Sorority pledge misbehavior
 

My daughter pledged this year at one of the big SEC schools . Evidently the party girls in her pledge class are defying the actives, and partying (with alcohol) outside of organized swaps and have been caught several times. My daughter is tired of the group punishment and being yelled at every week by the president and pledge trainer. She and her friends are not part of this group. I've been able to talk her into staying so far, but may not in the long haul. Her chapter has a great reputation on campus, and I understand they want to keep it that way, but my daughter is unhappy with the mood in the house.
Her pledge social chair is intentionally antagonizing the chapter president. Are chapters not able to de-pledge girls that are risk management issues?

This is none of your business - it is the chapter (and national org's) business to deal with. You have no idea what is going on internally with the actives to handle this, nor does your daughter. A lot goes on beyond the scenes that new members never see or hear about.

Let them handle it.

And if your daughter is so unhappy, why are you encouraging her to stay in it?

Forgot to QFP

It is definitely none of musicmom's business.

Truth.

Vicariousness.

It's her business if she's paying for it.

NO

Not really. Maybe it's her business between her and her daughter, but she has no privity with the chapter itself. The chapter doesn't answer to her.

Shame on the daughter for sharing this crap with her mom.

Though it also wouldn't be the first time where the daughter wasn't being entirely truthful to her mom, and the daughter was herself one of the troublemakers.

My mom paid my dues. I would tell her a lot of stuff about the chapter and whatever was bugging me about it. She was a good sounding board because she had no stake, and didn't really know what was going on. If I ever found out that she'd gone to a message board and aired the things I was complaining about, I would be mortified.

Musicmom, this is bad form and if your daughter learns of this she will probably stop sharing her life with you.

I didn't say that her putting this on a message board was the right thing, fyi.

If your parents paid for it, and weren't as intrusive as you believe her to be, fine, great for you.

The fact of the matter is, since it's her money (if she is in fact paying), if she doesn't like what's going on, she can stop paying in 2 seconds.

Obviously she doesn't want her daughter to be upset, and right now it appears to her that the sorority is upsetting her. We don't know the story and she probably doesn't either.

IMO, the daughter needs to come to a decision herself and tell mom what she wants to do. However, if the mom is paying and decides to stop, the daughter really has no say.

There are threads that make you laughsnort before you even open them, just from the title. This is such a thread.

Unless the sorority is attempting to enforce a dry pledgeship - which has been recognized as hazing since the 1970s - and unless the girls are wearing their letters and representing their getting together as a sorority event, the sorority really can't do squat. Just because you pledge a sorority does not mean they can control every minute of your day. I think the real issue here is that there's a division in the pledge class.

And yes, I realize these girls can be punished for drinking underage - but if that occurs, then every pledge AND sister that drinks underage needs to have the same punishment.

Daughter can get a job like the gazillion other collegiate sorority members who pay their own dues (past and present).

Of course she can. But that doesn't equal the right to stick her own nose in chapter business, which is what people are criticizing here.

If mom stops paying, then daughter can decide if and how to pay for it herself.

That still doesn't make their discipline her business.

If she decides to stop paying, that doesn't necessarily mean the daugher needs to stop pledging.

And no, it's still none of her business.

FWIW, mom asked if the sorority could de-pledge the OTHER girls.

Which, again, is none of her business - no matter who is paying.

Groups of people tend do their own self-policing (much like kids in a school yard when "the whole class" gets in trouble) for something one or a few people did.

Read between the lines.

I meant daughter has no say about her mom paying, not whether she can find a way to finance herself. She can do whatever she wants to raise the money herself.

I'm surprised that you guys seem so offended by the asking to de-pledge other girls. Obviously she can't do that, so I don't see why anyone would be bothered by that. Besides, I think it's obvious that she's overall more concerned about her daughter's happiness rather than the other pledges. I think it's ridiculous if you think that daughter's happiness is not the root of all of this. Her daughter is her business.

Splash, perhaps you missed this earlier comment of mine.

Well maybe her daughter needs to take the stick out of her ass.

Seriously, if she's going to whine to mom every time someone has a party without her she's going to have a really miserable life.

I think it's a matter of "my daughter shouldn't be punished for something that someone else did".

It happens all the time. In elementary school, someone throws a spitball, but the whole class gets in trouble. On sports teams, someone screws up a play, and the whole team has to do laps. In high school, three people steal a copy of the test and the entire class has to re-take it. You work in a restaurant where you pool tips (all tips are collected and divided), and one sucky worker who gets rotten tips ends up reducing each person's portion.

It happens everywhere. There's a reason and a purpose. Can you - Splash or OP - not see that?

How the sorority operates is none of her business. Asking online whether the chapter can de-pledge the troublemakers is NONE OF HER BUSINESS. Furthermore, her daughter is an adult and should be making these decisions on her own. Meaning, it's NONE OF HER BUSINESS! I don't understand why you keep insisting that it is.

First, to the OP, this truly is something your daughter needs to handle since there really isn't anything you as her mother can do about it. I would suggest that she and her group of friends request a meeting with the president or standards officer and take it from there.

As to paying for it=privy to it...my parents paid for my membership, but my mother never asked for information on internal affairs (probably because she is Greek and knows better). I believe they have a right to know what they're paying for and would have been glad to show my parents the breakdown of dues and where the money went. But that's it.

A dry pledgeship is hazing unless every sister, both new member and active, is held to those standards and somehow I doubt they are unless it is something required by nationals. However something my mother told me before I joined was that sororities do have some amount of control over your life. You can be sanctioned or expelled for bad/illegal behavior. If Active Amy is drinking underage at her apartment with one other sister who isn't going to tell on her and Nancy New Member is underage, dancing on stage at the bar with a beer in hand, it's going to be Nancy who finds herself in trouble. Fair or not. Discretion is key.

That doesn't make it right. No one said life is fair, but I do not believe in treating an entire group badly for the mistakes of one or two members. I would have had a problem with it as a new member were I in this girl's situation. On the other hand, I would have gotten a few girls who agreed with me and gone to an officer to talk about my concerns.

I totally agree that it doesn't make it right, but that's how life is. Right now, I'm in medical school and when one student in our class screws up (not preparing for case studies, leaving the lab messy, etc.) our entire class pays for one person's mistake.

It isn't ideal nor is it "right" but it's how the "real world" is.

I do agree that musicmom's daughter has every reason to be irritated if she really is innocent. I am sure, however, she simply complained to her mom in passing and didn't expect her to actually attempt to DO anything about it.

After all, I have complained to my mother, just in conversation, about things both in my chapter and currently, in medical school. I would have been beyond mortified if my mother had decided to take those simple pieces of conversation and post them on a message board for all the world to see.

I just don't see anything wrong with her and her friends who are innocent attempting to talk to the powers that be in the chapter. It might be how the "real world" works and yes, sororities are definitely supposed to help you prepare for that, but it is a sisterhood.

Agree that it would be very inconvenient for me had my mother talked piblically about all the things I coplained to her about in the years I was an active. She was my sounding board when I was frustrated since she is Greek and could offer objective advice (one example: Stop sweating the small stuff and remember this is a group of 18-22 year old women. They WILL behave childishly at times, and so will you. That was a good thing to remember.)

There is not enough information here to judge what's going on in the chapter. (Is it hazing or not? Is the 'punishment' appropriate reactions to Risk Management issues or not?) But that's ok since it's none of the mom's business anyway.

Either pay for dues with the conditions up front* or don't pay them at all.

*Reasonable conditions include keeping grades up, not getting in trouble with campus security/police/whatever, and so on.

This, plus "and I want to know what can be done about it, because I think they should depledge the troublemakers."

Parents can be great emotional outlets, but I think it goes too far when they try to handle things with their adult children.

All I have to say is: daughter needs to handle it herself by seeking advice from the appropriate people, which may include her pledge class, sorority's president, pledge educator, or even Greek Life advisor!

This is true. But it is her doing it in public that makes her a target for discipline, not her new member status.

I would like to know what "partying" entails as nebbymom wrote in her original post. If that's all it is - a faction of the pledge class sitting around someone's apartment and having a beer - or even a faction of girls going out to a party together - IMO the pledge trainer is way out of line for bitching at them to begin with. Is it rude to divide up like that? Yes. Does it happen all the time (especially at a school w/ ginormous pledge classes)? Yes.

In answer to OPs question, yes, new members can be depledged if they are a risk to the chapter. However, and this is what everyone has been going on about, we can't say if that is the appropriate measure in this case. Your daughter could be making a mountain out of a mole hill, or the chapter could be in free-fall, or one of a thousand points in between. As a college woman and a new sorority member, this is a good time for her to learn how to deal with political infighting and awkward situations herself.

I would continue to be a shoulder for your daughter, but do stay out of it and don't tell your daughter what to do about it. You could end up getting your foot in it and causing her and yourself a great deal of trouble.

But I can tell you with confidence that if the new members are partying so hard that it is causing a disruption to the chapter, their grades will suffer and the problem with resolve itself. And that's probably what the chapter is doing - waiting for the problem to resolve itself.

I'm willing to bet it's some ridiculous hard partying. I can believe that, because it's so easy to get wrapped up in partying that first semester of college and carry it too far. There's a difference between everyone going out to a party and having a few beers and girls going out, getting trashed, and getting into ridiculous shenanigans.

This

And this

I think OP is just asking us about the situation. She didn't say she was making calls or demanding bids be revoked. Her daughter probably called upset and over-dramatized the situation. Now mom is asking, "is this typical? are there repercussions? etc"

Also, by my calendar, it is just about time for new members to leave the honeymoon period (if they pledged before school started). School is getting tougher, no one is kissing the pledges' rears telling them how great they are 24/7. For parents, this is the time that many have to become a cheerleader for their freshman. Sounds like this is what is happening with OP's daughter.

I don't think the OP went overboard - she is just venting after listening to daughter.

Just read the entire thread. My take:

1) The second post in this thread by Dr. Phil = Agree/Win/Yes etc.

2) The OP never said anything about "paying for school"; how/why does that enter into the discussion and become any sort of factor? We don't know anything about the finances, and it isn't relevant to the OP's question(s). Further, does paying for something give someone the right to control everything? Don't think so. IMO if the daughter is cutting classes and failing everything, then yank the financial backing. I was a crazy party animal (hard to believe, I know) but my GPA rocked, because my dad was footing the undergraduate bills and that was our agreement. My GPA went below a 3.5, school was over for me on his dime. POWERFUL incentive to do well.

3) Chapter Business, folks. Chapter Business. Trust the process. It works.

4) Let Go, OP, Let Go. Your daughter's experience is tuition in the School of Life.

It can happen with small pledge classes, too.

Then again, I pledged "old school" when you "rise together, you fall together" was standard.

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I really don't think you should make that statement unless you are privvy to the policies of every chapter at which the OP's daughter could possibly be a pledge.

To be fair, she did say that they CAN be depledged, not that they WILL be depledged. I think that's accurate.

And considering one university had 8 sorority new members hospitalized their first night out this year, I think it's worth taking seriously.

Mommy only knows what "DD" told her and we know daughters NEVER stretch the truth with their helis. Mommy is just pissed she has no control of the situation. Personally it sounds to me that DD is not the most popular member of the pledge class and isn't getting invited to things because she has a stick up her ass. And that has her upset.

That's a whole lot of assumption based on little information.

Likewise with me. My dad paid and couldnt have cared less otherwise. He is greek himself so he understood well about what was/wasnt his business. He never asked and I never shared.