Overconfident Mothers?
 

Hi All -- I saw the thread in this section about overconfident PNM's...but what about mothers who suffer from too much confidence?!

I was at a Christmas party a couple of weeks ago -- a few friends and I were left with our jaws hanging open when another woman told us her daughter was "pretty much guaranteed a bid to four sororities."

Her girl is a high school senior who has recently been accepted at, and confirmed her enrollment for Fall 2011, at an SEC school. I know all SEC recruitments are fiercely competitive; this girl's particular school is one of THE most competitive.

Mom says DD is a sure thing for four of the sororities, though. Her first cousin is a member of one of them; her guy cousin is good friends with a lot of girls in another. He's also in what Mom deems a top tier fraternity at this school. As for the other two sure things, according to mom, this girl has some friends who are members.

Maybe those factors will help, but we tried to tell her that nobody is guaranteed anything and that recs are a must. She just nodded and smiled politely as though we were speaking of something that did not apply to her.

Two of the women in the conversation were sorority members at this particular SEC school. They told her that over 1000 young women participate in recruitment and that, as great as her daughter is, everyone shows up with the full package these days. They tried to explain first round parties and how her daughter would only have a short amount of time to meet members -- and that not having recs could result in her getting released. Again, the nod and polite smile. She seems to think her daughter is safe with four sororities.

She was not in a sorority herself, but wants very much for her daughter to be Greek. Her daughter is a very sweet girl who would probably have much to offer a sorority -- but I'm afraid Mama is going to sabotage her with ill advice. This is her first child to go away to school.

I did tell her to come do some reading on Greek Chat!

How do you get it through the heads of these moms that their DD's do not enter recruitment with any promises?

I don't know the daughter all that well -- but from what I do know, she seems pretty sharp, so I do hope she'll research this out. Also, a lot of girls from our area will be going through recruitment at SEC schools next fall --perhaps when she sees them securing recs, she'll realize it's not optional where she's going. I just could not believe how sure the mother was about DD's chances. Most of the mother's I know are, at best, cautiously optimistic...but most are pretty nervous!

Did all of you offer to do recs for DD? How was that received?

I swear that I've seen as many moms who weren't Greek act this way as moms who were. This one seems to not realize that offending Greek women can result in her daughter getting cut if those women report back to the chapters what's going on. Yeah, the daughter shouldn't be cut because mom's being awful but it certainly happens.

That's such a shame. Maybe the daughter will do enough talking about the process with her friends to realize she needs recs...and that her mother is being an idiot. I haven't encountered these parents but my mom has, and it almost never turns out well IMO.

The fact that she's not Greek probably doesn't help since it's harder for her to really understand what goes on behind the scenes...and that having a friend or cousin in a chapter doesn't guarantee a bid by any means, especially at a super competitive school. I know every mother thinks they're unique snowflake is the best snowflake, but seriously...with 1000+ girls going through, how many of them are beautiful, straight A students with impressive resumes and friends in chapters? A LOT OF THEM. It always boggles my mind that mothers/PNMs don't grasp that.

This mom sounds uninformed. I'm thinking she's actually insecure - no one who knows anything about any GLOs (and most especially SEC GLOs) would be that cocky.

What would I do? Work around the mom to maximize the daughter's chances in a very polite manner. I'd invite the daughter to Panhellenic pre-recruitment meetings (if there are any in the area, of course), ask the daughter for her resume so you can submit a recommendation letter, share my GLO's magazine with the daughter, tell her about all the websites that the GLOs maintain, and have a conversation with the daughter in which you kindly and truthfully spell out the facts of life re: SEC recruitment.

Otherwise, we're going to be getting a panic post from daughter or mother a week before recruitment starts. Or, worse, a nastygram post afterwards when recruitment is a FAIL because daughter was not prepared. I have been known to say "I told you so" but there is no satisfaction in it when I say those words.

Pretty much.

I don't think it matters if you were Greek or not when you have a daughter that goes through. It is so different now then it was when I went through in the early 80's. Unless you do volunteer work and understand the voting process today I don't think you can truly comprehend what happens. I know my groups voting has changed since I was in the Chapter. I actually had 2 alumni contact me after Fall Recruitment wanting to know what happened and why their DD's didn't get a bid. When I told them how RFM works they were shocked. To get through round one now you HAVE to have a recommendation even at the not so competitive schools IMHO OR you have to have that 1,000 watt personality that lights up a room so you get noticed. 10-15 minutes is not much time to get to know any one it is all first impressions. I have seen some really great girls get released after the first round with impressive resumes and no recs.

I've seen some really great girls with impressive resumes get cut after first round even with recs.:(

Absolutely. Could not agree more. Amen.

ETA: yes, Carnation, true, seen that also.

Didn't we have this thread before? Or did we just have some moms on here who thought that? (Or both)

I would remind her of the amount of work her daughter had to do to achieve in HS, and everything she had to go through to be accepted at the college of her choice. Hopefully mom will nod and say "yes, yes." Then tell her that recruitment IS EXACTLY THE SAME WAY AND REQUIRES THE SAME AMOUNT OF PREPARATION.

That's what I don't get. These people are on CC from their kid's freshman year on making sure they get the school they want, because they realize even if they got into 5 different Ivies with no trouble, it isn't like that anymore! I don't know why they think that what is basically a competition among hundreds of accomplished women (a fact you can find out fairly easily with limited Internet research) doesn't require a similar effort.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts on this. The school this girl will be attending is UGA -- I know I don't need to say another word about what she'll be up against during recruitment! She was recently accepted through early action. (They were notified early December.) The whole conversation at this party actually got started when we were discussing the UGA acceptances at our children's high schools. Several got in; a lot more got deferred and at least one was flat out denied.

The mom certainly gets how competitive it is to get accepted at this school, and even seems to understand that recruitment can be a blood bath -- she just thinks DD is in some safe little bubble with four sororities because of her connections. DD has apparently met a lot of girls in one of the sororities and "they all just love her" according to mom.

You know, I don't think we did offer to write recs. It's always been a given around here that a lot of us give recs -- we get contacted every year. Since this is mom's first chick to leave the nest, maybe she does not realize that...so we can let DD know that we're available and stress to her how necessary they are. Thanks -- that is a great suggestion.

There is no question about what's going to happen to this girl if she attempts UGA recruitment without recs. I suspect, too, that mom is assuring her she has nothing to worry about with four of the sororities. She told us that all four are among the best at UGA -- we told her that the best sorority for anyone at UGA is the one that most fits them, period. Again, that nod and polite smile!

I'll tell you that I got into a sorority at UGA back in 1993 without recs - I had no idea I needed them - my mother wasn't Greek, my sister was Greek at a non-competitive school, so I was clueless. None of us realized rush was competitive or that I should have gotten recs... basically, I was as dumb as dumb could be.

But, on my side, I had good grades, lots of activities and a decent "stage presence". Add to that, I was also naive and didn't have my heart set on any house going in. And I wasn't cocky, and neither was Mom.

In short, I was damn lucky.

Of course, back then, you could get in with a mediocre GPA and average SAT scores. I think I'd still get admitted, but it's not the sure thing it would have been back then.

Well, even if Precious Angel doesn't pledge, at least she has a shot at getting a good education. :)

I just hope Snowflake Daughter is a better conversationalist than her mother.

We had someone this fall who knew a PNM who's mother WAS a legacy at a non-SEC school but the PNM was attending an SEC school and mother had already decided that it was no big deal, PNM would get legacy chapter, don't need recs for anyone else kthxbi.

Don't remember who was the OP in that thread though, a regular GCer not the PNM or the mom.

It's the same thing with some cheerleading moms. Sometimes it comes down to perceived exclusion and wanting their daughters to have it "better."

It's funny, most of the obsessed cheer moms I know are either ex-supercheerleaders (like the one who wrote a university about her daughter's cheer skills when the girl was a high school freshman, girl ended up growing way too tall for their coed team btw) or uber-trashy women who probably desperately longed to be cheerleaders when they were in high school. The thing is that now cheering is a sport that requires considerable tumbling skills and cheerleaders aren't chosen by student body vote like they were back in the day. Soooo...you actually have all these awful moms who thought that putting their daughters through gymnastics for years to make sure they'd be high school cheerleaders someday would ensure that their daughters would be wildly popular.

These moms always seem to be shocked when their daughters are treated like any other athletes instead of campus queens. They're the ones who try to jack up the price of cheering by insisting that the girls buy matching warm-ups or expensive sets of poms or that the moms spring for a new $50 gift basket for every competition--hey, every cheerleader needs a zebra-striped, personalized basket with a set of zebra-themed accessories in it!

But I digress with my rant. It could be that Mom did feel left out of campus life back in the day and her sniezhana (look it up) is being prepped to do what she couldn't. If her daughter doesn't make it, Mom may very well feel like everything she's done for her child has come to naught.

Maybe I am a "in the minority mom" but I know recruitment for my kid is going to be tough as nails and I remind her of that every single time it comes up in conversation. I am even getting sick of hearing myself say "open mind." My daughter is concerned because she believes she offers plenty; strong resume, good people skills, in great shape, long hair, pretty girl, 4.0, strong charity work and guess what...she is just like 60% of all the other girls in this southern town university campus. Her recruitment will not just be tough, but brutal, and I refuse to handicap her by making her believe "she has this". Do I think she has a good shot? Sure...IF she keeps an open mind and does not drink the "top tier" kool-aid.

Good. If she listens to you she'll it'll be smooth sailing for her compared to the girls with the in-denial moms.

This is so true. One friend in a particular sorority does not help you when a chapter of hundreds of girls is selecting new members! And I would think that in SEC GLOs where the chapters are just massive even having dozens of friends in the chapter wouldn't help either. Hopefully these moms will come to their senses...

Based on what a mutual friend has told me, this mom did miss out on a lot during her own high school and college days, and does have some inferiority and acceptance issues because of it. She wants this girl to have the experiences she didn't, and I do understand that, but she has never (that I know of) encouraged her to find her own way; she's always pushed her towards the most popular and competitive activities in our community (and cheerleading is a big one). Believe me, she's not the only parent in this town who has gotten caught up in what's popular instead of pursuing the things that truly interest her child.

We also live in a community where there is, unfortunately, a lot of "keeping up with the Joneses" and one way people compete is with their children -- their trophy kids. It's almost like, the more academically, athletically and socially successful their children are, the more they think it validates them as good parents. It REALLY gets on my nerves!

There are a lot of people in our community who are Greek -- and many have children who have followed suit. As more and more of us have kids reaching college age, the talk about Greek life has really been on the front burner recently...I guess she is hearing a lot about it and has decided it's the next popular activity her daughter needs to pursue in order to be included and part of the social scene.

Want to know what happens when a Mom knows it all? Want to know what happens when mother and/or daughter refuses to listen to basic information because they "know better" and (in their case) recruitment isn't as competitive? I wrote a thread on it: My daughter's friend's recruitment.

In short: Mom (who was Greek and deactivated after a standards meeting) who knows how valuable a commodity her daughter is in this world. Mother and daughter looked on the internet to see the top tier houses, which were the ONLY acceptable houses. Mother and daughter refused my daughter's advice on clothing (flipflops and cutoffs were the chosen outfit for casual days). And her legacy chapter? EWWWWWWW...do you know that they had a bald girl in the house? Recs? Nah, not necessary.

First round: dropped from all the "right" houses.

Joined a recolonizing house and dropped out.

Went through informal...dressed better...no bid from top house.

Went through formal spring.....didn't work either.

Now she claims that girls from the top houses are stopping her on campus BEGGING her to join.

I'll introduce them to the OP's family with the title: What not to do...and say. (Did I mention that she insulted her legacy house? When she was there...talking to the girls....)

They're begging her? :eek: Isn't she about a junior now?

IMO a lot of that went on where I grew up. Only most of the parents seemed to have a really accurate view on what it took to get in. And for some of these kids, it did matter because they came back home and will (I'm sure) be active participants in the social scene where the right sorority/friends/school does have a huge impact on their social success. Could be the case for this kid, and I hate that her mom might ruin it for her.

Maybe you could find a nice way of telling her that if this is that important to her (and her daughter, but it sounds like that's really a secondary issue to her) she should listen to those who have actually been through the system and have enough connections to know what recruitment is like now. I hate to think what will happen when unique snowflake is dropped from all those houses she's "guaranteed" to get into. Especially if unique snowflake actually wants this for herself as badly as her mother wants it for her.

She is a sophomore, almost a junior. Mine is a bit older, one semester ahead.

But geez Louise, don't girls from top and heck all houses, prowl the campus and ask random girls to join their house? She is a top commodity after all.

Uber-trashy and cheerleader are not always mutually exclusive. Just saying is all. :)

Oh come on.

You can't drop that and not explain.

ellebud, I <3 you (and not in a weird way!). Happy New Year!

And of course all the chapters prowl the campus and beg for members. Yes, of course. At every school, no matter its size or the size of its Greek system. Uh huh. Sure.

When pigs fly.

Az: Love you too! And Happy New Year to you and everyone here.

One of the sisters made a comment to soothe over the awkwardness of a sister who is involuntarily bald. It is a medical condition. That would be medically baldness (aloplesia sp?) or chemo. The girl chooses not to wear a wig. Her sisters chooses to love her as she is.

And yes, absolutely, girls are prowling the school on a mission: find Cinderella and bring her back to the castle.

Oh ellebud, this just absolutely cracks me up!

We have a lot of trophy kids in our neck of the woods. We also have Greek moms who did not go to SEC/competitive schools telling girls/their moms that as pretty and smart as they (the girls) are they shouldn't have any problems with recruitment, ehh on recs, and that maybe they should wait until they are sophomores and are more settled at school. :eek: Might still work at some schools, but realistically not at an SEC school. They are truly not trying to mislead the girls, they really believe that! Then the SEC moms have to gently try and correct that impression, which can be hard.

Really, I don't know what she is thinking. We all stood there and told her how brutal recruitment is and that UGA is one of the toughest. She knows plenty of moms who, last fall, were sharing stories about how rough and stressful recruitment was for their girls at SEC schools. Her attitude is like, yes, yes, I know that -- but it will be okay because she has good connections in four of the houses."

Another reason I was so shocked is that DD is not one of these high school queen bees who has had everything handed to her. She's worked hard for things and has had her share of disappointments. This mom knows firsthand that things just don't always pan out -- but boy, there sure appears to be a big blind spot about recruitment.

How sad. Maybe one of you that knows unique snowflake well enough could offer to write her recs and then give her the names of women in other sororities who would write them for her too. Hopefully a nudge in the right direction would go a long way?

I think this is the way to go!

Thanks for all the advice and insight everyone.

a year or two ago, there was a uga sorority alum. whose daughter was going thru recruitment at uga. not only was she a legacy thru her mother, but her older sister, grandmother and assorted other relatives too. mom had been active as an alum.with her collegiate chapter and several chapter sisters who also were active alums. wrote recs. for the daughter. daughter did not receive a bid to legacy chapter and mom came on here to vent.

my point is, this family knew what was what at uga. daughter had undoubtedly been groomed to join her legacy chapter from birth, she had the connections, the grades and activities, the looks and personality;according to her mother, and the gpa. relying on the information provided by the mom they did everything right yet, it still did not work out as they had hoped. greekdee, your friend needs to read that thread.

This describes my roommate at UGA exactly (this was early 90s, though). She got cut right before prefs from Legacy House and ended up getting dropped from all but a few houses that were "beneath her" and she quit rush and never pledged anywhere. Mom, Granny, Cousins, Aunts - were stunned. And wounded.

At a huge state school like UGA, where the chapters have been around for a long, long time - there are usually enough chapter legacies to say, Phi Mu, Alpha Delta Pi and Chi Omega - that they could hit quota three times over each year if they just took legacies.

Oh well! Live and learn.

That actually applies to almost every chapter on campus. As far as the girl a couple of years ago....she never did pledge to my knowledge. I actually met her and understood why. Very nice girl but just sort of off if that makes sense. My own roommate's daughter got cut from our own chapter that very year. Happens all the time.

bravemaroon,did your roommate give it another try?

It's a shame - she didn't. There was a house where she wasn't a legacy that she liked a lot, but they cut her just before Prefs. It left her with two houses that she didn't like (both of which were favorites of mine, one of which had cut me - and she was nasty about it to me).

She tried to COB, but none of the 'good' houses were doing it (her words). *My* house was doing it - but she had been so insistent to my sisters that she was going Legacy, they weren't interested (plus, she'd been so rude to me, I wasn't about to put my rep on the line for her).

She started dating a guy whose fraternity brothers all had sisters at a certain house (one of the two that hadn't cut her), but she had been so disdainful of them, they finally washed their hands of her, too.

So, she never went anywhere. And it's a shame - because two great houses actively wanted to pledge her. Talk about dragging Cinderella back to the castle!

Major life lesson for all overconfident mothers here: your precious Cinderella will never be brought back to any castle if she is a rotten, spoiled, stuck-up brat. :D