question for all you southern belles ;)
 

say a girl rushes at a really non-competitive school, gets into ABC sorority, and is initiated. Then she decides to transfer to say UT Austin, where she never would have gotten a bid. She has a great personality, but she doesn't have any friends there/doesn't "look" like an ABC.

I know sororities can choose not to affiliate you, or they have to vote on it or whatever, but at my school I think it's a sure thing as long as you go through the process. At Texas, would ABC vote her in, but ostracize her/choose to not affiliate her/totally welcome her etc?

This is out of pure curiosity, by the way, and I'm sure there's no solid answer, but just your opinion. Procrastination at its finest hehehe

QFP

*crash* not a Southern Belle, born there but raised in the mighty West. However, I know that each NPC chapter has its own policy regarding affiliation. No universals here.

Regarding the rest of your post, I'm settling in with hot chai tea, looking forward to the responses from my most esteemed SBGCGFs.

Even if you think it's a "sure thing" I'm sure there are people who have transferred to your school and either 1) chose on their own not to affiliate because they didn't feel uncomfortable with the chapter 2) were voted down for affiliation 3) were given the chance to affiliate technically, but never truly fit in and so they quit.

NO school is no noncompetitive that everyone who wants in gets in regardless of what the chapters think...if that's the case, then either the water supply at that school needs to be reproduced and shipped around the world as every single rushee at it is desired by every single group, OR the NPC chapters are not living up to their standards of membership selection.

Quite frankly, even if the girl in question was perfection in every way, if she joined a sorority at a small, noncompetitive school and enjoyed that experience, the culture shock might be so great going to someplace like UT that even if she WAS accepted she wouldn't want to be part of the Greek system period, let alone a certain sorority. Ditto the other way (going from Ole Miss to Dinky U). You'd feel more comfortable going from, say ZTA to DZ at SEC U, than you would going from ZTA at SEC to ZTA at Tiny FootballHating College.

This is why I always crack up when people trying to colonize say "I met all the ABCs at State U and they are EXACTLY what we need here at Podunk U!" They don't realize it is the PEOPLE they liked and not the letters, and that if there's a scarcity of suitable women at Podunk U, just bringing in ABC is not going to magically transform them.

aztheta, everyones invited the title was just a little joke :)
i definitely thought the affiliation protocol was universal, interesting.

ksu, i meant "sure thing" figuratively speaking i guess. I've just met a lottt of girls who transferred into their sorority, so i'll rephrase and say there odds are in your favor of getting affiliated.

And yeah, now that you mention it, there's probably a ridiculous amount of girls who pull the go where ABC is not popular then transfer to where it is trick. I just think it would be soooo awkward to be at a school that has my sorority and not be a part of it!

Back in the day, the smaller Podunk U campuses had "feeder" chapters. In other words, a girl who wanted to be an XYZ at State U but knew she probably wouldn't make the cut, would opt for a feeder school like Podunk U where she'd have better odds of getting in and then transfer out to State U. Back then, most chapters at State U took all transfers because it was just not the norm to start at one school and transfer.

Today, where people transfer around all the time, that's not the case. So affiliation has gotten to be more problematic. And the groups at State U caught on to what was happening and decided to just not take transfers any more. Of course, this was mostly in the South....

33girl, i actually do have a transfer friend who chose not to affiliate with her sorority! I'm sure there are others/girls who didn't get voted in that I haven't met so I'm biased.

And yeah, there's always the possibility the girl won't like that chapter/greek life at the school, I was thinking more of the ones who definitely want to. I completely know what you mean about the last part though, we were talking about how we need another sorority because our greek life is growing so much. And of course, one of the guy says "I have a lot of hot XYZ friends we need XYZ." I didn't even know where to start lol

Titchou, I've heard about that, I actually suspect some girls have done that at my school too. Too bad for the girls that have no agendas and just want to be a part of their sorority!

I've had several sisters transfer to the University of Alabama over the years (from our small liberal arts university with chapters maxing out at 60), and none tried to affiliate. I don't blame them because I wouldn't either...culture shock is real and it would be hard to go from a small, laid back chapter to a large powerhouse chapter.

I only know of two girls who asked to join our chapter as transfers. One was when I was a sophomore, and before a decision was made she told us she was transferring back to her first school. The second was this year, and of course I'm an alum so I don't know her but she came from a similarly sized chapter with a similar member make up. I know a couple of transfers from another state school in another chapter on campus that have said they had culture shock coming to the chapter here even though they're about the same size because the member make up was so different. It just goes to show how different our chapters can be from campus to campus.

As someone who attends one of those podunk colleges, I'm not sure I'd affiliate if I transferred schools. Having met many amazing southern sisters at National Convention, I am so proud to have them as sisters in KD...they're just fabulous! But, I joined KD for the women on my campus...just like they joined for the sisters in their own chapter. I think I'd be more likely to opt for alumni status and be friendly with my southern sisters, rather than trying to force myself to fit into a chapter culture not well suited to me.

Lots of love and AOT to all my southern sisters...you're welcome to visit me and my podunk college anytime!! ;)

I knew girls in a chapter that was not even a "top tier" one at USC who voted to deny a transfer, and one that got denied from a "top tier". So it's definitely not a sure thing. Some chapters (DG and Alpha Phi come to mind, mostly because they are omnipresent in California) get so many transfers every year that it probably seems like it is though.

This happens year after year in Florida. It was quite common for girls to apply to a lesser choice school and go through recruitment. They chose to pledge the lower tier org knowing they would leave and then attend their true school of choice. Of course, the org was a top tier org at the "other" school. Many years ago I saw most girls being able to affiliate or I would say a greater number of them, but not any longer.

Things definitely have changed over time. The orgs are well aware of what is/has been going on over time. You may be considered a sister, but it does not guarantee a spot. So many factors come into play and I would not chance it if you really want the full greek experience during your collegiate years.

One additional note, schools in Florida have made it a bit harder to transfer after a semester or two. It use to be so easy, but more factors come into the admissions decision, so I am sure this makes it a bit harder now as well. IMO, it is not worth it.

Baci: That's what I meant by "feeder school." Old school terminology from back in my day....

I am not a Texas belle, but I am from pretty deep in the heart of Dixie. I have seen this go both ways. I have known a woman who transferred because she changed her major, got to know the girls in the new chapter, and affiliated and is not quite happy. I have also seen women who went to a "feeder chapter", transfer, and get shot down.

My advice (just in general and is subject to the rules of the specific org.) is not to transfer just for a chapter. If you change for your major/need to move home/etc, great. Get to know the girls in the chapter. If they like/fit with you and you fit/like them then I doubt affiliation would be a problem. If you are just trying to transfer into a "top chapter", the women will most likely be able to sense that and then I wouldn't hold your breath or waste their time.

I would say that anyone who counts on affiliating with almost any chapter at UT will most likely have a very rude awakening.

As I remember, back in the fifties, if you transferred to a school that had "your" sorority, you were required to affiliate or you lost your membership.

Because most women who left college in the 50s left to marry. Totally different scenario than what's going on here.

I was a sponsorship chairman in Texas for a few years, and I can tell you that there were several girls from some of the "wealthy" old line suburbs who went to other schools for a year simply because they were legacies to a certain of the so called "top three" at Texas and they would not have made the cut. Because it was considered nearly mandatory for her to do what her Mama and Grandmama did, and for getting into Junior League back in such and such Cities she'd go to another school, preferably in the South and then transfer to UT.

There's even one Southern school that was favored by a certain Dallas suburb.

Of course, this was a dozen or so years ago. I don't know if it's still the case.

Plano? Southlake?

Richardson/Plano. But neither of those are the place I was referring to.

Oh, I was being nosey trying to figure out the place you were referring to lol

Guess I'm out of the loop

AnchorAlum, were the daughters usually accepted as affiliates by the Texas chapters? Or was it enough for those families that the daughters were (for example) Pi Phis and Texas grads, eve if they weren't Texas Pi Phis?
________
buy condo Pattaya

Back in my day, Plano was farm country, and Southlake didn't exist (or if it did, I'd never heard of it), I knew more pi phis from towns like Tyler :p

I went to SMU, was in a top house, and we let transfers in all the time. I knew girls who transferred from SMU to UT and had no problem affiliating either, but most who chose to transfer to Texas after starting at SMU had gone to school with many of the girls in the house they were transferring into.

Just shows how time has changed the landscape both in the Greek scene and in the cities!!

Honestly, I am not necessarily talking about Pi Phi OR just UT.

SMU was in the picture as well.

I'm still not talking about those towns. :)

This is like the old episodes of What's My Line and I've Got A Secret that I was just watching. Is the town bigger than a breadbox?

And those are the women who would have likely had a positive outcome if they had gone through recruitment as a freshman at UT. One of the big affiliation problems the sororities at UT are seeing is from CAP students who deliberately pledge a specific sorority at another school in the UT system that has a weaker reputation with the sole intention of affiliating when then transfer. These are women who would never have made it into those chapters as UT PNMs. They're looking at getting in through the back door an it just doesn't work.

I realize I'm far removed from this part of the sorority world, but I'm surprised it has been put up with as long as it apparently has (from what I read here). Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like manipulate the system at lesser school (therefore manipulate the sisters I really don't care about) and then manipulate my way into a place I don't necessarily belong.

Don't the women at the lesser schools start to resent this? Can't they tell they are being manipulated? Does it cause animosity amongst the sisters in the state?

As a member of a northern chapter at a competitive (but not SEC competitive or close) school, I can't give the southern perspective of this, but I can shed light on a similar situation. The year I went through recruitment, there was a girl who had numerous options, but pledged what is considered the "bottom" chapter, because, as she said, "they would take anyone".

She transferred to a southern school (which is competitive, but not Alabama or LSU brutal), and, according to a mutual friend, has affiliated. Is she meshing with her new chapter? Couldn't tell you. But what I can tell you is that her old chapter found out what happened and felt that what she did was unfair and an insult to their sisterhood...they found out she transferred over the summer, while she knew around the time of recruitment. Some sisters from her old chapter have mentioned that they resent her because of that, and they do keep an eye out for girls with a similar agenda; though it is not an common phenomenon at our school.

As I said, I speak from my own northern, mildly competitive point of view...but I can see how the chapter the transferring PNM pledged would feel resentment.

I started at a Big 12 school, then transferred to the smallest Div. I-A university in the U.S. and pledged my 1st choice.

Every year, there would always be a few sorority women who transferred over the summer to a large school where they probably wouldn't have gotten a bid to the house they joined.

Wouldn't say we were a feeder school as the top houses at my university were the same top houses at the large nearby schools. But, instead of 1000+ going thru Rush, there was only about 300.

I do know that at some of the big SEC schools, some chapters won't affiliate transfers from small schools (like, non-Division I-A universities).

Pretty much everyone has gotten hep to this and I don't think it really works anymore.

What's sad is that plenty of girls (and their mothers) still think it will work. I've known a few girls who went to smaller schools in GA with the plan to affiliate at UGA with their dream chapters.

But here's an Actual True Story that's even more bothersome (and I'm sure this happens more than the instance I'm aware of):
Girl goes to SEC U as a freshman
Girl rushes
Girl does not get into ABC Dream Sorority
Girl transfers immediately to Small U that has not started school yet
Girl pledges ABC Dream Sorority at Small U
Girl transfers back to SEC U as a sophomore
Girl is shocked when she is not able to affiliate with ABC Dream Sorority

It just seems like a lot of work to be able to say "I was an ABC." Then again, I wasn't raised by a family in which every living woman was an ABC.

This is what I gather from this thread.

A question: for those who transfer to another school and attempt to affiliate, and are unsuccessful, your greek life COMPLETELY ends? Like, could you wear letters and attend greek parties? Participate in other greek activities? Would you have to spend the remainder of your UG life explaining to people that "youre an XYZ, but not a State U XYZ?"

Does not affiliating = that chapter not acknowledging you at all? If I had a class with an XYZ there, would she shun me because I wasnt given a bid there? I just wonder what the overall consensus is, socially.

In the scenario dgdramadawg described, them not affiliating the woman is kind of exactly what you described in the first paragraph. As far as "Greek parties" it depends what you mean. She most likely wouldn't be allowed to go to closed mixers, and definitely not to date parties, but if NOP fraternity has a general party, she can go to that, the same as anyone else can.

Whether the sisters of the chapter would outright "shun" her is anyone's guess. I would hope not. But if she attempted to get into their group through nefarious means...I wouldn't blame them if they did. That's a 2 part crime. 1) Using a less-popular chapter to get initiated; and 2) trying to put one over on the sisters of the more-popular chapter.

I have posted this story as a cautionary tale elsewhere on GC, so apologies in advance to those for which it is quite repetitive.

I went to a southern school (TCU) with students that just "had" to be in certain sororities for their bloodlines/communities/etc. There were also just those girls who may have been big fish in their small (non-Texan) pond and saw themselves in only the most elite chapters on campus. A girl on my hall freshman year was one of those.

She came from out-of-state, which was not uncommon, but had her sights set on ONLY one chapter out of the 10 that we had. That one chapter traditionally pledged girls from specific Texas towns that came from a very elite social class. While this girl could have easily gotten a bid from any number of chapters on campus, she wanted no part of them. Once her dream chapter cut her (after 2nd round I think?), she dropped out of rush.

So, sophomore year she rushes again. Announces to anyone who will listen that she is rushing to be in that same chapter. This time she is cut after first round. Therefore, she packs up her bags, transfers back home before school even starts, and goes to the small, commuter school in her town. One guess as to the house that she pledges there. Guess who shows back up on campus junior year sporting her letters and wanting to affiliate? But... the chapter not only voted not to affiliate her, they basically shunned her. She also didn't get many (any?) invites to fraternity parties because the girls in that chapter made sure all the boys knew what she had done and that she was not a part of them since she wore letters every freaking day.

While I have no doubt that she joined an alumnae chapter the day after graduation, and probably has had somewhat of a fulfilling life as an alumna, I have to wonder if she thinks that it was worth it. She basically gave up her entire college Greek Life experience to get her prized letters.

But here's my question on a deal like the above.

In certain circles where people feel they HAVE to be an ABC, isn't it not just being an ABC, but being an ABC from YZ chapter? And if it's pretty well known that YZ chapter shunned your wannabe self, how are you going to explain that one?

back home (since it was out of state) she could sport her ABC letters and say she went to TCU and it would be a slim chance that any hometown people would know that she is not a member of the TCU chapter. if it's a sorority that is strong in that region, then she has the prestige of being an ABC, period. it might also be that the hometown folks don't know to be impressed by the TCU chapter.

This is pretty much what happened with the girl in the situation I described. Everyone knew she pledged ABC, so when she transferred back to her big SEC school, everyone back home assumed she'd affiliated. Only people who knew girls in the chapter in question knew the "whole story," and most of those girls were too ladylike to spread the story around back home.

In answer to tld221's question, I know that the girl still wore letters/shirts on campus (a source of frustration to the girls in the chapter, though they couldn't do anything about it). She wasn't invited to closed chapter events, but could attend anything alumni were invited to since she was technically an alum.

Okay, two different questions above. Yes, being an ABC from certain chapters carries more weight than being one from other chapters.

However, with the girl that I mentioned... she was from out of state. I don't know the sorority pecking order (yes, I shudder even typing that, but she is from a state well known for that type of nonsense) for the alumnae chapters there. I also don't know if ABC is well regarded in her area, or if she just was considering the reputation of them at TCU. I will say that ABC at TCU did not routinely bid girls from her hometown, so it wasn't like there was a pipeline of those who came before her that she felt the need to keep up with.

She came from a priviledged background, but just not quite that of the girls in ABC, and again, would not have had in-house support. She was a sweet girl, but her insecurities could be sniffed a mile away. Honestly, she could have fit in numerous chapters on our campus, just not in the only one she thought she was good enough for.

I am sickened by what she went through to sneak in the back door, but also feel bad for her as the whole shunning thing would have only served to exacerabate her insecurities. By junior year I was living in our house and planted in the small bldg where all my classes were so I didn't see much of her. Of course, every time I did, she had her ABC tote bag and letters. But none of ABCs, nor many (any?) of the fraternity guys gave her the time of day.

Finally, as for what her hometown thought- who knows? They had to have known that she went bidless twice and that she pledged in their small commuter hometown school. I don't know where she moved after graduation, but I suspect if it was anywhere but back home she could carefully craft her "I am an ABC. I went to TCU" and just gloss over that oh-so-important year in the middle.

Now my curiosity is up for whatever became of her...

ETA: I confess to just doing a search for her on FB. She is back in her hometown.