Is hazing the best way?
 

I am wanting to help change a new member program so that hazing is completely phased out. It is not "so bad" as it could be, but it still exists nonetheless.

This being the case, what other people/groups out their have dealt with this transition before?

How did you deal with sentiments such as:

• "this is the way it has always been"
• "it teaches respect"
• "they have to earn it...its the best worst time of your life, but when your fnished you really feel like you have earned something"
• "If we eliminate that part of the pledge process, they won't be nearly as respected"
• "I did it, so should they"
• "It's not so bad...and its gotten much better"
• etc

What was your "pledging" process like? I am looking for new and innovative ideas.

Please HELP!

It depends on how you define hazing.

It's really hard for us to answer without knowing more about what the "hazing" entails, and whether you're a national (who's not following the nationally mandated program and wants to get on board) or a local (who doesn't have as strict of rules, but wants to change for your own good).

I will say that the WORST way to go about eradicating hazing is to completely demean any merit that the current pledge program has. Unless you do nothing but beat them and make them drink 24/7, every program has SOMETHING positive underlying it. Focus on the positive and try to get back to it, rather than harping on the negative.

Fraternity or sorority?

I am talking about a fraternity. I know about and am familiar with national standards (i've given myself a crash course recently). I guess what I am more looking for is a way to eliminate the hazing altogether. Even something as simple as wallsits, which don't seem that bad, seem to contrast the national standard because it is something phyhscial being asked of them.

Has someone gone through a successful program that did not involve hazing, but they still felt that stong sense of brotherhood/sisterhood? You know, the one that everyone says "hazing" is supposed to instill? I think if I can help introduce a new program that can garner the same "results", there will be more buy-in.

Moreover, if anyone feels comfortable doing so, please share what your pledging experience was like..

1. Don't bid worthless people. That way, you won't need to 'weed them out'

2. Follow your national guidelines and procedures

This was posted recently and has great answers to those questions:
http://www.sigmanu.org/documents/forty_answers.pdf

And yes, I went through a successful program that did not involve hazing but still felt that strong sense of sisterhood. Hazing breeds fear, resentment, and inbred idiocy. Holding sisterhood-building events (or brotherhood in your case) enables the new members to get to know one another, have fun, and live the principles of the new organization. Most GLOs were founded on sisterhood/brotherhood, academics, service, support, compassion, etc. Not hazing. We were not founded on wall sits and the ability to do wall sits does not make you a better member.

What mine looked like... We met weekly to learn about the sorority and chapter. We had casual lunches and dinners with our pledge class & actives. Actives decorated our doors with balloons and welcome messages. We had a sleepover. We did crafts projects (painted pottery, made jewelry, etc). We played games. We got to know people. We had fun. Nothing new and innovative there- we just weren't hazed.

What kind of organization is this? If this is a national organization, I would think that you have an official national process that you should be following - nothing more, nothing less. Follow it.

There is a national standard and that is what i am wanting move towards. On the same note, I love my brothers and this brotherhood. There is always resistance to change, that is obvious. I am looking for either advice or what others have successfully gone through or implemented this kind of change.

I want to create change but not at the expense of losing half of my brothers. They really are not bad people, they just don't know anyother way. That's why I am posting on a public forming and seeking assistance/guidance.

Haven't I seen you post in The Root?

Your name looks familiar.

I am not sure what the Root is

So, you're a good person and you want to improve your chapter - awesome, congratulations!

I know a lot of guys like you, in fact I've been a guy like you, and the biggest mistake good guys on a mission make is in their delivery. A lot of times it's easy to get caught up in your good ideas and forget that you need to translate it to people the right way. Don't be abrasive, don't overwhelm people - take baby steps, don't insult something that they think is right and working and "made" them into good brothers. Like 33girl said, don't demean something that has made a personal impact in their life, just try to translate it into something that is legal and in line with the values of your organization. Finding a program isn't hard, your national organization has given you that, what you need is to gently convince your chapter that it is going to have more successful results than what you're doing now.

Yes, hazing is the best way. Thanks for asking.

Thank you for your reply...it is very insightful and helpful

DrPhil....sarcasm not appreciated. I am really trying to make a difference here and be an agent of change. If you can't be constructive, then please don't waste my time by replying

Or you can not waste your time by reading and replying.

What a busy time you have when my reply is wasting it. Don't be so easily knocked off of your horse. You will find it very difficult to transition from rhetoric to change.

I'd rather not see this turn off topic into a bunch of useless/sarcastic replies, since there is a lot of potential for the thread, so I'll try to steer the ship back before we head into the iceberg:

OP: Are you the only one who wants change? Get a group of other like-minded people together before telling your chapter why they need to change. If you have a group of people already supporting you, it will make it harder for people ingrained in the hazing mindset to say, "Well that's only one person in the chapter, who cares?"

If your brothers are still all for hazing, you should speak with your advisor and regional director.

Like other have said, change needs to happen slowly otherwise your chapter may implode on itself. But if the hazing is incredibly risky/potential for bodily harm or death/risk for your charter to be taken away, you need to get rid of that stuff ASAP.

Yes, do this and assure being socially ostracized for not only your remaining years in college, but pretty much any alumni event you attend in the future.

And you could've typed your post without this.

This thread is practically useless and threads like this encourage people to come to GC for things that aren't GC material. The OP has a national organization with a national standard that most likely provides assistance with how to address such issues. Yet, he is on GC for advice which is never a good idea. Either way, he needs to understand that there are and will always be people who believe that hazing is the best answer. If my saying that sarcastically gets a response then he has a difficult road ahead of him. He has yet to show his brothers that hazing isn't the best answer because he is still searching for even the most basic advice on how to do so. His difficulty is linked to the fact that it isn't solely his job to show his brothers that hazing isn't the best answer. He needs to search for the most basic answers to this question outside of GC and get assistance outside of GC by contacting representatives from his organization.

Or stay quiet, something bad happens, then find yourself and the chapter facing charges and a civil suit ($$$). Then you're kicked out of the fraternity and probably your school.

Then again, I assume the worst when it comes to hazing. The OP said it's "not so bad," but I have no idea what they are cocmparing it to. "Not so bad" could be tossing peanuts at pledges when they mess up the greek alphabet, "not so bad" could be paddling. I only recommend going to your regional director if it's a substantial issue. (Like, involving bodily harm vs. Having pledges clean up after a party).

If you approach the situation from a "hey, I'm concerned we could get into trouble and lose our charter" standpoint, you'll be much better than approaching from a "you all are hazing and should be punished for it" standpoint.

That depends. There are different ways to go about speaking to an advisor or regional director without telling them that hazing is an issue. I have seen it happen a few times where concerned members reach out by saying that they are looking for membership ideas that highlight the many positives of sisterhood/brotherhood.

Afterall, his taking the basic ideas (these ideas are extremely basic) from this thread and trying to incorporate them could also lead to his being ignored, laughed at, ostracized, etc. Who wants to be around a sister or brother who is telling them that they are doing it all wrong? Who wants to be around a sister or brother who is acting as though he or she has figured it all out?

What the OP is trying to do can fail and so can speaking with a formal or informal organizational representative. Since the OP came to GC seeking advice, I would never advise someone beyond telling them to speak to their GLO's representative (since speaking to the chapter has obviously not worked yet).

Too late.

This very response opens the door to useless and sarcastic replies. Like I told the OP when he went all huffy over what Dr Phil said, ignore it.

That separates folks that are serious for answers to folks who just want to start threads so they can be center of attention.

Agreed. It's all in the approach. Coming across as 'holier than thou' addressing hazing issues in the chapter will undoubtedly get you laughed out of the chapter room. Coming across as concerned might bring more people out of the woodwork and win you some support.

To be honest with you, the OP can easily come across as holier than thou and probably even quick to intolerance and anger when chapter members defend the existing new member program. Even saying that you (in general) are trying to change a new member program automatically gets a negative response from many people. Then saying it isn't "so bad as it could be" just seems like you're (in general) contradicting yourself as though you aren't too sure of what the issues are.

I suspect this is not your intent, but your second paragraph comes off as sounding like you think you are an inherently better person than a lot of guys in your chapter. You may have a good idea here depending on your specific circumstances, but with age and experience I can tell you that marketing an idea is even more important than the idea itself when it comes to successful implementation. Do a Google search on the war between Beta and VHS many years ago for a good example. Beta was a superior product, but it is VHS players that prevailed until DVDs came along.

Defining hazing is very important for you at this point. You need to come up with a concise definitition of exactly what you want to eradicate and why. One suggestion I would have is to do another Google search- or check your college's Greek Life site- and read the hazing laws in your state.

I have read many such laws and while they provide specific examples of what COULD be hazing, the overriding spirit of such laws gets to the intent of the activity and what it actually does to pledges in terms of forcing them to break the law or be truly "humiliated".

Forcing a pledge who is 18 years old to drink until he is drunk and then drive a vehicle is a no-brainer. Major law violations. But who really does that? These black and white scenarios are rarely the reality.

Let's take something that is a bit more gray- requiring a pledge to learn fraternity lore. It is a necessary exercise- but in many laws it is cited as an example of hazing depending on how the requirement is enforced.

A pledge is required to learn, each week, fraternity history. Do you consider this hazing?

Let's say a pledge must take a test each week covering material he was supposed to learn the prior week. Hazing?

If the pledge takes the test and gets below a 70, he has to do 20 pushups. Is this hazing?

If the pledge gets below a 70 on the test and is banned from social events until he gets a 70 or greater on this test- hazing?

If the pledge gets below a 70 on the test and is placed before a kangaroo court of actives who scare him into thinking he will get depledged if he does not get a 70 or better on a future retest- is this hazing?

The pledge gets below a 70 on the test and is pestered by actives when he is at the house with questions on the same material, and minor punishments like pushups or washing cars until he starts getting the answers right. Is this hazing?

The pledge gets below 70 on a lore test and is automatically dropped from pledgeship. Not hazing- rather he failed to meet a basic requirement. This is the option that has you 100% free and clear of ever being accused of hazing, but is this the tone you want to set? I can tell you this is not how things work in the real world- which fraternities are supposed to mimic and prepare members for professional success.

These are the questions I would suggest you ask yourself as you plan your new pledging program. As my last example showed- there is a way to make pledges prove their worth by their effort to become members without ever doing anything that anyone could ever consider hazing- but it also means acting in a way that is counter to what fraternities are all about.

One other thing to consider- remember that INTENT is the most important thing when looking at acts that could be considered hazing.

When I was a pledge, one night we had to do a mini tour in neckties and our underwear- and nothing else- and serenade several sorority houses. They loved it- and it made a good story for all of us to reminisce on later.

Some might consider this hazing, but it was not hazing in the illegal sense of the term. Those who were too uptight to participate would not only make bad pledges, but were also probably not suited for any kind of membership in any kind of group where people have a little fun at their own expense to make the world a little more interesting, even if only for a few moments.

When it comes to dangerous hazing activities, I will tell you that I think alcohol is the absolute #1 contributor to pledge activities gone wrong.

Three simple rules can save a chapter from the worst 99% of the time;

1. Noone is forced to drink.
2. Sober active executive officers are present at every pledge activity and have the guts, chapter respect and/or physical presence to prevent anything from getting out of hand.
3. Noone- and I mean noone- gets into a car or is left alone (especially in the wild) after having anything to drink.

You take care of this- and you have covered the three most common hallmarks of situations that result in non-productive pledge activities, injury and death.

I for one would love to see a very honest and open conversation about hazing on this forum- and the seeds of it are here already. But OP- please consider your position in greater detail and report back. There are many people here with good answers, but we need to know where you draw the line and your underlying reasons for drawing that line.

Hope this is helpful.

Thank you EVERYONE for your replies. They have been really helpful so far! I guess the biggest hurdle I am facing right now is that brothers want to keep the "spirit" of the hazing but are starting to understand that they shouldn't haze. However, they still have that "tick" that says "we went through it...why should they get a free pass...they should earn their way into this chapter". I want to try to keep that same spirit while eliminating the negativity.

I have ideas such as having them complete a project or addition to the house, as a class, before they can initiate. A common cause they can come together for, depend on each other to complete and must have finished it "on time" so there is still the pressure of a deadline. This can be an addition in or outside of the house, but something where they are also able to leave their mark.

I want them to have required study hours, weekly quizzes on history and fraternity information, etc. I want to build them up instead of them being torn down. How is them doing a brothers laundry or washing cars being an "addition" to the house? How is it helping them as a person? How does it relate to the fraternities values and principles?

I have a team of guys who are on my side. However, as I mentioned previously, they still want the new guys to respect the house and the letters as much as they do and unfortunately, the only way they know is through hazing because that is how they were brought in.

I have people willing to support change. I have the national program for my chapter, but I am seeking others opinions, ideas, etc so I can truly create a phenomenal program. This is a unique opportunity that I have to really implement change. I want to do it the best possible way instead of making a change that is just "good enough" for now and then has to be continuously updated. As I am sure we can all agree, change the window opportunity for change only opens every now and then so now that there is an opening, I really want to take advantage of it.

Can anyone share what their pledgeship was like? What kind of stuff did you do with your class? Was it just meetings about the fraternity and history? Were there tests? Does anyone know of any team building exercises that are useful?

I am seeking help from GC because I value the knowledge of others. I know what my National HQ wants me to do, I am curious to what others have done. That way, maybe I can make a good program even better. Further, maybe some ideas can come out on this forum that can help others that are having similar issues.

Again, thank you all for your replies so far. I look forward to reading some more insightful thoughts and on to make this very important change.

I'm sorry, but what others did during their programs is irrelevant. If your organization has a system in place, you need to try to move toward using that. I could tell you that my class did sheep herding because it was related to our ritual, but that wouldn't help you.

Just try to reinforce what your I/HQ already has in place.

Good luck.

This is where we are disconnecting. You are talking in idealistic terms, and I am asking you to think about the practical aspects of the program you want to put in place. Rules you set now will only work if they are honored by the chapter in practice as well as in principle.

Required study hours are considered hazing by many definitions- and I personally do not think they are a good idea. Where will study hours take place? If you have a pledge who is doing fine on grades and gets most of his work done in labs, do you want to force him to come to study hours in addition to what is already working for/expected of him? If he comes- will the environment be conducive to the one in which he personally works best? You are talking about putting structure and rules into place- and you have to consider EVERY scenario that could come up since rules have to be enforced equally and making exceptions for certain people in practice as exceptions come up will not work.

And on the quizzes, what are the consequences if someone is failing quizzes and not learning the lore? It is one thing to say pledges need to "learn the lore", but how do you make sure it happens? How much is learning the lore an absolute requirement versus the attempt being a symbol of someone's serious interest? What if you have an A+ pledge who just does not have the time to be a whiz at the lore due to his school schedule?

You are speaking to ideals- the question now is what are the practical standards you which to enforce, and how will they be enforced? This is not an easy question, but the answer is there if you can slow down and really think through the mechanics of what you are trying to achieve.

What are you trying to achieve? What about your chapter gives you concern about how pledgeship is conducted? What did you personally feel about your own pledgeship? How did that differ from what your pledge brothers feel about it? Where do you want to go with this initiative?

I think you must have had some rough experiences with required study hours, EE-BO. We require study hours for all of our members and, while chapters can determine the number/type, generally they have a sliding scale, based on GPA and computer lab hours count. There is a lot of flexibility in how they can be set up, from study groups for members who are in the same classes/majors. You can pair up an upperclassman with a new member/associate/whatever your group calls them who has the same major. You can set up tutoring opportunities so someone can say "I'm struggling with ____, who can help?" You can get bigs brothers and little brothers to spend some time on academics together.

I'm not a big fan of weekly quizzes, but I'm more of a fan of trivia game type methods of learning the "lore". Maybe a lot of this stuff is too girly for fraternity men but I've seen some really creative stuff like "what would this founder's facebook page look like?" to learn about the founders. Or, make it more businesslike and created a LinkedIn for each founder.

You can earn letters without being hazed. There can be expectations that membership is based on. You can try to take current traditions and change them up slightly so as not to "lose" traditions, but make them less risky.

Ultimately, you have to have buy in from the chapter or nothing will work. Getting THEIR ideas is a good way to get them to support the program.

Too often (esp if other Greeks are doing them) study hours at the library or other campus buildings turn into social hours. There isn't always a place conducive to studying in the house.

Regardless of national rules, the way I determine hazing is whether an activity has ANYTHING to do with learning things about the national org, the local chapter or the national and local Greek community - or is it something that they're just being made to do for the hell of it, so the initiated members can have "power" over them? Unless your founders include Jack Daniels, Jack LaLanne and the Marquis de Sade, that lets out drinking, physical hazing and beating. OP - maybe look at your pledge program in that way and then go from there.

Best. Fraternity. Evar.

LOL.

However, for national organizations, there is no such thing as "regardless of national rules." Generally speaking, collegiate chapter evaluations as they pertain to hazing should be based on the national GLO's policies and procedures, the school's anti-hazing policies, and any laws that are in place.

I know that. I just think that given what he's said so far, if he comes in saying "well these are our national rules and blah blah blah" he'll get nowhere, if not make things even worse. I'm suggesting he come at it from the back door, as it were.

If his national organization doesn't do "inake training," his chapter can discuss conducting an intake training where they remind themselves of their organization's policies and the proper ways to teach and reinforce those policies. Expousing personal opinions of the utility of some of the (hazing) practices can fail miserably--and people can end up trading one form of hazing for a perceivably less harmful form of hazing that is still hazing. Instead, I think that communicating organizational rules in a brotherly fashion is the context in which all of this should be done because those who can't grasp the brotherhood of it all will hopefully grasp a deterrence effect.

One of the problems that I have with what you said "the way I determine hazing is whether an activity has ANYTHING to do with learning things about the national org, the local chapter or the national and local Greek community" is that there has always been hazing that was done to get people to learn/memorize and relay information. For instance, getting pledges to jog around a track for 5 miles while reciting the Greek alphabet and chapter information works wonders for some people because some of them NEVER EVER forget that experience and what they learned. Then they have the next sets of pledges for years to come do it because it works for learning stuff. Then it's a slippery slope because someone will eventually refuse to do it, complain, or get hurt from doing it.

AGDee, what 33girl says is exactly the trouble I encountered. We always did study hours at the house- which has obvious problems. At one point, my chapter starting using a classroom after hours- but with just pledges and a couple of actives in there, it quickly devolved into "social time".

If we had been at the library- different story potentially.

My issue with study hours in general, however, was something that is core to my personality- as long as I am getting the job done I absolutely resist any effort by others to force me into some kind of management of my time etc. It is more genuinely problematic for science or engineering majors who may do all of their studying in labs where they have instant access to classmates or to online systems to facilitate their work.

I do agree however with the mentoring idea- be it actives or alumni. When I was an advisor, we had an alumnus who was a college professor and served as the academic advisor. He made a huge difference for the chapter- presentations once a semester on tips for studying, career advice and also general academic mentoring. It had a profound impact on the chapter's GPA.

To the OP- hope we have not scared you off. I am being aggressive with my questions because what you want to do is something that someone in every chapter wants to do every year. It is a common, and noble goal. But most of the time it never gets anywhere because the person taking the initiative is not considering some of the factors already discussed here and ends up discouraged- which is bad for that person and a loss for the chapter.

I had the same issue with study hours until we went to the sliding scale system which greatly reduced how many hours I had to do :) I did have a hard time focusing when there were lots of people around, even when they were quiet. I often tutored other sisters during study hours, which was still helpful to the chapter's overall goal... maintaining a high GPA. We had "honor hours" where you just turned in your hours and "proctored hours" which included library hours with sisters or labs of any kind, actually. The higher your GPA, the fewer "proctored hours" you had to do. I could see it becoming social hour pretty easily under some circumstances. They usually included time at the tutoring center as proctored hours too. I think chapters need to find what works for their group.

This system is EXACTLY what my chapter could have used- and I hope a lot of scholastic chairs read it and take note. A perfect mix of trusting your fellow brothers/sisters as adults, and also looking out for them at a formative time in life.

EE-BO, you have not scared me away, haha. Just been taking it all in and thinking...while juggling classes of course.

Okay, here is the thing. I am not trying to come across as "holier than though" or that I am inherently "better" than any of my brothers...my issues lies in the fact that I transferred in recently. I am from a chapter where hazing was virtually not existent so this is a new environment for me. My story has encouraged and convinced some brothers that change is necessary, not just for their own safety but for the betterment of the pledge as well.

The part that gets tricky is that even though they want to change, they want to somehow hold on to the "spirit" of hell week...in a sense...but not the dangerous, humiliating, ridiculing part of it. They still want to class to really come together that week and help each other out and feel like they are truly a unit...which I can understand that, but the way that has been cannot be anymore...so...

I have been trying to brainstorm some "middle ground" tactics and after talking with some friends at various other fraternities, here is kind of what has been compiled. Most of this list actually came from a friend of mine down south. My question is, would this be okay? Or is this just another "diminished" form of hazing and would be unacceptable as well?

1. The pledges stay at the house for the entire week. This is for a few reasons. One is to remove them from the normal pressures and constraints of society so they can really focus on the lifelong commitment they are about to take. Give them a chance to really get to know each other, the brothers and be truly comfortable in the house by living there.

-This will NOT be a time for brothers to take "advantage" of having the pledges around. No personal amusement, ridicule, and adequate and appropriate time will be given for sleep each night...at least 8-9 hours. This is a time for THEM to come together, not for brothers to have one last week of "fun"

2. They can only talk to pledge brothers and initiated brothers, except for emergencies and unavoidable classroom exercises...and study groups. This is again, for them to really start focusing on the next step they are about to take. A chance for them to really get to know one another and again, to focus.

3. No electronics for the week, except for necessary classroom exercises, homework, projects etc. So, no TV, Computer, facebook, etc. This is kind of like a "20th century detox". Instead of spending mindless hours watching tv, surfing the web, etc, they are to use this time to read, do homework, go to the gym, go outside to play a sport, just something that doesn't involve a tv screen. This is to also help them to meditate and maybe even force someone of them to actually talk to one another. Not that they don't want too, haha, but in todays age, its so easy to be in the same room as someone as else but be so engrossed in tv/computer that you barely talk at all.

4. They must be with another pledge brother at all times. This takes careful planning and proper time management. Whether going to class, going to the gym, going to the library, etc, they need to have at least one other pledge brother with them. This goes back to reinforcing having a brother with you, truly beginning to create that lifelong bond of friendship and really getting to know your pledge brother before becoming a lifetime brother.

5. Start a project on Monday that will need to be finished by the end of the week. It can be an addition/improvement to the house or something that is simply hung up in the house. This is like the pledges gift to the house, if you will. They can be creative here, the sky is the limit. And they must all have some part in completing it.

I would like to say that in NO WAY do I or will I support negative reinforcement. No punishments for "failure to comply" rather encouragement and positive motivation. Reminding them or explaining to them WHY we are asking them to do certain things, what we hope to accomplish, etc. Further, i will reiterate that they pledges are not here for the brothers personal amusement...that will be strictly enforced and luckily, I have a few brothers who already agree with me on this front so I will have support.

Is this just a more "diminished" version of hazing and the week should just be cancelled? I am not saying this is exactly what is going to be done, this is just a list I compiled while talking to friends in other chapters. I thought most of this might help to meet that middle ground with some of the guys. It removes the pointless exercising, ridicule and humiliation but I think it would still keep that "building that bond of brotherhood" aspect...just in a more positive way.

I am really hoping to get some opnions on this list and maybe even refine it before bringing up to MY nationals, which I intend to do...I just don't want to bring unwanted suspicion to my chapter...they are wanting to change...and I am simply trying to help.