Hazing
 

I AM A CHAPTER ADVISOR. I WISH I COULD GIVE THE CHAPTER - BUT SINCE WE HAZE, WE CAN NOT RISK HAVING A WELL MEANING BUT ILL-INTENTIONED FRATER NOTIFY NATIONALS.

I AM A FIRM BELIVER IN HAZING. I WENT TO WAR IN SAUDI AND THEN DID COLLEGE AND PLEDGED TKE. WE HAD HAZING BUT I DID NOT FEEL CHALLENGED ENOUGH.

I BECAME PLEDGEMASTER AND UPPED THE INTENSITY OF THE PLEDGE PROGRAM. WE HAD MORE PEOPLE RUSH - BECAUSE OF THE REPUTATION.

AFTER MY GRADUATION - I WAS ABLE TO TAKE SOME MONEY THAT I INVESTED AND BUY A SMALL MACHINE SHOP. I STAYED AT MY ALMA MATER AND ADVISED THE CHAPTER. THE PLEDGE PROGRAM HAS BEEN REFINED, AND NOW WE TAKE IT TO A VERY INTENSE LEVEL.

OUR PLEDGES ENDURE SLEEP DEPRIVATION (4 HOURS A NIGHT) UNTIL ZEBRA WEEK. THIS IS A WEEK OF NO SLEEP, ONE MRE A DAY TO EAT. NIGHTS ARE SPENT IN THE CRAWL SPACE OF THE HOUSE. BTW, WE MONTOR THEM IN CLASSES AS WELL. IF THEY ARE CAUGHT SLEEPING IN A CLASS - THEY ARE KICKED OUT OF THE PROGRAM.

ONLY ABOUT 20% OF OUR PLEDGES MAKE IT THROUGH THE PROGRAM. I AM PROUD OF THAT. OUR PLEDGES KNOW THAT AFTER 7 WEEKS, THEY WILL HAVE EARNED THE LETTERS OF TAU KAPPA EPSILON.

I POST THIS BECAUSE I AM CONCERNED THAT TAU KAPPA ESPILON IS BECOMING A CLUB, WHERE PLEDGES WRITE A CHECK, WEAR A PIN, AND BECOME FRATERS. THAT'S NOT THE FRATERNITY I PLEDGED. SO I'M CURIOUS ABOUT HOW OTHERS FEEL ABOUT THIS TOPIC.

TEKEISSTRONG.

Misguided
 

I am a former chapter adviser. I am not one now because there
is no chapter nearby. I have been active off and on for over forty
years. While I admire your loyalty and salute your dedication, I
would kick your ass--lovingly--and would say you were misguided. Hazing for brotherhood is like fucking for chastity.
There are so many other things we can do to evoke fraternalism.
No, frater, think it over. You are denying many good men who
want to be one man the chance. That is selfish. Shame.
YITB, Erik P Conard--Denver alumni chapter

Hazing is so iffy these days. Under my schools regulations having the pledeges learn the TKE history or even calling them pledges is hazing.

Re: Hazing
 

I am absolutely appaled that this would come from a chapter advisor. Does it make you feel good that you can get guys at least 6 years your junior to fear you? That you can take advantage of vulnerable freshmen trying to figure out what to do with their newfound independance? Sad, very, very sad.

frater,

a few questions for you,

how does lack of sleep make better fraters?

how does bullying and intimidating the members make them better fraters?

should there be a pledge period? absolutely. should it be difficult, sure. you wanna cut 80% of your pledges, that's fine with me, be picky, be selective. but how does hazing them make them better people?

i am firm believer in a pledge period that is difficult, the guys gotta come together through this, learn about TKE, and learn how to become men. but there are ways to do that without hazing them. if you want some examples, then feel free to pm me. pledgeing should be an adventure, not a terror.

just my 2 cents

Your chapter is hopefully the only one like yours. If you so confident in your beliefs and lawyers why don't you tell me your chapter name?
YITB,
Brandon

Hazing....is pointless.

I see no point in degrading other humans for any reason.

TEKEISSTRONG,

Keep it up. I'm sure you'll be very proud of your former chapter.

Your thoughts on hazing......
 

Dear "Tekeisstrong"

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Unfortunately, not only do I disagree with you, but I have forwarded your comments to TKE HQ in Indianapolis. I would like to point out that hazing is not only against the International Constitution and ByLaws, but it is also ILLEGAL, and diametrically opposed to everything TKE stands for.

Accordingly, I've requested a full investigation into this matter, and alerted various officials of the International Fraternity. I pray to God that no one gets hurt in the meantime. You should be ashamed of yourself for setting such a bad example for the rest of us.

Whew....
 

Thank god no one else agreed with the writer of this post. I was beginning to be afraid of our future!

Thanks all for speaking up!

YITB,

Earl

hazing
 

Dear Frater,

My chapter deals with your kind alot. I totally understand that your men earn respect. Yours is a case rarely heard of. While my chapter is not known on campus for hazing, we still rank in the top 3 for rush success, and we are only a colony. Because I love being a TKE, i often contact other chapters and see how they run things. While my chapter and I do not pass judgement, there are many chapters that try to tell us to haze really bad, to make the brothers earn it. We look down on those chapters. Historically, if you check the statistics, chapters that have large reports of hazing have a tendency to die out, because of the small recruitment rate. It is a fact of life...if you do something wrong...you will get caught eventually. Frater out of total respect of our brotherhood i think you should ask yourself...Would you rather have a chapter that was big on hazing, die out in a couple of years, or a chapter that is big on brotherhood building, and challenging events, that lasts for a long time. This is a question that my chapter and I had to face. Apparently with the receipt of our charter next semester, we will have done the right thing. Please do not take what I have said personally, but as a founding father I was not hazed, and I can guarantee you that I am extremely proud of my TKE experience.

yitb,
Joe Webb

Re: Misguided
 

This has to be one of my favorite quotes ever.

While I agree that eliminating things like interviews, signatures and scavenger hunts goes too far and takes a lot of the fun and education out of pledging, this is over the top. MRE's? Sleep deprivation? You must be out of your tree.

If you wanted to run a military unit, you should have stayed in the military. (FWIW I think this stuff is just as much bull in the military as it is in a fraternity.)

Hazing Reply
 

I was fascinated to read your comments regarding hazing.

In many ways I felt like I was reading something from one of the 6 fraternities at our college that are off campus/have no charter.

Or maybe somehting from like 1983...

Hazing chapters exist in most major fraternities, but it is a dying breed. Eventually one of the people that is getting hazed will complain, or get hurt- and the college and whatever national banner you fly will do away with you. And you might get arrested or sent to court to face a lawsuit. Especially as a chapter advisor, you risk major legal liability for advising behavior to undergrads that is illegal.

Thus, no house, no rush etc.

And where are you then?

Jason Lenox
Lambda Chi Alpha 97'

Just out of curiousity, has anyone seen or heard from the guy who started this thread since he posted? He hasn't been back to defend himself, and I find that a bit suspicious.

My post
 

Hello fraters:

First of all, I want to thank you very much for your replies. I want to give you some background on my experiences and I'm looking for some feedback.

As I have indicated, I am a vet. I came from a broken home and I joined the Army out of H.S. because a judge made me do it. I was an undisciplined asshole who had no respect for authority.

After a couple of well deserved ass kicking from some DI's, I decided to make the best of the military. I got my act straight, went to Jump and Ranger School and went to the Gulf in 91. After the war, I used my educational benefits to attend college.

I pledged TKE because I felt they had a strong bond between each other, and because of a supposed "hard pledging" experience. The pledge period underwhelmed me, and I thought that GLO's were supposed to be difficult. The thing I disliked the most about the program was the forced alcohol consumption as a pledge. Remember, I was not your typical college freshman. I was 23 years old and had some life experiences. I could not see the point of drinking a lot of alcohol as a building experience.

After I received my letters, I was a very active frater, and served as Hegemon and Prytnis. I set out to change our program to something based on my experience which I felt would build character. Thus, we incorporated the military rituals in the chapter.

I was fortunate to have invested some money in the market, and after graduation, was able to purchase a small machine shop which I have grown into a pretty good business. I was asked to be the chaper advisor which I gladly accepted.

I feel that many of our young men need discipline, which is why I have defended the program we have. I felt that the hazing statements made my national fraternities have been "lip service", and that hazing was an accepted norm. Judging from my replies, it appears that I am mistaken.

I don't want to make TKE into a "write your check" fraternity, and I feel that a lot of anti-hazing rules are way overboard. (Remember, we have an attorney on retainer). But I am open to some ideas on how to have a challenging pledge program while maintaining some civility.

One other note, thanks to Frater Conard for his post about screwing and chasity. It makes sence frater.

YITB,

TEKE IS STRONG

Glad you are reconcidering a change of heart.

now you are talkin!
 

Dear Nameless Frater,

Thank you for the clarification. Now you sound a little more like a TKE. Remember love charity and esteem. These are three very abstract, but incredible concepts. My chapter and I try to instill these ideals into our pledge classes. While i do not mean to intend we are the shit...we are proud of what we do. Once brothers we share thoughts on the past pledge experience. Some of the greatest feedback came from not the events, not the challenges, but of the Brotherhood Building activites we have. In particular is our SHARING night. All the brothers and pledgs sit in a circle somewhere and pour your heart out. Most everyone has that deep, dark secret that you intend to take with you to the grave. Beleive it or not, maybe becuase we have been lucky, or maybe becuase the event is right before "spirit" week, this is more often then not every new members favorite event. This is what brotherhood is all about. Some of the shit that comes out in this night is incredible, sometimes scary. You gain a new respect for the man that you can drink beers with one night, and be able to cry next to other nights. Not all guys cry...not all guys share their secret. But sooner or later, it comes out. And when it does they are forever solidified into our bond, and our brotherhood.
This is just a small suggestion to a large problem frater. I think this is also an extreme. For the record, we are not known as the pussies on campus, we are not known as the assholes. TKE at Towson University is known as the nice guys, and the guys who can throw a party. That to me is a good thing.


YITB,
Joe Webb

On Hazing.......
 

Notice - the person who began the thread by saying that Hazing is good, that he is a current Chapter Advisor, and so forth and so on has written an appology and admitted that he is NOT a Chapter Advisor, and that he has a compulsive disorder. You may see that under the thread Apology.

Many people were under the impression that he was affiliated with Beta Rho Chapter of TKE, and that they were following the program of hazing and abuse outlined. That is NOT the case. Be aware that upon viewing his comments, an IMMEDIATE investigation was launched by officials of TKE International Fraternity.

We have deemed his allegations of such a pledge program to be false statements.

Thanks TROD!
 

I want to thank you for launching the investigation which called me out. It is through this that I have "hit my bottom" and am seeking help for my problem.

I have been engaged in destructive behavior for quite some time on the net, and because of this, I am, along with the help of my family and Tim at TKE nationals, getting the help I need.

Thanks again. The road to my recovery won't be easy, but I know that it will be good not to live a double life any longer, and to accept who I really am, which is a loving father and husband with five kids.

I have been asking myself Why? Maybe my doctor will be able to help me with this, but again, I apologize to all GLO's and TKE's everywhere for this irresponsible behavior.

YITB,

Shawn A

Making leaders
 

Frater, your program concerns me a great deal. It seems your pledging is based around breaking down individuals to the point that it is dangerous to their health. For someone to listen to you when u tell them they can't sleep or eat just so that they can be your brother is rediculous. How does torturing an individual make them closer to you and how does it make them "worthy" to be a TKE brother? Cutting off one of my nuts would hurt real bad but if I did it for TKE I don't think I'd get any award from nationals.

My fraternities program is based around creating leaders. We take the skills they already have and build off them to make those people better leaders and better brothers. When they finish they are closer to the brotherhood than ever before and are committed to getting the first officership thats available.

In those fraternities that do haze it seems like it only escalates. Once you are in you want to make your position all the more valuable. I know that you will blow this message off most probably but I hope at least you will consider what kind of harm you are doing to people that you want to call brothers.

YITB
Jughead

Frater,

Initiation of pledges is not the equivilent of Hell Week for Navy Seals. My initition was FUN! And through that, I bonded with my brothers. Im not sure exactly what your story is but if there is even ANY glimmer of truth to what your described, you need to re-evaluate what being a TKE really means.
Im glad to see you are getting help. No one is perfect, but you have a WHOLE LOT of brothers that care and will gladly help you out in your time of need.

YITB

guys,
make sure you read the whole thread. it turns out this guy isn't an advisor, and he's not a teke.

I know TKEISSTRONG is getting a lot of bad rap from all of his fellow fraters. He served his country in the military as I will in two years when I comission as an officer in the Army. But one of our former Pryntis's also served in the Gulf and saw action but feels strongly against hazing. That is one of our chapter's biggest pet peeves, b/c we have seen the horrors of other chapters hazing, yeah it may make one tougher, but how does it may one a better man and a leader. Yeah it can show him how to get through the tough times, but there are other things that could be implied that can do the same thing for that pledge. I've heard about people losing lives over hazing incidents, not from any of our chapters thankfully but other houses. I don't get a warm fuzzy feeling when people die trying to join something that is great. What our house does is drill them on their education and make them know their shit, and make them make their pledge experience an adventure and have fun telling stories about what they did as a pledge, not to send a shiver up their spine. I hope you take this to heart and change your ways. Because our house a reputaion for people not to Fuck with because we are tough but we are humble about our strength and never use it unless it is absolutly necessary. But yet we never haze our pledges. It doesn't prove anything except how much of a tool one can be, and not a leader he could be. I hope you read this and put it into consideration.

YITB GI

Yeah... I feel like a smacked ass right now, its like that test they give you in 2nd grade where they want you to try and do it as fast as you can and at the end it tells you: if you are reading this dont fill out anything on this test.

No one should feel bad for reacting to the original post by Tekeisstrong. True, if you had read further you would have discovered that the "alleged frater" (not convinced he is a Teke) apprently has a problem and likes to upset people.

What is important, is that so many of my fellow Tekes became enraged upon reading his original description of what he considered to be an ideal pledge program. You were angry, and promptly disagreed with him.

That so many responded this way makes me feel better about the future of TKE. That all my work as a frater will not be negated by having chapters closed due to injuries and/or death. I've had to deal with the near death of 3 pledges who nearly lost their lives due to the action of a misguided older member.

I hope never to have to deal with that again.

Fraternity
 

This is not the army and we are not training our pledges to go to war. I am strongly against physical hazing. You will not get my respect of something that you took as a pledge. You have respect for those people who have done something. The decorated general is respected for what he has done in combat, not for what he did in basic. You get respect for what you do. I get respect from my chapter for the things that I have done for the Fraternity and for the Greek Community. Respect me for that, not for what I went through in pledgeship. I have seen the guys who "took it" during pledgeship and to tell you the truth I was not impressed. Try changing you program to allow for more personal growth. 20% in a horrable number to end up with. TKE is not supposed to challenge you physically, we are here to challenge our pledges mentally, to grow and gain the most from college and the fraternity. A bunch of badasses in not what quality people are looking for.


YITB
643

Hazing is bad. That guy is an ass tring to get others to do such a horrible thing.

Simply put. Look at hazing from a different perspective. I know a chapter that physically beats their pledges, among other things, Dangerous things (ie: jumping in front of cars).

Its a self respect issue. Those who have no respect for themselves will be willing to undergo the abuse, others, the strong ones will go somewhere else. Not because they are "weak," but because they actually respect themselves.

This is why those who are not heavy-hazers own our campus' IFC and always destroy everyone in greeksing and carnival.

Well said.

As a member of a GLO on campus with the Beta Rho Tekes, I would just like to say that if he was affiliated with these guys, things have changed completely. I have known the Beta Rho guys for three years and have also dated one and I know that they have more respect for their chapter than that. Ever since I joined my GLO in the fall of 99, these guys have almost tripled their chapter size and continue to be a strong influence on campus. What they do inside their chapter is their business, however, I know those guys better than that and they would not subject their brothers to that kind of hazing...it is ridiculous.
Just thought I'd share my opinion since I happened to stumble across the post.

99% of the chapters don't haze. Besides the guy who posed this thread was proven to be a fake bye IHQ once we traceD it back to the source.

Hazing does not breed respect, it breeds contempt and airs a feeling of retaliation towards the new pledge class. It has no place in a fraternity that wants to instill brotherhood. Why should someone want to call you their brother if all you did was humiliate them or beat them? Any self respecting person would join another organization if they feel they were mistreated in any way.

physical hazing is about as cool as SARS. I believe in making them earn it, but not by taking them out back and beating the crap out of them. if anything, I'd leave after that point.

Physical hazing is bad, but mental is far worse. You can recover from something like a broken leg or arm without taking all too long, but mental is far worse and can really mess up a person's life. That and just think about the little groups that form... the freshmen have a grudge against the sophomores, who don't like the juniors, who still don't like some of the seniors because they didn't think it was intense enough when they went through.

My hegemon thought hazing was good because it formed brotherhood between the group of new members... the brotherhood we formed was hating him and was very weak beyond that. my pledge class started at 13 and ended up at 4, with 3 returning after summer. the following year was about the same, till we hit bottom and got the big zero, got ourselved educated on the matter, changed around how new member ed works, changed the culture of the chapter, and since then we went 17 of 18 when I was hegemon, then the year after i graduated, another 25 guys. Pretty big change and a whole different outlook throughout the chapter in just a short time. Sure there was rough times, heated arguments on why hazing isn't cool, some of the older guys stopped comming around and got upset because "It's not the chapter I joined" but we started being a stable chapter that has had growing numbers and quality since.

Since the word got out that fraternites at the campus didn't haze, and people finally started realizing that clubs like rugby, lacross and the b-ball team still do haze, and haze hardcore, things suddenly got really good for us in terms of school funding and support.