Help: Examples of Reform After Hazing Charges
 

I am an alumni of a fraternity that has been found guilty of hazing for infractions such as pouring beer on new members and requiring them to wear hoods while moving between initiation stations. The judiciary committed believes that expulsion for 10 years is the only punishment appropriate for any type of hazing no matter the degree. They believe no reform is possible. I hope to contest this believe by compiling examples of fraternities that were able to improve themselves and move past charges of hazing.

Does anyone know of any cases where a fraternity was disciplined for initiation practices and were able to successfully reform their new member programs? If you are a member of such a fraternity, could I use yours as an example? I am sure many cases exist, but I am having difficultly finding specific documentation on them. The newspapers love to publish the cases of fraternities getting in trouble, but not cases where the succeed in improving themselves.

If you prefer not to post such information to the forum, please private message me.

Thank you very much for your help,
Matthew

QFP

Telling us how you hazed your pledges just sounds like you're bragging.

I disagree.

The OP probably felt the need to share the specifics in order to compare and contrast respondents who might have done worse and their penalties.

OP, sorry that I can't provide any specifics. I think most organizations take the stance that active hazers cannot be reformed. Unless there was a way to prove that not everyone in the chapter was actually there, you might be out of luck. Otherwise, you're part of a culture of hazing and therefore a liability to your organization/campus until you're gone.

Ehh, I feel like he could have asked for examples of varying degrees of punishment for different hazing activities if that's the point he was trying to get across. Asking for stories of people being reformed doesn't seem to warrant hazing details.

Not only did you haze, you wasted beer. Epic fail.

Knight Shadow: I gave some specifics such that people could understand the level of severity involved. You are right that the details are not absolutely needed to answer the question, but I wanted to make sure people knew I was interested in all examples of reform, not just ones after extreme cases of hazing that lead to serious injury etc. Sorry if it came off as bragging. That was not my reason and I have absolutely no desire to do that. I am ashamed of the practices my fraternity were caught doing. Thank you for your reply.

Senusret_I: I am mainly interested in hearing about examples of reform because they are very difficult to find online. Newspapers love to write about the actions that a fraternity did to get into trouble and the punishment they received, but an article about a fraternity doing well four years after sanctions is not going to sell papers. Thank you for your reply.

I think that the pouring of beer (or other liquid or food items) onto people is ridiculous. I can't imagine that something like that has any symbolic significance in a formal initiation ritual. I can see something akin to a "baptism" of some sort, but throwing food or beverages on people (and worse) is just degrading. It falls into the "break them down, build them up" mindset.

As for the hoods - that gets a little sketchy. I imagine the purpose is something like sensory deprivation (to heighten the mood and solemnity of the occasion), to prevent initiates from viewing items or their surroundings before they are "revealed" or used, or to shield them from being recognized.

The problem is that sensory deprivation or covering of the face/head can lead to a person getting hurt, embarrassed, scared, etc. So the act may be deemed hazing. If the hoods are part of a formal initiation rite in your organization, something that is unlikely to change, then there is no "reforming".

If I am off the mark, I apologize. That's just what comes to mind.

I don't think that using evidence other groups' ability and success at changing is going to help you.

Were these charges made by your school or your national headquarters? If these are from the school, does your national organization back you? I'll approach this from the standpoint of the school issuing this. Is this the only trouble your group has been in? I have doubts that if the school automatically defaulted to a 10 year suspension you guys didn't have other serious issues in the past.

To answer your question:

'Reforming' the current members is not an option. This will not happen. The culture is already in the members.

In my opinion, the best thing to do is negotiating with the school to leave campus for 4 years, until all current members graduate, and then request to have your national headquarters come in and do recruitment. Also bump up community service and campus involvement.

But in all honesty, the attitude I get from your post is that the things that happened are not a serious hazing issue and the school is overreacting. If this is how you come across to the school, good luck having a future at the campus. If the school doesn't feel like there is cooperation, they will make sure you don't return (One fraternity that was suspended from my campus would have to, literally, kill the Greek Life Advisor and Judicial Affairs Head to get back onto campus now because of how the group is acting post-suspension)

I don't know if this was made clear in this thread, but this chapter is a local fraternity, so there are no nationals to come in and help with recruitment. Just the local/recent alumni.

The current ruling (4 year suspension) also comes with the caveat that the IFC and the Greek Life office will be required to work with the chapter to overhaul its New Member Education program and its Initiation Rituals.

Is the school public or private?

Private

You're kind of at the university's mercy then. One thing to consider would be offering to affiliate with a National. National organizations are attractive to universities because they have internal controls, supervise their groups and have pretty decent liability coverage.

That might not be an option. Some schools purposely keep locals out so they have all the power over the groups and can discipline them whenever/however they want. Grove City is your basic example, along with many religious affiliated schools.

This is so sad. The only ones at fault are you and your fraternity brothers. Not for the hazing, that is a tradition that will continue no matter how hard the universities and schools push for non-hazing laws, but for getting caught and allowing it to be discovered by the school. No offense, but if the worse is they got beer on them and had to wear hoods, and one of them ratted ya'll out, you may have mistakenly given bids to a bunch of sorority girls. Like the others have stated, you are at the mercy of the school. But seriously, this is just pathetic. Any pledge who ever said anything about hazing would be balled, blacklisted, and a social outcast at the school.

How would getting beer poured on you better you as a brother? As a person?

If you applied for a job and they said they'd hire you if they could pour beer in your face, would that be acceptable?

It may be "tradition," but schools and GLOs are outlawing this behavior because it serves no purpose.

And poses major liability risks.

Ah yes. Pouring beer on people. A timeless and honored tradition, which by all means should be protected.

The way this is described, it might be that the group was trying to replicate waterboarding with beer. If so, if all that's happening is their group is being disbanded, then they're damn lucky.

Protected? Did I say anything about that? Nowhere in my post did I say hazing should be protected. I know for a fact, that hazing will continue for more than a while. Ah yes. Watching the new pledges that have no respect for GKE just walk right in and be able to accept their bids and become members of the fraternity I spent hours learning history, sweating, and going through pledging for. Ah what a thought. I sure wish I had it as easy as I am sure the brothers at your fraternity chapter do. So much for the term "pledging".

No one said that you have to accept every person that shows interest. If you don't think these people will be good brothers, don't give them bids.

And let's try not to bash others on this forum when you've only been here for a day, k?

ETA: GKE?

Oh, I'm sorry. I won't try and defend my opinion. And how can you judge someone from the 1 to 2 weeks formal recruitment is. I would love to see the kind of loyalty a brother has to me that knows no history of my fraternity, and no respect for me. Maybe its because I'm from the deep south and we view and do our fraternities different from ya'lls. I was more than willing to go through pledging the way the alumni brothers of mine and active brothers did before me. I expect that from the new rushees and pledges that continue to flock to the greek system here in the deep south. Tradition, its in our lifeblood.

^^ UM 2 of the people who say that hazing is idiotic are from the South IIRC. And you can have a good pledging program without hazing. All hazing does is make a good pledge, not a good Brother.

Y'alls? I guess Texas is northern?

You think you can gauge loyalty of a person by how well he pledges? These people are kissing ass to impress you. We look at people who are already involved before they're interested in us. Also, "true" brotherhood comes from casual interactions with brothers, NOT from the race to be a superpledge.

Common sense. It's in our lifeblood.

ETA:

You type faster than I do.

ETAA: Am I the only one who doesn't know who/what GKE is? I've been pronouncing it like TKE and DKE pronounce their nicknames, and that's making this thread even better :)

I always judge how loyal people are by pouring beer on them. It's the only logical way.

Maybe for you guys giving out a bid and putting up with bullshit gets you initiated, but that doesn't fly with my fraternity. If a pledge isn't learning the history, doing what's expected of him (attending events, etc...), or just pissing people off, we just vote him out of pledging.

My chapter has a very strong brotherhood, and it's not because we poured beer or threw crap on pledges. Additionally, hazing our pledges isn't worth potentially losing our charter.

Looking at my keyboard, I'm suspecting it is a typo.

And there we have it.

I would have noticed if I typed my fraternity's name incorrectly. Looks like his traditions did him a world of good.

Though the only way I can see a typo is if he meant TKE, and that doesn't mesh with the name. Maybe GKE is a local?

DKE has blue and gold as colors, however.

Unless he's punching his keyboard, I don't see how he could have typed a G instead of a D lol

The keyboard malfunctions due to all the beer pouring, obviously.

You know, there are appropriate choices and options between the two poles of hazing and walking right in, accepting bids and being initiated.

Oh great. Yet another Southerner who embarrasses the rest of us Southerners with the "it's a Southern thing, you wouldn't get it" fig leaf.

Hmm.

ATO's colors are sky blue and gold. I don't know what the "GKE" reference is.

DU is also Sky Blue and Old Gold.

But the point here is that you can't get respect if you don't pour beer on people! Come on!

My public profile says ATO. GKE is greater knowledge and experience. Not a typo. I thought GKE was a common term in the greek community, however, I am clearly wrong.

Even better.

What does pouring beer on someone have to do with being greater, with knowledge, or with experience?

Are you on a particularly strong form of crack?

Narcissistic crack.

I think pouring beer on people goes well with GTL and fist pumping.