Who's at the bottom now?
 

Sometimes, in weaker moments, we crow when we see other
groups stumble.
We gloat when we note the bottom house is about to fold..
BUT...
when that chapter folds, who takes its place?
who becomes the weenies of the campus now?
and when that group fails, then who?
The only thing keeping some of us alive on campus at some
places is that job the non-Greek Director of Student Activities
is threatened if we go off campus....
And our anti-Greek students revel in the failure of
another chapter. We should be bringing on new groups
NOW...to increase our clout, not belittling the less fortunate.
We Greeks have different histories, albeit all with glory.
Think about it. If I'd gone somewhere else I might have
been an SAE or a Pike or a Sig instead of a Teke...they
are all good outfits with good intentions. Each time a
chapter folds, a part of you dies, too. Give that some thought.
Do not let this happen. Save a little time to hug each other,
and remember, what GDI ever comes back to his alma mater
and proudly points...this was MY dorm....Plan a party with another house, share ideas...the IFC originally was to HELP
the dues-paying chapters, not penalize them (the fewer the
rules the better and deferred rush is anathema to brotherhood)
Everybody is watching us...Wear your clean underwear. From
an old (TKE) alum who loved it all....Now go do even better!

I wish you would repost this in the Greek Life forum so that everyone would see it! I know of a Greek system where a couple of groups couldn't be bothered by several GLOs folding and suddenly they have realized that when the "weenie" chapter folds, as it's almost certain to within the year, they are in line to be the next ones--whereas, several years back, they were firmly implanted in the middle.

Erik, you are 100% right. We all need to hang together or we will all hang separately!!

Mods, could you move this to the Greek Life forum so everyone is sure to see it?

You guys are right, it seems like others gloat in your pain. When I brought my sorority to my campus NPC and NPHC gave me a really hard time. They were like, "Why does our school need another Greek organization, what is wrong with the ones we have." Some of the current Greeks were like, well now XYZ is not on the bottom anymore. I was really upset, but oh well. I think it takes a lot of time, commitment, and dedication to build up a new chapter on your own. People who have just been able to Rush and pledge XYZ organization don't seem to understand that.

This is great! It could also be directed at other types of organizations, even such as the American Bar Association, American Medical Association, etc.

After all, if so-n-so was in the top 5% percentile, somebody had to be in the bottom 5%. ;)

This was in my forum and moved it over here at the request of posters
enjoy

This is so timely. My daughter was talking about this very subject last night. She used an example of an article in the Reville. They interviewed a sorority that placed in the Homecoming competition. Rather than extol the system they chose the low road and were quoted as how theirs was "the best" and similar statements throughout the article. So rather than cover the Greek events and the participants, it basically became an interview for one group. There is nothing wrong in the world with pumping up your org. However, she felt every opportunity to shed a positive light on the system should be the objective.

Like they say, a chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

I know exactly where Erik comes from! While his Fraternity is closed at mey Alma Mater, I felt a very big loss when they left. I had many Great Friends in the TEKE house as they backed me on getting on campus when 2 houses were trying to come on and only one would be alllowed!

Everytime i hear of a Chapter closing on a campus, I cringe and have a tear in my eyes!

Talk about minoritys, we in the Greek World are one of the biggest!:(
I have always been and have told many young men going to college, If you dont go LXA, then please go Greek!

We all in the Greek World HATE to see some of the things that are happening today and Remember, We are the Ones Who Can Change It! :)

Bless ALL Of My Greek Brothers and Sisters during this Holiday Season and on past that period of time!:D

Yours Interfraternally with Peace And Love,

BUMP.

It's definitely time to bump this one back up to the top.

*applaud*


I can not agree more.

I completely agree!!!

One thing I've noticed on my own campus though that I think should be addressed is relationships between fraternities and sororities. For example... at one time on my campus ABC fraternity and XYZ sorority were practically inseparable (primarily because half of one chapter was dating half of the other). At some point along the way, ABC dwindled in size a bit due from what I understand to circumstances largely outside of their control. Instead of helping ABC pick its numbers back up and supporting them as they had been in the past, XYZ sorority instead decided to abandon ABC fraternity to hang out with DEF and GHI fraternities instead. As if that were bad enough, XYZ sorority has been heard to speak less than favorably about ABC which makes life that much more difficult for ABC in terms of them bringing up their numbers. :rolleyes: Their chapter still has some good guys in it; I'm friends with a lot of them. They're just small right now is all, but they actually are more gentlemanly than most others on campus. I really feel sorry for those guys, but what can you do? Most members of most of the sororities on my campus are VERY materialistic -- whichever fraternity has the largest roster and largest budget is their favorite regardless of the quality or character of the individuals in the fraternity in question. Which fraternity they consider "worthy" of their attention could change each year if not each term. Anyone else see this happen?:confused:

a real dilemma
 

One of the reasons sororities are disliked so much in many circles is precisely what our Phi Alpha friend from SAE has portrayed--that ABC sorority dumped the once close alliance
with DEF fraternity when they dwindled in numbers. It is sheer
opportunism and it is yet encouraged by their alumnae, too.
I have never in my forty plus years seen a sorority go to the aid
of a once-proud but tripped fraternity. We simply must live with
this, and the females will be pissed at me for writing this, but
it is true on many campuses.
SAE...a top-flight outfit, and if sororities had been aware of it,
Noble Leslie DeVotie should have never been allowed to step
off that gangplank. But Miss Lucy did help with the minutes of
it all. We all need the sororities, so let us try to make the best
of it. I'll the Tekes to help anyone who stumbles, as when one
folds their tent, like I said 'Who's on the bottom now?"
Ladies, I speak not with forked tongue, either....We need you, and welcome your help, if you will, please...

I would just like to say it happens both ways. My biological sister's chapter use to hang out a lot with a fraternity that was weaker. They were great guys and total gentlemen and that's why the girls hung out there. A lot of the girls helped with rush and gave their opinion about different guys they were thinking about signing. They hung out at the summer rush parties (the boys here don't have formal rush) did homecoming with them the first year this fraternity decided to do it. This sorority has won homecoming (a huge deal on our campus-it's the biggest in the nation) twice in a row so they had plenty of other choices.

This fraternity is now one of the largest on campus and they haven't done a thing with my sister's chapter in 2 years. You would think these guys would return the favor by encouraging their girl friends and sisters to take a serious look at ABC during rush. Instead, they have their heads so far up the a$$es of an elite sorority that they don't even recognize anyone that isn't in that house.

So I don't really want to hear that girls are like that. Guys are just as bad.

moving on....
 

Just an example. You don't have to be rude and try to overlook it.

Hmmmm-really!?!?

let us work together, then
 

I did not expect a perfumed response to my tirade in taking the
SAE's side.
And, with this vast an audience, one can find those who will agree, those who will not, fruitcakes and whatever.
SO...perhaps we can work together to expunge this lamentable
impasse....
GO GREEK.........love, Uncle Erik of Denver

'

So, so true. A certain fraternity here rechartered about five years ago (Erik might know to which one I am referring). We have always been friends with these guys. Even though they were a bit smaller, we had exchanges with them because they were fun and excited to do stuff with us. A lot of girls in my chapter hung out there during rush and helped out. They had a date party early in the semester, and our girls set up all the guys without dates.

All of the sudden, I am hearing them refer to us as a "back-up house." As in, if no other sorority will hang out with them, they will call us. You know what? They always do.

OO FUNNY
 

This can be so true! When We were a local, no and I mean NO SOROity would do a run out with us! Well except the ADP which were not stroing on campus!

Several Brothers marrried AGD, some ADP, a Tri S was our first Sweetheart, and now, many Brothers daughters join SSS and it seems that the Chapter always does homecoming with the ASA! Go figure!

Some Days You are the Dog and other Days You are the FIRE PLUG! Never forget the ones that helped you the most, You will get bit in the BUTT! :D

THE BICYCLE WHEEL OF LIFE ALWAYS KEEPS TURNING!:)

More to come!;)

greek girlie:
Let me tell you that the SAME thing happened on my campus. A fraternity on our campus was still surviving only b/c their alums were huge donators to our college. They were the first fraternity that I hung out at when I came to school. And wouldn't you know that the Kappa Delts hung out there too! ;)

Even though they were small and looked at as "geeks", I loved them! I always said, "I could lay here screaming for sex, drunk as a skunk, then pass out...these guys would put a blanket on me and make sure I was safe."

Well, thanks to the KDs rushing hard for them, as well as the freshman girls I knew, their numbers increased. They started getting a very good mix of guys in the house....

and do they hang out with the KDs anymore?

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They completely dropped us from their social schedule, even informally. Most of them now have gfs in a more "elite" sorority, and these guys actively rush against us! I could understand if they rushed women more toward their gfs' sorority....but they don't have to say nasty things about us!

Grrr.....ok, my anger is now easing out of my body. I just had to get that out!! :D

bump

Another good one to bump.

I can really identify with this.... A couple of chapters who were recently ranked higher than us lost a lot of members due to seperate hazing incedents (due to interventions by their respective HQ's).

In the past these two fraternities have committed many rush violations against us.. ie. having a member from THEIR house escort their potential new associates through OUR house (ballsey but none of us recognized them at the time).

Now it's kind of hard to know what to do or how they should be treated because of their past treatment of us....

I basically figure to give them a clean slate is fair... But others in my house don't feel the same.

If everyone would just get along and follow the rules that they approved in IFC we wouldn't have these types of issues..

BUMP!

just bumping this thread up.....

Thank you for making that point. A few of the other sorority women on my campus could do well to read it. We were down to four women first term of last year. [1300 person liberal arts school; 10% Greek participation; 5 IFC (housed), 3 NPC (unhoused), 2 "Professional" groups (unhoused); NPC chapter total is 50, the other two are at 39 and 45; lots of anti-Greek sentiment on campus.] For deferred Recruitment second term, the other chapters held it back... but just a little. There was still lots and lots of dirty rushing... i.e. "suicide us and we'll give you a COB bid." The sad thing is that it worked. We did have a good Recruitment (for us, the best we'd had in years, but nowhere as good as the others), and if we have another one this year we should be out of the red. However, I don't think that any of them would care if we folded. I doubt that any of them would notice. The fraternities on campus, even the small ones who are struggling themselves, only care to hang out with the other two groups. The two "professional" groups do a lot of trash-talking to freshmen about our system... i.e. "Oh, well, we're not a *social* sorority..." even though we've got better grades and more philanthropic involvement than they do. They schedule their recruitment events at the exact same time as all of our Recruitment parties and go out of their way to discourage women from being involved in both their organization and an NPC or IFC group. As if our NPC/IFC groups' trying to kill each other weren't enough... Grr... sorry, I'm just a little bitter here.

I dont feel bad when a TKE chapter closes. They took it upon themselves to overexpand and start chapters at schools that didn't have room for additional organizations.
What do they expect?

The number of students interested in pledging is dropping yet TKE feels the need to start more chapters.

If you are on a campus with 50 fraternities and 5 new fraternities start up, it will hurt your rush numbers but it wont kill you. On the other hand if you are at a small school with 4 fraternities and 4 new fraternities start up their is a good chance that some of the existing fraternites will die out and all will suffer.

madmax...
 

dude, it sounds like you are taking this one personally.

not that I agree with that expansion philosophy, but there are PLENTY of groups that have made messed up expansion choices.

There was a fraternity we use to mix with. One year they had scheduled a mixer with us but then called back and said they had something to do that night. Well we found out it was a mixer with another sorority. We were pissed!!!!! That fraternity's rep was neither strong nor weak just there. We didn't care we thought they were cool guys. As our reputation grew better and better (actually in one year our rep made leaps IMO) the next year they asked us to mix with them-at the meeting when the social chair brought it up for a vote-we all just laughed-there was no way in hell we were going to give them a second chance. I don't think we ever mixed with them again.

Nothing wrong with starting chapters. TKE IHQ is working hard to re open many chapters that had to close for one reason or another. From what I have seen lately they don't start many "new" chapters that often but I guess thats because we are allready at alot of schools. I don't take it personally that you don't care if a TKE chapter closes because your not a TKE. I wouldn't care if your chapter closed either. It is sad to see fellow greek losing a chapter though.

chapter closures
 

it is rather sophomoric to state "I don't care whether your chapter closes or not" With such a small percentage of Greeks
on many campi, there is a lot of room for all of us. This infighting is lamentable. TKE has, admittedly, led the crowd in
extension, and the losses have been generally due to lack of
servicing or lack of alumni support.
The pissing contests amongst ourselves have been a sight to
behold.
Rarely do any of us go on to campuses where we simply displa ce a failed chapter. To state that is simply myopic.
why not get along instead of making simplistic statements like
"I don't care..."
The large majority of new charterings have been revivals. And,
t his will continue. Get over the pettiness, please.

madmax--

if the campus has a good Greek Advisor, then expansion shouldn't happen until all fraternities or sororities are at or near total. I don't know what fraternity expansion is like, but with NPC, that's the rule.

And as for not caring, well, let's say your chapter could be next, so be careful of the karma!

Erik, super post!!!

Once again, my main man E C comes through in one of his lucid moments! It is hard at our ages.:D

It is true, that I lament each time a Chapter closes whether it be LXA or anyother Greek Organization.

While yes there are minoritys on here as you can tell, lumped together, we are the smallest Minority on each and every campus.

There should be competition between Greeks on campus but not fighting!!!!!:mad:

PSU called the LXA and SPE chapters together and told them in no uncertain terms, get it together or be gone!

That should say it all right there!

I do not love znteke, KS RC, SigXCard, etal as Brothers but care for them as they are members of the finest Greek Organizations and have respect for them as InterFraternal Brothers who I would be proud to stand next to!

Some of the members who are Actives in their respective Chapters need to figure out what is going on and find a way to get along on campus and stay there or be gone. What is gained then?.

Well I am done!;)

--another point
 

But if we wait 'til the bottom ones rise to break-even level we may wait 'til hell freezes over. Sororities are a good example, and idiot advisers say..well, XYZ is weak and we cannot let on
anyone else until they get strong. Well, troops, get ready for a
long wait as many who'd join a new group will remain GDIs
forever rather than pledge a hogger outfit. ..and the Pi Phis are
at 250 girls....MY POINT...I recall as a fielder visiting a minor school in S Dakota, asking the Dean for permission to come on, had men, had alums, had board, had advisor, etc. He ref used, saying, well, the swig taws are weak so we cannot let
someone else on until they get strong. This four chapter school is still waiting...40 years later..'cept it is now a school with two chapters...and both of them are weak.
What I am saying is that some systems are dying because the
bottom rung will not rise, and many would rather not pledge than
join a weenie group. Take a look at your campus. Has the % of
Greeks slipped? W hy? If there are several chapters over 100
and a few under 30, why? And why is it they let's say, let Pike
on...and they get 120 men in two weeks? The weak sist ers are eatin' bon bons in the meantime, wonderin ' what the H happened...and the Greek advisor is nowhere to be found...
Fellow GREEKS...now is the time to expand, to have your system grow. The statement that the interest is not there is pure
BULLSHIT...pehaps not as we are now, but TRUE FRATERNIT Y
will prevail. Expand your systems. The weenies will either die or improve, but in the meantime your clout and pride'll grow !

I have a question for those of you that belong to national organizations.

How do you feel when a local fraternity or sorority on your campus (if it is in existence) closes. Do you still feel somewhat down and depressed?

I guess I'm just wondering because we have seen MANY nationals close on our campus just in the last few years, but it's funny that not a lot of the nationals that are left consider us a "true greek organization" because we are local and not national. Though there could be some ill feelings because we are a local that broke off a national and have been in the longest existence out of all the greek orgs on campus. We do also almost double the size of the next leading fraternity (number wise) and we are the most active out of chapters, imho. We do a crazy amount of philanthropy events and spend countless hours helping out at university day care centers and whatnot. Sadly, we aren't the best chapter speaking in terms of grades/gpa.

Your thoughts? Opinions? Views?

I just found out that the one local sorority at my alma mater died out last year. I think it's sad because they did a lot of good both on campus and off philanthropy-wise. They represented Greeks fairly well, and it's a shame that they had to close due to a lack of interest. Hopefully, they'll be able to reorganize themselves and get back on track again.

Personally, I think that I would be saddened to hear of any chapter closing, be it local or national. The only time that I am not upset to see one go is when the chapter has not represented Greeks in a favorable light. Some closings are good because they "weed out" groups that cause problems and bad publicity for the Greek system, and give the organization a chance to start anew in a few years with (hopefully) a more responsible group of members.

Just to let you know-
 

edited to say "Damasa this ones for you!"
I'm not about to enter any discussions for the time being that are
too controversial. However, if someone like you is any reflection of your entire GLO-be it local or national, it MUST be one heck of a great group of guys. That being said, if you are close knit, if you have happiness in your life all you may be missing is a network for business assoc. Believe me, that is a very real benefit. Somehow, I think you will do just fine without said network. I know it's an "internet assessment", but you needn't be shy about you intuitive ability, intelligence or compassion. It shines through in your posts, and that's something you can't keep "real" 100% of the time!
JAM

I agree with what Erik P. said. You cannot wait for a chapter to get stronger before allowing a new group on campus. Look at the schools that have great systems. Not only do they have all kinds of housing and programming and great things to do, they have a large selection of different orgs on campus. If an org is not cutting it in terms of recruitment, then they will probably never get any better, because people will not join them. And if that org is the only choice around then they will not go greek. Period.
Another point about allowing new groups on campus is that is a way I argue away accusations of elitism. If no group on campus does not take you, then get a few friends together and start a new one. Problem solved.

OK, I can agree that sometimes weaker chapters won't get larger, but that's not the point. You see, in a true greek community, the SYSTEM would want everyone to succeed. And the members of the system would help each other succeed. I know maybe that's completely idealistic and unrealistic, but in the true sense of a greek community, that's the way it should be.

Also, say there is a group that is the "dweebs", are you telling me there aren't other like minded folks on campus to join their group? If fraternities and sororities all had the same types of people and the same characteristics, what would be the point of having 20, when just one would work?

I guess my feeling is you don't just go buy a new car every time you run low on gas, so why get a new fraternity just because the older one is running low? Get students to go greek, and your system will be better off, no matter WHERE they go!

I totally agree with the problem with forcing all existing chapters to be "strong" or "above quota in numbers" before allowing another chapter to colonized.

I have never understood why my campus, which is 65% female, only has 6 sororities. And the "newest" chapter was brought on in 1989 - the other 5 chapters were the original ones colonized when the system began in 1968!
Several years ago a group of girls tried to start a local organization in an effort to woo a national sponsor as a colony, but were shot down by the Panhellenic Council and Greek Advisor. This group lasted for about a year and a half before merging with an existing national sorority here on campus...and surprize surprize, that sorority improved 100% because of it!

In the meantime, we have had incredible growth of the fraternity system - going from 5 chapters to 9 chapters over the last 5-6 years!

I too mourn every time a chapter is closed and have never understood the petty gloating that many chapters display when their rivals falter. Why do we take so much pleasure in killing each other off when there is already so much danger and threats coming from OUTSIDE the Greek system?