Recruiting Another Fraternity's Pledge
 

So there was this Freshman guy (let's call him "Nick") who I started becoming very close friends with last semester. He was very accomplished in High School, and he is incredibly driven to be successful in college. Great GPA, well-dressed and groomed, and a gentlemen with the ladies. He introduced me to his less-impressive, but still very nice roommate and childhood friend (let's call him "Will"), and I decided to actively Recruit both of them for Spring Recruitment.

After establishing a good relationship with these guys and inviting them to hang out with the Fraternity, they started asking about joining. I explained everything to them, and I started introducing them to Brothers, "This is ________ and __________ they're interested in pledging next semester." I thought I had it in the bag.

Now, I was always much closer with Nick than I was with Will. I considered Will to be my friend, but I just didn't have as good of a relationship with him. After one of the SG meetings, I start talking to Nick about the Recruitment events, and he tells me that he's not sure if he's pledging my Fraternity after all.

Will was planning on pledging a different Fraternity, and Nick was worried that if he joined mine, it would hurt their friendship. Furthermore, he kind of liked the Fraternity that Will was interested in, and could see himself joining.

He asked me what I thought about all of it, and I told him (perhaps not accurate advice, but it was how I felt, and it is still how I feel) "If you two end up joining a different Fraternity, you will probably be friendly with him, but you probably won't be his best friend, at least while you are both in college" I tried to qualify it any way I could with the "college is a place to make new friends" and "Maybe we could try and convince Will to still pledge [my fraternity]?". I could tell he was still torn about the whole situation, and he promised that he would come out to all of our Rush events with Will if he could, but I knew that my "sure things" were not guaranteed any more.

In the end, Will pledged a different Fraternity, and (very reluctantly) Nick went with him. I really had my heart set on this guy, but I can't blame him for making his decision.

Then a couple of days ago, Will and I see each other on-campus, and he asks if we can talk. He says he's having second-thoughts about the Fraternity he pledged. He starts telling me about how he doesn't think he fits in, he doesn't think the guys in the Fraternity are very nice, and he really doesn't like his "pledge name" that he got because he's Asian. He tells me that he picked this Fraternity because he thought they were the "Frattiest" and they threw the best parties, but now realizes that he may have made a mistake. He wasn't completely set on dropping out right there and then, but he asked if there was any way he could still accept his bid to my Fraternity.

I know if Will ends up quitting, Nick will almost-definitely follow. It's not against any Recruitment rule to depledge one Fraternity to join another, and it's (oddly) not against any rule to actively Recruit someone from another Fraternity, but I know I would feel shitty doing it. If the tables were turned, I would feel terrible if someone stole two of the pledges from my Chapter, especially if my Chapter was struggling for membership in the same way theirs is right now.

I don't know what to do in this situation. What do you guys think? Is it really wrong to pursue someone who's pledging another Fraternity, even if he might not be happy with it?

Who is Matt?

I don't know how Will turned into Matt but whatever. :confused: The point is that the one you're less close to of the two is the one who said all this. Mmmmmmkay.

Breaking it down:

Matt's a shallow jerk who pledged a group just because of the parties and status, not because he actually liked the brothers or bothered to figure out whether they actually liked him.

Nick's a pussy who can't do anything on his own, even when he's been given tons of encouragement to do so.

Consider yourself lucky that you are not stuck with either one.

I think you're over thinking it, on the individual level, do you really think this guy would be happier with you guys?

On the org level, what if it was your fraternity that had a pledge "poached." What would your reaction be? Would you be pissed and vow to prank revenge the other fraternity forever? Would you shrug and get over it because obviously that guy didn't want to be in your fraternity anyway? (And be honest, no "That wouldn't happen because we're awesome") You state you'd feel bad, but that's not enough.

If you think the guy would be happier with you guys, and you would NOT flip out if the same happened to you then vote and present him with the option. Alternatively make a decision and wait to see if he drops. If he drops and then you bid him rather than offering him the bid so he'll drop, you're not poaching in the same way as long as you don't promise him the bid should he quit.

Don't worry about "Nick" in this picture unless he DOES quit and asks you the same question. Don't base your answer on Matt on the assumption that you'll get Nick too. And I'd recommend sending something to the other fraternity stating that you were approached, not the other way around.

/just my 2 cents.

As some one just pointed out to me....do guys call it recruitment?

Hmm.. good point. Did I just get hooked?

But it could be a school thing.

Aw, c'mon, we've all done stupid things at the age of 18.

I think, though, that the OP should not "poach" members. When someone comes on here and asks if they should drop out, we ALWAYS tell them to stick it out and see, that having second thoughts is natural, that they should really put in as much effort as possible to get what they want from their org, etc.

I think the same applies here. The NM's should really give it their best chance, and they can't do that if they are wondering "what if", and the OP is promising a spot on the other side of the fence.

It's not completely unheard of.

Just checking. We've had so many trolls lately that the word raised some red flags to a few GCers.

Yeah, some schools are really dickish about it and actually penalize you for saying rush, pledge etc.

http://www.angryrobotsblog.com/wp-co...hi-im-mat1.jpg

That's all the contribution for which I have the energy. *yawn*

Whoops. I accidentally started posting the guy's real name. Pretty hard trying to change it now, but I doubt he's ever going to see this any time soon.

Member poaching is a dick move regardless of circumstances in my book. Even if the guy drops and then you bid him there'll be people in his old organization who'll think your org had something to do with it, which'll cause tension between y'all.

Mine is one of them. You can even get punished for posting it on Facebook. I have been conditioned against saying it, but fortunately they can't find me on this website: RUSH RUSH RUSH RUSH RUSH RUSH

I am a fairly frequent GCer, but I wanted to respect the privacy of the people in the story and the other Chapter, so I made this fake profile. If you're still doubting me I would be more than happy to send you a PM.

^^^You want to respect their privacy but started posting their real names halfway through?

I'm not even gonna say it.

I don't know your group's rules, but in mine, once someone rejects a bid (I'm assuming you gave these guys bids since you liked them so much), they have to be re-issued (and re-voted) a bid by the chapter. Membership selection is private, obviously, so I don't know what your group does. Have you discussed this with your chapter yet?

On my campus, it would cause a lot of drama if a pledge from one group and then immediately start pledging another. Your group could get the moniker of not being able to get their own guys so they have to steal pledges. On my campus, these sort of rumors linger for a long time. (Even more so if your group has had any recent membership struggles, "xyz needs to steal pledges just to survive")

If Nick can't handle the first few days of the pledging would he be able to handle yours? There were guys who I thought were assholes when I pledged, but ended up becoming really good friends with.

Personally, if I was in your chapter and you presented this situation, I'd vehemently take the no-bid stance. The guys already proved they're wishy-washy and joined for superficial reasons. They'll probably end up being members who occasionally show-up or members who quit a year or less after initiation.

Unless you're really hurting for members (and don't care about your reputation), I'd pass. Too much drama potential, no guarantee they'll be stellar members.

Personally I think you just have a big rush-crush still and are trying to convince yourself you can still get these guys. Let it go.

I'd say take them, but make sure your chapter can stand up to the backlash that comes with that. If you guys can't its a no go

Does the OP seem to be interested in "Nick" for a little more than a brother?

I really felt like I was reading something written by a girl about this guy she was crushing on. I dunno - that's the vibe I got, because guys just usually aren't that "into" their rushees.

^This. Guys have switched from one fraternity to another as pledges on my campus, usually after being dropped and it doesn't cause that much drama, but I can very easily see how it could on some campuses. If it's worth it to your chapter to possibly receive some bad publicity from the other chapters on campus, do it. If not, don't.

#1 - If "Will" was given a bid to ABC, decides he made a mistake and wants to depledge, I don't believe the OP's organization can "re-bid"/bid him until next semester. At least that's how IFC worked on my campus.

#2- Have you talked to the officers/other members of your chapter? Are they willing to give "Will" a 2nd chance? He'll be totally screwed if he drops ABC to join EFG and EFG says, "You passed on us, we'll pass on you." You'll feel like a total d*** after encouraging him to drop his current group and then your group doesn't bid him.

#3 - Depending on the campus, for guys depledging one group and then pledging another group the next semester usually isn't that big of a deal. Off the top of my head, I can think of 2 of my chapter brothers who pledged other groups and realized that they made a mistake. Famously, David Letterman pledged Sig Ep at Ball State, then depledged and pledged Sigma Chi the next semester. I think Sig Ep got over it.

Overall, I think the "next semester" aspect is important. If they drop now and join your group, that's probably bad news. I would think the best answer you could give them is "you are welcome to rush again next semester, and I can't promise you anything, but I would personally pull for you".

Yeah, as soon as he slipped and said "Matt," I knew exactly who he was talking about.

Oh hush. :rolleyes: :p Doesn't everyone always claim "Leave out details, that person might be reading this board?" And a few times, it happened (and were hilarious when those people posted in the thread).

Just tell them to rush next semester when they are mentally ready. If they still wants to join, let them. It's fair game in the brand new semester in my book.

I'm with you on this one.

I also agree. Most guys would just let it go.

Eh, I think that's a little unfair. I've seen similar posts from girls about rush crushes. I think he's convinced himself how great of guys they are and hasn't looked objectively at the situation.

Yeah most guys would let it go, but clearly he hasn't. I wouldn't read anything more into it than rush crush.

Herein lies the distinction.

Also, that's assuming this poster is for realz to begin with, which I'm not ready to do yet.

Eh, I guess we just see this from a different perspective. I think it's kind of an unfair double standard. I've seen worse from girls here and it was viewed as absolutely fine, but if it's a guy it has hints of some homo-erotic lust?

I mean, I definitely agree it's bordering on obsession with the OP. I just don't think it's any different than a girl obsessing over her rush crush.

Then again I'm a guy and never experienced any kind of rush crushing, so what do I know? :D

*insert debate about gender roles in society here*

First, take advice from NPCers with a grain of salt. The same rules do NOT apply with sororities.

Rush is really every man for himself. You can poach pledges until their initiates, and really, if anyone wants to bitch or moan about it, they shouldn't let their kids have reasons to drop.

If you think you can get this kid to pledge y'all, and think he's worth the effort, go for it.

I sincerely apologize for the underlying homo-eroticism in my post. Trust me, you're not the first person to accuse me of being "gay" for a PNM.

During Bid Discussion, we often set ground-rules for discussion. One of the rules that always seems to make the board is "No dick-sucking". As you could imagine "dick-sucking" is any overly positive statement about a PNM (especially those about physical appearance and/or athletic ability).

Is there something I can do to prove to you I am a real (not gay) Fraternity guy at a real University?

PS: Everyone knows only girls are the only ones who make fake posts.

First of all, it was only one of the guy's real names...

And second of all, it's not like I did it on purpose. I got really into the story-telling, and I started posting the dude's real name. I tried nuking the thread, but it turns out I can't do that (or at least I don't know how to).

I figure the guy probably isn't going to check this forum ever, and even if he does, it will probably be so far in the future he probably won't care/won't be able to find it.

No, the same rules DO apply for sororities if the rushees in question are wishy washy or lame, which these two dudes are. The way he's described this pair I don't think either of them are worth it, even if it doesn't cause campus drama. It's not about OMG we will offend the other group, although at some campuses that would be a big deal. It's about the guys themselves. One of them can't go anywhere without holding onto his BFF's dick, and the other one is boo hooing and wants to quit because of his nickname. LAAAAAAAAAME

^Jesus Christ.

I think that's a little unnecessarily harsh. If you're at a school where greek life doesn't have much attention, there are several guys who go through recruitment just because their roommate/floormate/friend is going through and would be perfectly fine throughout college without going greek. From my impression, the friend was never "omg i'm going greek!" but rather "eh, if you go greek I probably will."

I do think people are being overly harsh to the OP. Reverse the situation and if it was a girl coming to GC asking for advice, I don't think people would be replying as harsh and would rather be singing Panhellenic kumbaya. We also wouldn't be saying her friend would be holding her BFF's clit, would we?

You're making an awfully big assumption based on a very limited set of facts. Note that I did say that this should only be attempted if the individual in question is worth having as a member. You nor I know that.

Yes we would. We'd probably say tit rather than clit, though (thinking of the logistics of that).

No shit. Every post in this forum, other than the song name game thread, is based on a very limited set of facts. From the way I read this, these two guys don't seem worth it. YMMV. I mean, this is kind of like making a pro and con list for a decision in a very sensible and factual manner, and the cons win out anyway because you know in your heart it's right. If he can read all this stuff and he STILL thinks these guys are worth it, then maybe they are. But if he's in rush-crush land, he probably needs to hear the opposing view.