A Word of Caution to PNMs
 

Consider this a public service announcement for all PNMs.

The Internet can be both your best friend and worst enemy as you prepare to participate in formal recruitment at your school. It can be the source of invaluable information or your complete downfall. You are the one who is driving that car. If you're a great girl who would be a wonderful sister for life, we want you to succeed at recruitment. Really. We do.

However, you are not as invisible nor anonymous on the Internet as you think you are. The world just isn't that big when it comes to colleges and Greek life. Accept this fact and behave exactly as you would when communicating face-to-face with sorority members about possible membership. I think almost all chapters, at least at highly competitive schools, can recount at least one tale of "Death by Facebook" during recruitment. But there's also a lesser known malady called "Death by Greekchat." This is where a PNM's recruitment has been completely torpedoed by her (or a parent's) behavior here.

The amount of due dilligence that is involved in membership selection in the age of the Internet is staggering. Gone are the days of our parents where Patti PNM showed up with a good resume, recs, and a big smile. Now we know Patti also did half the football team on spring break and bragged about it on Facebook. Then she went on Greekchat to talk about how she would only be an XYZ at State U because no one else was good enough for her since she's clearly top tier material. Then she told all the Greekchatters who cautioned her to have an open mind where they could put their open minds. You need to keep yourself tidy, and that includes what you do here on Greekchat.

If you attend a large and/or competitive school, chances are there are sorority members at your school who at least lurk here. Take a look at all those visitors and registered users along the left hand side of this page. I'll give you a hint: they aren't all ESL spammers preparing to make posts about the herbal viagra they sell. They're PNMs like you as well as sorority actives, alumnae and even inter/national sorority officers and other well connected volunteers. Even if no one from your school is here, if you behave poorly, I can assure you that someone here will know someone at your school and send a link to anything questionable you do here.

When people take the time to advise you about how things work at your school, thank them and be gracious. If we tell you that you need recs, rest assured, you do need them. If we tell you a campus is competitive and your 2.8 will get you automatically cut because all the chapters require a 3.3, believe it. It's not that we don't think that you're awesome or otherwise well qualified. It's just that every one of those other PNMs is special too and most of them have at least a 3.3. Don't argue because you don't think things should be that way or decide things can't possibly be that way because you just talked to a stranger at the Quickie Mart and they said their brother-cousin Elmo once dated the sister of someone who was in a sorority at a totally different school and she said that's not the way things are at all. Just because we tell you how things are doesn't mean we agree with the situation. Trust us when we tell you something. We are trying to help you and in many cases, to prepare you for some certain disappointment. Don't kill the messenger even if you don't like the way the message is delivered. This can come back to bite you in a big way and makes you look all sorts of ugly to people who may be in a position to help you become a member.

This is all good advice.

Also, the flip side: If you come on GC and conduct yourself in a mature manner, it can reflect positively on you, because you are clearly interested in Greek life and willing to do your homework. This is a sign that you are prepared for the commitment, at least at schools like my alma mater where you could sign up for rush about ten minutes before it started.

So, everything LL says is true, but don't be afraid to ask honest questions if you really do use the search function first and still need some help.

We need a sticky for this post! :D

I can personally attest to this being true.

Within minutes of a woman posting rude questions and responses, I had several e-mails and PMs from members on this site, complete with links to the posts and screen clippings. I was not the only one given these e-mails. Our Director of Greek Life and a few other recruitment chairs and sorority presidents on campus also recieved them.

Within hours, the alert had gone up and everyone who needed to be was aware of the situation.

If someone is connected enough to answer your questions about Greek Life on a certain campus, they also know enough people at said campus to end your recruitment before it even begins.... if you are rude.

Haven't been on in a while, but really nice post LadyLonghorn. As the college acceptances start rolling in, the chatter of recruitment is starting to pick up between my daugher and her friends. These girls are pretty darn educated these days, and I love the reminder about "death by facebook." Like I tell my girls and their friends, "Behave....because what happens today is on facebook tomorrow."

This is so true! I know it's been said a thousand times but long before recruitment starts you really ought to set your facebook on uber private. If someone searches for you and a nice picture pops up and that's it, that's what they'll remember, and it will seriously help you. If posts of you and your friends talking about each others' alcoholism and how you threw up on Thursday and you're barely wearing clothes in your picture... you better believe they will remember that when they meet you. In the words of someone very wise, "You never get a second chance to make a first impression." In this digital age you better be prepared for the very real possibility that your first impression may be via facebook or GC.

Chiming in with my two cents: always always always assume that everything you post WILL get read by members or your Greek community. I was barely in my chapter a month before my recruitment story started getting passed around campus, got linked and tagged to me on facebook, and was apparently read by women in a number of chapters, ones I had liked in recruitment and ones that I hadn't. And suddenly I was very happy that I had kept everything "things you're grandma would be ok reading" appropriate.

So tweedledee brings up a valid point. How do you write a recruitment story (even when you don't list the school...most experienced GCers can figure out where you are) without a connection being made? My daughter will go through recruitment fall of 2011 and I think it would be fun for either her (if she is willing) or me (if granted her approval) to write such a story. I find the stories that are honest and funny very appealing and educational, but how much detail can you give without everyone knowing exactly who you are? It really is a small world.

Well, Tweedledee's point is that, if written properly, it shouldn't matter if people find out who you are.

I'd like to edit the above to say "Always assume EVERYTHING you post will get read by EVERYONE (including your mom/grandmom/future employers/future spouse/president of the USA).

I wish more people listened to this advice, especially on GC :rolleyes:

That is one lesson I hope I have driven home to my kids. I say if you aren't willing to wear it on a tshirt, don't post it on facebook. Of course I have seen the tshirts in Spencers so maybe I should choose a different description.

Ahh....Spencers. I haven't been there in a hundred years. Glad to know they're still delightfully inappropriate.

Thank goodness it is the store of choice for my kiddo's "gag" gifts. I feel confident, someone, somewhere, considers it high fashion. Everytime we leave, we joke how completely inappropriate it all really is.

And a reminder that even if you post your recruitment story after your recruitment is over, that doesn't mean you can go crazy insulting chapters and being obnoxious. Just because you're a new member doesn't mean you're free and clear to be rude toward chapters that either cut you or you didn't like. People DO have friends in all chapters, and people WILL talk.

If you're a parent you shouldn't write one. Period. No matter how flattering and kind it may be. No matter if your daughter approves. No matter how many moms and dads here think it's interesting, fine or cute. Someone will figure it out and everyone in the Greek system at her school who is aware of it will think of her differently (and not in a good way.) They just won't say what they're thinking to her face.

Feel free to write one if your daughter's okay with it. If you want to post-date it or otherwise disguise the story, that works too. Just don't give any identifying details such as "my redhaired daughter from Alaska is rushing at Bama". You might want to get a new username to do your story in case you've revealed any details about yourself in previous posts.

Loved the original post. But why is "everyone" going to hate on somenoe whose parents are interested in her? I know that most college students hide some things from their parents, but everyone?

Just seems a little paranoid to me, but hey, what do I know? I actually loved my parents!

Someone could have a "Wow, does mommy do everything for her?" attitude about a parent writing a rush story on behalf of/about their child. Even if the kid doesn't mind, some of their friends may think it's weird or clingy for a parent to be that involved in a college-age child's social activity.

We've had many wonderful recruitment threads written by parents...one of the best was justamom's thread in 2001 with her followup a year later! Another one was by a mom whose daughter went Theta at Auburn, another by the mom of a USM Phi Mu, and I can even think of several good threads written by dads! They didn't come off as creepily overinvolved but simply as good reads.

This is a lane swerve although not every NPCer agrees with parents writing recruitment threads (do some consider this borderline helicopter parenting?):

I found justamom's thread strange and think that recruitment threads are one of many things that parents need to just sit back and let their daughters (ya know, the people who are actually going through it) handle. Even if the daughter types it up and lets the parent post it. Step awaaaaaay from the keyboard, parents. :)

Pardon the lane swerve, I just felt like sharing.

If there's a slim chance that a recruitment thread can jeopardize their daughter's recruitment/sorority experience, why take the risk?

They were good reads, but let's face it -- not all our collegiate members are nice and sweet. Some of them are just plain bitchy these days and will do anything to sabotage an innocent girl's rush. Why even give them the ammo?

Things are very different than they were even five or ten years ago. This is not the internet or GC of 2001.

It's irresponsible for a parent to do anything that might negatively affect and/or embarrass their child here or anywhere else. Even if you ask your daughter if it's ok to put her story here, that is putting a decision in the hands of a teenager who is just beginning to learn to be on her own and she may not fully comprehend the short and long term consequences. You're supposed to be the level headed adult.

The people who are saying "go for it" are parents and alumnae. No matter how involved you are with a chapter or your daughter, you honestly have no idea what really happens as an active now. Why in the world would you want to risk your child's happiness to fulfill your need to spill?

I can tell you with 100% certainty that a parent's story here seriously impaired a daughter's recruitment this fall. The parent was warned numerous times, both in PMs and in public, to stop but they didn't. The parent only finally realized what they had done once the recruitment ended with a disappointing bid.

I post these kinds of warnings only with the best interest of the PNMs in mind. I don't do them to get a reaction. Don't turn yourself or your daughter into that girl.

Is the link to that story still here? Or have the mods moved it to the darkside?

Several mods have no idea which story you're talking about. The only stories we can think of are ones in which girls shot themselves in the foot. Possibly there could have been stories where due to various factors like grades, the girl had a bad chance in the first place but we don't remember a mom tanking her daughter's recruitment.

i enjoy the rush threads-as long as the parent is discreet, posts after the fact and says nothing derogatory about any of the chapters(not feeling a connection is fine, unusual conversation is fine-chapter had a party girl, slutty girl rep.-no), i see no problem.

I agree. If the parents use some common sense regarding what they post (omitting identifying details, refraining from being rude as FSUZeta said, etc) and if they just wait until it is over, no harm no foul.

Personally I would consider PNMs posting live recruitment threads FAR more dangerous than parents doing so.

Oh, definitely! I can think of at least 5 PNMs whose threads actually insulted groups on their campuses and only 1 even got a bid. It's easy for parents or PNMs to post-date a thread and/or hide details, as FSUZeta said. Her thread about her daughter is a wonderful example! You can even, as I once did, get another GCer to post your child's thread as "the recruitment of a friend's daughter" and reveal who the PNM is later.

GCer PNMs and parents, it's up to you whether to do a thread. No one else should make this decision for you and if someone doesn't like it, they don't have to read it. Choose your words wisely and you should be fine.

Recruitment threads at all serve little purpose beyound vicarious living of other Greekchatters and watching PNMs crash and burn.

I'm for them stopping altogether. Talk about the different skits or decor or whatever after recruitment, but I'm going to go with no one here being that interesting that we just can't do without hearing every minutae of their thoughts, clothing decisions, or how the sister from house A talked funny. The PNM threads have devolved into endless "dress the PNM" nightmares with people giving advice inappropriate for the campus because they think they know better.

Parents, stop living vicarious through your children. GCers, stop living vicariously through PNMs. These stories serve no greater good.

/now who peed in my Cheerios this morning.

There's always the option of...just not reading them.

No shit. You'll note I did not say "Don't do it because i don't read them."

They end up being hilarious and dramarific because PNMs are dumb, moms are helicopter parents, and no one's special snowflake is that interesting. Nor are GCers actually "helping" when they're flat out wrong about campuses they've never attended but are internet experts on exactly how dress A will look on PNM B.

And retro ones are just boring and rarely get finished. Really what's the point in a blow by blow except as mental masturbation, or a circle jerk by the other GCers - to use a metaphor.

This may sound silly but does posting questions about a certain university rush look bad?

"I didn't see my university listed in the thread where you absolutely need recs. Would you suggest getting recs for State U?" - Fine.


"I wanna know about the reputation of XYZ, PQD (or just "the sororities") at State U." - NOT Fine.


"Would you wear Lilly to Round 3 at State U?" - Fine.


"Would you wear a pink Lilly polo with Palm Beach fit Limeaid Floater Lilly pants?" - NOT fine.

Ok so just general questions not specifics

Exactly. But search first...chances are that the question has already been answered before.

And be aware that if you DO ask about a specific school, you've now told all of GC where you go to school. This is why the search function is awesome.

The point is that not everyone shares your opinion. Nor does everyone else think having interest in the stories of others equates to a "circle jerk".

If they want to post about something they're super excited about, more power to them. If they hurt their own chances in the process, that's on them. If they take only advice from anonymous internet posters instead of also asking their recruitment counselors or Greek life office, that's on them.

Here's the thing. Some people are expecting these things to be a big public blows up on GC when they go wrong, but that isn't always the case. The stuff is happening off of GC in the real world in real time. That was definitely the case of the situation this last fall. You would never know what had happened just by reading the thread here unless someone pointed it out to you and you were also able to read between the lines. It definitely isn't my place to point it out.

If you're the PNM and behave poorly here, that's one thing. You are the ultimate master of your destiny. But it isn't fair for anyone other than the PNM to crater her recruitment here.

I'm well aware that you do not share my opinion.

The stories are pointless, and never in the best interest of those involved. Only sometimes can they turn out to be neutral, they never truly help, and they frequently hurt.

But you're right, some GCers would just, like, totally, die without any update from specialsnowlfake28940. So feel free to say what they do add to the forum, or how they help the writers do anything. Or why they couldn't be replaced with an intro post saying "Hey I'm a new member of XYZ, I just went through recruitment and enjoyed this, that, and the other. One of the chapters had a hilarious skit, but even so XYZ had my heart from pref night on." Done.

No, instead we can hear the deep, innermost thoughts of the PNM as she decides what shoes to wear and tries to figure out which GCer actually knows wtf they're talking about when they tell her what to wear or how gauche her favorite dress looks.