Why so different?
 

I hope I'm not opening a can of worms with this one, but here goes.

I was just rereading some of the threads and it got me to pondering. In your opinion, why do you think the recruitment/rush processes, alumnae chapter setups, etc. etc., of GLO's and BGLO's are so different? I'm not asking anyone to reveal information, and I don't want to know what your international office says about it...I'd just like to know what YOU think.

Honestly, the processes are so different because the organizations nationally are so different. I know that I belong to a smaller national sorority, so resources are probably more limited when it comes to extension, recruitment, alumnae chapters and the like. The larger national sororities have more resources, so they are better able to handle these sorts of things in a quick and efficient manner.

Just a thought http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

Some of the reasons for the differences are due to traditions. Some are due to different points of view. Some are due to what the university requires from all GLO's.

My question to you is: Why do you care? And does it really matter? I'm not trying to sound sarcastic, but I really want know why you would make a post like this--REALLY I DO http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by AKA_Monet (edited March 27, 2001).]

I can't answer for 33girl, but for myself I'm curious because--well, the BGLOs are so active and present on this forum and at my alma mater, and while the GLOs all have an opportunity to get to know one another thru inter-fraternity activities, the BGLO's didn't participate much in that. Its a natural curiosity. I've long admired the intense sisterhood of the BGLO sororities. I had two AKA roommates my freshman year and my Lord, they had so much fun and we so intensely bonded to one another.

I'm rambling, but those are some of my reasons. Simple admiration and curiosity.

amycat - you may say you can't answer for me but you just did! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif That is pretty much why I asked. I'm sorry if I've offended or upset anyone, that was absolutely not my intention. If I'm poking into things I shouldn't be, just come out and say so.

Well, I think that the reason the processes are different is because WE are different. We have a different history and a different culture. As much as people don't want to admit that, it's true. So it would make sense that anything that we create, for us and by us, would be different than anything created for and by white Americans. We are going to create for ourselves what works for us. We are different for the same reason that houses in Florida and Alaska are different: you won't see igloos in Florida. You have to create what works for YOU.

I, personally, don't think you're poking into things you shouldn't be. I hope this helps satisfy your curiousity a little bit. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif

Remember ONE MAIN THING boys and girls WE ARE ALL GREEKS!! We are in the minority no matter who we are and what Greek Organization we belong to. We all have the same feeling about our FRAT/SORO.
I have a lot of fellow Greeks who are friends of mine and are GLO and BGLO.

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Tom Earp LX Z#1
Pittsburg State U. (Kansas)

I concur with my Soror Ideal...

Tom Earp, you're correct. We are all together in this situation.

However, all of are not so deluded to think that there is an intangible line of segregation that goes on in a predominately majority university. Don't ask me why some folks choose to segregate themselves, 'cuz we'd be here all day...

I guess sometimes when you are in a particular ethnic group, you do thangs that no other group does and sometimes other groups don't know about or the info is rather sketchy. It's very difficult to explain. But the best I can describe it as, at my Historical and predominantly Black College and University, HBCU, when the movie "Car Wash" was on, it was played on EVERYBODY's television. EVERYBODY was watching "Car Wash"...

At a predominately majority university, it's just a different flavor, some folks have never heard about the movie, "Car Wash" or "The Mack" or "Hollywood Shuffle". So, it's just not being aware of the variations and nuances of cultures.

IMHO, some African Americans--most of them college educated--are very sensitive and highly aware of these "variations" and "nuances" observed in cultures. Some of us try to understand these differences and reflect it back to our own culture. Whereas, some folks just don't care--but I don't call them educated anyway.

That's what is great boutAmerica, today. (I can't believe I'm saying this). Freedom of Expression is guarenteed by our Constitution. Even my own culture has some negative aspects of it. But for the most part, I choose to interact with my "own" during my off time 'cuz currently I am overstressed and I cannot relay the kind of day I'm having unless you have had similar experiences.

Like today, I got a touch up and the lady took 3.5 hours!!! But my hair is long anyway so that's why and it takes forever to dry!!! Then I have "bad hair" opposed to "good hair" so I have touch ups every 6-7 weeks if I can afford it. I don't know why I just don't go natural or lock it up...

Now if anyone other than my fellow BGLO understood what I just wrote, then explain exactly what happened to me... And not my GDI bruhs and sistas!!! No fair heppin' em out...

The same goes for how other ethnic groups talk about things in their families and cultures. Especially if English is their second language... There are just some words in their language that don't translate to English. So if they chose never to speak their language to describe their living, how to they maintain their self-esteem? Just asking. 'Cuz there's a whole discussion here on GC about the French Canadien issue called "Quebuequoi" which by no means am I an expert, but I am perplexed by the discussion.

[This message has been edited by AKA_Monet (edited March 28, 2001).]

This is exactly what I meant in my post when I said that people don't like to admit it. Yes, we are ALL Greeks. BUT WE ARE DIFFERENT!!! This issue spills over into everything, I see. We can NEVER move ahead if people continually to ignore the fact that we are different. There is nothing wrong with that. IT'S OK! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif We can be different and learn from each other's differences and still respect each other's differences. Please don't blow it off by saying we are all Greeks. That does not mean that we are all the same. In the words of Stuart Smalley, "And that's Okay." http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif

On another note, Tom Earp, about Greeks being in the minority. I used to be a tour guide at my school (Wittenberg University), and we would tell the prospective students about Greek life on campus. When I started giving tours my sophomore year, campus was almost 60% Greek. By the time I graduated, it was only 40% Greek. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/eek.gif Did anyone else experience anything like this on their campus, a decline in Greek life? Do you think it will turn around? I know this is kinda (well, really) off topic, but I just wanted to know how it was across the board. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

I think part of the reason for the decline is things like the ever-rising cost of tuition. When that goes up, other things fall by the wayside, such as Greek Life.

Iotanet discussed covered this subject very well on "But why are the NPHC groups so different" on Greek Life Sept. 20, 2000.

I think it boils down to the fact that NPHC organizations don't recruit potential members. The history is there and an individual decides which organization they want to pursue.

IotaNet dropped this knowledge a few months back:
In my travels in Greekdom, I often find that members of non-NPHC organizations are surprised at how the NPHC groups can be so different than others. I have been thinking about putting together this post for a while to explain (in a non-condescending fashion) how some of these differences came to be.
Hopefully this will shed some light and add some value to the experiences of all the members of this forum. If I make any errors here, please charge them to my head and not to my heart!

The first thing that must be realized is that Black Greekdom is an integral part of Black society. For better or worse, if someone is an "Alpha Man" or a "Delta Girl" or whatever, this immediately conjures up a set of images in one's mind. From the time many Black people are able to read, they are exposed to these images. It is extremely common to hear comments like, "The new Pastor at the Church is a Kappa," or "The principal at my son's school is a Sigma Gamma Rho." These organizations are woven deeply into the fabric of many Black Communities and their collective existence is an accepted fact of life.

Much of this comes from the fact that there are only Nine "Major" Black Fraternities and Sororities. (And until 1996, only 8 were considered "Major." Iota Phi Theta is sort of an "x-factor" ... and the subject of a whole different post! That post can be found here: Question for BGLO Members)

With such a small number of groups, the different organizations were easily categorized and (oftimes unfairly and inaccurately) labeled. It became (and remains) very common to hear people say,"All Alphas are Bookworms," or "All Omegas are wild and crazy." Like any stereotypes, these tend to be very broad characterizations and usually miss the mark. Be that as it may, this typecasting serves to help one mentally categorize the organizations.

To get a deeper understanding of how and why these groups became such a part of the Black experience, one has to take a look at the history of Black America.

Slavery was officially outlawed in the United States in 1865. While there had been many free Blacks in this country prior to then, this was when Blacks in this country became (ostensibly) free of bondage. In the following Reconstruction period, Blacks in America began to seek education in greater numbers and to also address remaining injustices. It is no coincidence that the first 8 major NPHC groups were founded in early 1900's. This was a time when African Americans were beginning to attend college in larger numbers and once there, they began to seek places of academic / social refuge and support.

Now ... think for a minute. The Blacks who were attending college were the "Best and the Brightest." People like W.E.B. DuBois, Mary McLeod Bethune and a host of others. These were the people who were leading the charge of Black education and thought leadership in America. And in many cases, these people were members of Black Greek organizations.

As these people were leading the charge, the (Black Greek) organizations they created became both vehicles and supporters of this charge. Indeed, the people that many Blacks listened to, looked up to, and emulated were members of these groups. Furthermore, these groups had a deep philanthropic bent. From the "Go to high-school, go to college" movement to the Mobile Book projects (where actual libraries on small trucks were driven from town to town), these Black Greek Groups were being heard, seen and felt in Black Communities.

In all fairness, there is another reason that surfaced in those times. From their very inception, more than a few members of these groups tended to be members of "Black High Society" (and make no mistake, there has ALWAYS been a Black High Society in America. Our people could write books on Social Climbing!) If one had aspirations to be a part of this society, joining one of these groups could be seen as a "ticket" into that world ... assuming one could pass the muster of entry.

Lets fast-forward a bit ... into and through the Harlem Renaissance ... the War Years and beyond. As Blacks in America continued to make strides, there was a constant: Many of the thought-leaders were members of each of these Groups. People like James Weldon Johnson, Duke Ellington, Zora Neale Hurston and many, many more were members of Black Greek organizations. And as they moved and shook, they proudly proclaimed their membership in these organizations.

One last point to be made is this: Black Greek organizations have always allowed and encouraged joining their organization at the Alumni level as well as the undergraduate level. This was because the "community building" work that was needed was best done by people who had experience and resources ... political, financial, and otherwise.

Obviously, college students may have had the zeal but they didn't have the means. Alumni chapters provided this. If a Black Greek organization were to sponsor a national convention in a city and it was to serve as a forum for furthering the Black Political/Social Agenda of the day, that agenda was best articulated by members of the organization who had money and clout (e.g. Adam Clayton Powell or Rev. Samuel Proctor).

What developed out of this was a system by which members joined at the undergraduate level and participated in "student oriented" pursuits. Upon graduation, they moved into "Graduate" chapters and began contributing to more far-reaching efforts of the organizations. This transition also served to foster the notion that one is a "Member for Life" because the reason for existence of these groups is one that transcends the college experience.

The upshot of all of this is that Black Greek-Lettered organizations are an integral part of African-American culture and society. In many ways, they form a base for political, social, and economic mobilization in the Black community. This does not make them any better than any other kind of fraternity or sorority - it just makes them much more central to the experience of their total community.

AND ... if you've made it this far in the post, I'm sure you have some questions and/or comments. I look forward to reading them!

[This message has been edited by IotaNet (edited October 06, 2000).]


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...I am standing on the shoulders of giants...

Ideal08,
You ain't never spoke a truer word. (That's just something my granny always says that essentially means AMEN. But, I digress.) A huge problem in this country is sort of a refusal to recognize differences and then, what's worse, to pervert those differences as to illustrate the superiority of one thing over the other.
If everyone could just learn to accept that there we are all different, in the
Greek community as well as in the community at large, and that as you said it's okay, we would be able to begin resolving many deep-seated issues that this nation has.
We are different, let's celebrate that. Let's not efface our differences for the sake of "unity". Unity if it is true, will recognize those differences, those strengths, and understand that they make the whole stronger.
I just restated your whole post, but I just felt that it was something that needed to be reiterated. I really have nothing to say towards the original post, because I am not Greek and can not speak to the way different orgs are run.

You go 6-7 weeks? I get mine every 4 weeks without fail. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif Yesterday was a 4.5 hour day for me and that was without a touch-up. It was a good thing I took a good book with me. (I read "Like Water for Chocolate" and finished it in about 3 hours) But those days are coming to an end because I am going to go natural.

Hoping to look like Roshumba sometime in the near future......LOL. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif

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"Service to others is the rent you pay for your room here on earth." ~Mohammed Ali

[This message has been edited by MIDWESTDIVA (edited March 31, 2001).]

Oooooooh, I loved that book. Have you seen the movie? If not, rent it. It's good.

I haven't seen it yet, but I will. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

I love that book, it's one of my all time favorites. It's a recipe, a legend, and love story, all in one. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif


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@-->---
Pure as Silver, and True Blue!
Alpha Sigma Kappa - Women in Technical Studies

MIDWEST-- You heppin' 'em owyt!!!! Dey cain't know 'bout what it means to say touch up for 3+ hours and finishin' books in dat time!!! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif

Anyhow, mine needs to 4 weeks w/o fail, but I can only afford 6-7 weeks 'cuz it cost so much and the woman I see does a good job... http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif

Gurl, going natural was the best decision I ever made! I definitely don't miss the half-day salon visits. I just wash every few days, trim every 3 weeks (I trim my own hair) and deep condition once a month. Good luck on your journey to natural.



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MCCOYRED
Mu Psi '86
BaltCo Alumnae

Dynamic...Salient...Temperate...Since 1913

Gurl, I use plain old clippers. Sometimes I use the blade guard, but most of the time I just run the clippers over my entire head until no more comes off; then I shape it and I am done. Did I mention that I keep my hair less than an inch long all over?



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MCCOYRED
Mu Psi '86
BaltCo Alumnae

Dynamic...Salient...Temperate...Since 1913

No Comment http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/eek.gif http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/mad.gif



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MCCOYRED
Mu Psi '86
BaltCo Alumnae

Dynamic...Salient...Temperate...Since 1913

I'm really, really sorry. I didn't mean to offend by my post, so I deleted it. I swear that's what my roommate and her friends used to say about good and bad hair, I would never just make something like that up if I hadn't heard it. I should have just followed my first instinct and never posted anything. I'm so, so sorry if I've made any one mad. Just chalk it up to my stupid, stupid ignorant self. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/frown.gif

Come on now. AKA_Monet asked if anyone (who isn't AA) knows what it means. Expect responses. Let's not be overly sensitive about "good hair" and "bad hair".

Thank you pbear19 for having the guts to post anything at all. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

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"Service to others is the rent you pay for your room here on earth." ~Mohammed Ali

AKA_Monet,

I knew you were going to say that. I'm not heppin' em. I didn't divulge any more info than you did. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif


mccoyred,

How do you trim your own hair?


Everyone else,

I'm still waiting for someone to translate AKA_Monet's post.

I completely agree with you there.

pbear19, ignorance is one thing, we are all ignorant about one thing or another. Stupid is a whole 'nother story. Don't call yourself stupid, I'm sure it's not true. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif

Part of your explanation is decent. The other part which I can understand why you are unable to relate is you have had to interpret what folks were saying in your presence... You may have even asked them yourself, but you still do not come from that point of view unless you've had to deal with it. I don't take offense myself. But you have to understand that some people do simply because the language and descriptors used to relay what is "good" and what is "bad", hair... Short, cropped, very tightly curled hair is truly NOT bad. If fact if I had the guts, I would do it myself. And I admire African American women that can "wear" that hair with an attitude!!! However, I chose to "touch up" my hair because I like it long. You still did not describe what a "touch up" is, though. You are getting close. But you are not quite there yet...

I'm still sorry for offending anyone. In the post that I deleted I said more than just the good hair/bad hair stuff, but I deleted it in case any of that was offensive too. I had a wonderful, wonderful roommate my freshman year who taught me all about a lot of things, including her hair. After seeing what she had to go through I vowed to never complain about my hair again! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

What was stupid about what I did, is that one thing I learned from her is how little I know. For everything I learned there are fifty things that I didn't, and several more that I only got partial info about. I know enough to know better than to presume I know anything. I'm sorry I presumed.

Personally, those weren't my opinions about good and bad hair, and I would never have used those words except they were in the original post about having bad hair as opposed to good hair and that making the touch ups take longer. I am still very, very sorry to anyone who was offended, and trust me, I've relearned my lesson about how little I know!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by AKA_Monet:

I got a touch up and the lady took 3.5 hours!!! But my hair is long anyway so that's why and it takes forever to dry!!! Then I have "bad hair" opposed to "good hair" so I have touch ups every 6-7 weeks if I can afford it. I don't know why I just don't go natural or lock it up...

Now if anyone other than my fellow BGLO understood what I just wrote, then explain exactly what happened to me... And not my GDI bruhs and sistas!!! No fair heppin' em out...

By a "touch-up", I am assuming that you went and had your hair extensions re-done. I believe that the process involves washing the hair & extensions, and often includes re-attachment of extensions & then re-styling. The person's own hair is generally kept very short.

By going "natural," I think that you are referring to allowing your own hair to grow out.

"Locking it up" probably refers to braiding either one's own hair, or having a full set of braids attached.

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Am I close?? I couldn't resist this 'challenge', though I am not 100% sure of myself with this one.

Please let me know http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

Jen
Delta Zeta chapter
Alpha Gamma Delta

I am LMAO at your touch-up & loc definition.

However, you are pretty close w/the "natural" def.




[This message has been edited by Mz. Sports Luva (edited April 03, 2001).]

Rather, than risking looking DUMB, why not just ask the question?

Innnncredible.
:shaking my head:

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Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, Incorporated...Every Finer Woman's Dream!

I think you may have missed the earlier part of this conversation. AKA_Monet asked non-AA if they could interpert her statements about 'touch ups" and other African American hair related statements. pbear and Jen are simply trying to answer HER question, rather than getting their own questions answered.

To Canadajen
I don't want you to think I am upset or anything but I was just wondering: Do you think that the majority of Black women have extensions in their hair? I mean if you see a Black woman with long hair, do you generally assume it is extensions? Honestly I'm not trying to be a smart butt, I'm just wondering what you think. If you don't feel comfortable posting your response then let me know and I will give you my e-mail address. Thank you.

[This message has been edited by DST Love (edited April 03, 2001).]

Eclipse - Thank you for your response.

Finer Woman10-A-91: Please read my post.

DST Love,

No worries ... your post did not offend me http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

As for your question, a few Black women that I know do have extensions, or weaves as they refer to them. I also know a number of non-Black women who have done the same thing to their hair as well. On the other hand, I also know a number of other Black women who have naturally long hair.

Hair is such an individual thing. Having said that, what I can say is that I don't generally assume that the majority of Black women have extensions when I see long hair.

I've learned the hard way just how unwise it is to be making assumptions. If I don't know, then I will tend to say so & ask.

Jen http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

Can we have ONE racial discussion without panties getting bunched?

There are over 14,000 posts in this forum and to date, it hasn't happened. We are all college educated people. What is the problem? We all know that most caucasians know little or nothing about "our" hair. Can they learn something today? "We" are familiar with "their" hair texture because they are all over the television flinging their silky hair that has just been washed with Pantene or whatever else. How often do you see products for our hair being advertised on network television? Or "mainstream" magazines? Is it any wonder that they are unfamiliar with our hair? God forbid they should ask one of us, they would probably get their head bitten off.


How are we going to improve race relations in this country when we get upset over trivial issues like the differences between our hair and theirs?

Caucasian greekchatters, continue with your guesses.

I just want to return to the original topic and say:

ahhkbah,
thank you very much for that long post - truely interesting. Especially from an outsiders standpoint. Being European, I really enjoyed getting the insight. Thanks!!
Matthewg

Eclipse and Canadajen,
I did n't miss what was posted. It's okay to say..."I don't have the answer to that question." And if you are really sharp a simple, "Let me get back to you with that answer" will usually suffice. But, hey that's just one sistah's opinion.

Maybe I am wrong to assume that most of the people that frequent these boards are either college grads or in college. There is just NO need to "put yourself out there" with such culturally specific differences. I am sure there are a million phrases not specific to my experience, that I dare not guess answering. Sometimes we really need to just be quiet and let the answer come or ask a knowledgeable source. I am sure it was not AKAMonet's intention to put forth a the question as a "challenge". I would venture to say all if not the vast majority of the African American women on this site knew what she was talking about. It's not a big deal...really, I am not offended. However, I could n't help but to shake my head.

To Canadajen:
Thank you very much for your reply. I really was just curious as to what you might think and what you have encountered. So again, thanks http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif!!

To MIDWESTDIVA:
I completely agree with you which is why I wanted to know what Canadajen thought. You have to first know what someone thinks and why they think it before you can educate someone and that goes for any thing or any issue in life.

I think this forum is the awesome!! I grew up in a prodimenitly black community. I used to go to the beauty shop with my friends when they got their hair done. It was always a day long thing and I would run errands (like getting food for us!!!) and we would sit around and talk all day. It was always something I looked forward to. We moved when I turned 16 though.
The post about someone saying they knew about caucasian hair cracks me up too!! I have really curly hair that is REALLY dry. I have always had to do deep conditioning and I can't wash my hair every day (more like every other day). But hair is really long. It's funny though, cause I always wished I had my friend's hair. It always looked so healthy and shiny, and they always had cute things to do with it!! What can you do with dry frizy curls???
Just some insight from someone who grew up in a diverse culture as a child.

I just have to say that this discussion on hair has been very educational.

...I just wanted to share a little story that's related to this topic...

When I was in second grade one of my best friends Melissa had, in my opinion, the coolest hair ever. She would come to school with it in lots of twists sticking out all over fastened with a rainbow mix of barrettes or braided with colorful shiny beads at the ends.

I thought she was absolutely B E A U T I F U L!!! http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif

I wanted to have hair like hers so badly. I remember asking my mom to "do my hair like Melissa's pleasepleaseplease!" We tried but my stick straight fine hair just wasn't up to it. And then when we tried to get all the barrettes out, my long hair got really tangled, ouch ouch ouch. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/frown.gif

Somewhere I still have a picture of Melissa, Jen (another friend), and me with barrettes all over our hair. Melissa looks fabulous of course; Jen and I just look like total goofballs.

So, yes, while I may be able to flip my hair around like in the Pantene commercials, just think that I spent second grade just wanting "fun pretty hair" like Melissa. http://www.greekchat.com/forums/ubb/smile.gif

Lots of wishes for good hair days for everyone,

G8Ralphaxi