Harvard newspaper doesn't want a 4th sorority
 

The editorial staff of The Crimson makes sweeping generalizations with no evidence to back it up.

For example, "Even though two of Harvard’s three current sororities are in the process of purchasing real estate in and around Harvard Square, that space will never be used to provide the tight-knit sense of community that naturally comes from shared living arrangements."

What does that even mean? The editors somehow know that having a chapter house won't provide community? Even though community comes naturally from having a chapter house?

I think they make some good points about the gender divisions in the Harvard community, but that is a broader conversation, and fixing that is not the aim of the sororities.

The author of the article references Pledged like it's a credible source. Between that and the traditional discord of the student paper and Greek Life at any university, I would take this with a Rocky Mountain sized grain of salt.

LOL

As if I wasn't already in disagreement with the premise of the article, citing "Pledged" completely lost me.

Is Title IX really the reason Harvard doesn't recognize these organizations? Aren't these people supposed to be at the vanguard of intelligence?

In an unrelated note, many schools have reported their largest ever numbers of PNMs this year, including my own University - I wonder what's causing this trend.

One question: I didn't know that NPC orgs would colonize on campuses where they aren't recognized by the university. Apparently I was mistaken. Anyone know of other examples.

I really wish the writer of that article had the guts to attach their name to it, rather than hiding behind "The Crimson Staff" as a byline.

Add to that the author's flubbing of Title IX and what it requires.

Proof that ignorance can survive even an Ivy League education.

Unless I am mistaken, Harvard will not recognize any organization which is a chapter of a larger organization.

In short, Harvard's stance (reading between the lines) is that it won't allow an organization which would divide a student's financial loyalty after graduation.

It's sad that the Crimson doesn't see that it's about the money and not social equity or anything of the sort.

DBB, the property being purchased won't be "shared living arrangements" because they'll only be used as lodges, not student housing. Everybody lives in the dorms.

This isn't right. Harvard recognizes many groups that are chapters of larger organizations -- Hillel, Amnesty International, College Republicans, etc. etc. However, all those organizations are not selective and they accept any undergraduate as a member. What they resist is (1) groups where outsiders are perceived to have a say in membership decisions and (2) single-gender groups.

I don't know if anyone has tried to start an Alpha Phi Omega chapter there, but it would be an interesting test case. My guess is that they would recognize it.
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I'm not familiar with such an arrangement. Are there other campuses that have this model? I thought even campuses with smaller lodges typically had a few women living there, usually officers.

In any case, thanks for the info. It was woefully unclear in the editorial.

From the Harvard Student Organization Handbook:


Local autonomy of the organization. The criterion for local autonomy shall be whether the College organization makes all policy decisions without obligation to any parent organization, national chapter, or charter.

From: http://isites.harvard.edu/icb/icb.do...icb.page365169

My chapter has a lodge with no housing. Everyone either lives in the dorms or off-campus. Three other sororities on campus have full houses, and one is completely unhoused.

So, it's like a living room and kitchen?

Not really. We have a formal meeting room and a chapter meeting room on the top floor, and then a kitchen, an office, and living space on the bottom floor. And then 3 bathrooms. It's a house, just without bedrooms.

That's kinda cool. I could see how this would be really appealing to some women, because not everyone wants to live in a chapter house, but not having a space at all is a bummer, too.

Princeton, I think.

I don't think that's NPC policy, just a recommendation. The prestige of a chapter at an Ivy (and the perceived financial health of the students and alumnae) outweighs the not-being-recognized factor. They're also aware of why the schools don't recognize Greeks - i.e. for bullshit PC reasons - not because of religious or risk mgmt factors.

Princeton is recognized.

Santa Clara University in California does not recognize groups.

Yes, yes, a million times yes. This is also why, with the exception of Dartmouth, when an Ivy chapter loses its charter, you know they did Something. Very. Bad.

Hmm...I'm not quite sure what you mean about Dartmouth being an exception. Could you elaborate?

Dartmouth made all of their chapters local--it wasn't a national decision, it was a University-wide decision. It's been discussed ad nauseam around here, by people much more articulate than I.

I'm speaking mainly of chapters where they lose a national charter...usually it's harder for an Ivy to lose their charter than it is for any other college. The cachet of having an Ivy chapter is very attractive for many groups.

Dartmouth actually has 3 local sororities and 5 national sororities, and there is a college ban on founding any new locals. The most recent colonizations have been KD and aphi.

Dartmouth does have a large number of local fraternities, but they do have some national ones as well.

In Canada many schools have NPC GLOs but have no recognition from the University, in fact, lack of recognition is the norm. For example, my university, WLU, has both a Delta Gamma and Alpha Phi chapter (as well as one local sorority) and we are not recognized. The same situation applies to almost every school in Canada (and most have NPC groups). In fact, only University of British Columbia has a formal campus IFC and Panhellenic in the traditional American sense.

Maybe this clarifies things?

Enjoy your discussion about Harvard...

Yeah the Zeta of Psi Upsilon is on Dartmouth, so can you please explain what you are talking about?

Okay. I don't know what things are like now, but Dartmouth's Greek system is a little different from the other Ivies...there was a push a few years ago (maybe longer ago than I think) to take away national charters. It was a University, and not an organizational, decision.

I think that was close to ten years ago now. Maybe more like 7, but it was a while ago either way. There was talk of an initiative to end non coed organizations, but it never passed. It got shot down super fast, though the administration at the time was rather attached to it. A lot of alum backlash against the administration because of it, too. I know Dartmouth has the largest greek system of the Ivies, and there certainly are more local fraternities (which is how Heorot and Bones Gate are greek letter organizations. There's also a KKK, but it predates the other one).

And we're a college, not a university. I know its semantics, but it matters to us.

Is it really larger than Cornell's or Penn's?

Sorry, I was speaking in terms of percentage of affiliated students (out of those that are eligible, obviously). I am sure Cornell has more greeks on total, because there are more students. Couldn't find the number, which is odd. Sorry, should have specified.

I know. It doesn't matter to me. :) I used "University" in this term to refer to the adminstration, since it is indeed a university and not a bachelor-level college. :)

I think Cornell has the largest Greek system in the Ivies; I also wouldn't be surprised if it had the largest Greek system in New York State.

For a good while NPCs were not recognized at Texas A&M. They existed, but were not fully recognized until about 1990 / 1991. A lot of the NPC chapters at A&M were colonized in the late '70s - early 80's.

What I remember was that the school had some "issue" with the NPCs so that is why they were not recognized for a long time. Then the NPCs and the campus worked out whatever "issue" it was and the chapters then were recognized by the University.

Oddly though the IFC fraternities were recognized by the University long before the NPCs.

Yep, I was about to post "Almost every Canadian chapter" when I saw this post.

Well that would explain my chapter doing so well :D I didn't know it was a national trend though, but it makes sense given the millennial generation attitude of being involved in teams and organizations, desire for networking opportunities, etc.

I don't know if it's quite that "across-the-board" in Canada. At my school (Manitoba), all three NPC chapters are recognised, as well as our Panhellenic. I think that it comes down to the specific university.

Also, I believe that in Canada (and possibly in the United States, but that would just be a guess), that many NPC groups were formed when they were recognized on campus, and then remained after they were de-recognised (if that is actually a word).

It's one of many reasons that Theta Chi is doing so well. :D

Re: Dartmouth, I think it's safe to say that the character of the Greek System at Dartmouth is different than the rest of the Ivies, or really, many other universities.

Large numbers of PNMs are being reported by two of the fraternities at Harvard, too:

http://www.thecrimson.com/article/20...-number-frats/

From what people have said about Canada Greek life on here, that also falls into "bullshit PC reasons" as to why they're not recognized.

Yes, with the chapters I used to work with in Canada, it is solely because GLOs discriminate re: gender so they cannot be recognized by their Universities. I know of one that gets around it for some things by having a "Friends of Panhellenic Sororities" organization that anybody can join if they want to. Then the Friends of Panhellenic Sororities can use campus facilities for recruitment, etc. The Universities aren't against them, per se, they just can't officially recognize them due to the campus rules for recognized orgs.

And honestly I don't see this as being PC bullshit. That's their standard and they abide by it. It's not about political correctness (a vastly overused term) at all, it's about equality from the Canadian perspective.

Right, and I suppose their sports teams are all co-ed? And they don't discriminate against guys in wheelchairs who want to star on the football team?

Hahahahaha, it's only 8am but this made my day :D Seriously though, we don't have a men's soccer team (only women's) because there isn't a women's football team. So most teams aren't co-ed, but the ratio of all female to all male teams must be equal.

Good thing they don't require an even ratio of sororities and fraternities, or more guys would have to make nice with eachother instead of bringing a new fraternity to campus.