General Conversation advise for 2011 PNM
 

Hello Everyone. I have a D17 who is anticipating going through rush at which ever school she ends up. She has applied to schools with strong and mostly competitive programs. Being in a Sorority is very important to her (I am Greek and so are her cousins) and I know rush is very, very different today than it was when I rushed 28 years ago at UGA. The one school she is leaning toward (our State U) seems to have a pretty cut throat process (information straight from GC) and she is prepared for that reality. She has excellent grades, great ECs and lots of community service. Recommendations should not be too difficult to come by because her High School has an organizaiton of women (moms) who will gather all PNMs in the spring and have rush survival parties and will do what they can to get letters for girls that are looking for them. Of course we have alum in our fold also, although at preferred State U, my sorority is not represented.

The one thing that make my D very nervous is the art of conversation. She is an amazing conversationalist as long as she knows you or does not feel pressure to be "on show". She does get nervous in environments such as rush type events. (not that she has experienced anything like rush...but strangers getting to know you kind of stuff) Does anyone have any advise for what she can do make it easier and not so stressful in this respect? It's not as if she needs "finishing" school, but Rush 101 would be nice...lol.

She has read here and has absorbed many of the tips of what not to talk about etc, and I feel the advise has been very valuable. Thank you to each of you that provide that infomation.

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...ad.php?t=54403

Why can't she ask us the questions herself?

Because she asked me if I would ask today and I said yes. And thank you for the link. She has actually read that entire thread.

Fwap fwap fwap.

If she can't handle going to a forum to ask questions, she really needs to work on her communication skills. For realz.

ETA: doing class projects, participating in clubs and in officer positions, and interacting with new people should be great practice. SHE needs to take the initiative and learn those skills.

Really? I simply asked a question on behalf of my daughter. I apologize if by doing so I broke some unwritten code that only a PNM could ask a question. When you are an over achieving HS student who spends 12+ hours every day at school between your academics (she is #1 in an extremely competitive HS), and your ECs, and then come home and pound homework and spends what little time that is left writing admissions essays, hanging out on GC during the week is simply not going to happen. I guess I misjudged what this forum was about. I have tried to be honest and straight forward and all that has occurred is an attack over why I am asking a question. It has no relevance and is in direct contradiction to what sisterhood should mean in the first place.

BTW...she holds a few key leadership positions in her High School. She is just nervous about getting this all right. And with the reception that has been given on this thread I feel she has a right to worry if this is the state of the greek system today.

My daughter sounds similar to yours. She just finished recruitment and said she was a little uncomfortable at the first round of parties. My advice would be to search this site and find some sample questions she will be asked during recruitment. Have neighbors/relatives practice these with her. That way she will have answers prepared. I also told my daughter "don't give one word answers, try to tell a story". For example "Where are you from?" Instead of just saying Sometown USA, say we moved around a lot, etc or I have always lived in Sometown but enjoy traveling to.... If your daughter is comfortable with the conversation, she will have a more enjoyable time. Good luck to her.

This is similar to the advice that my mother gave me, the most important part being "don't give one word answers".

To the OP, take a minute to cool off. It's understandable for people to question why she isn't here asking herself, you've explained, and now it's all good.

What is that? It sounds like a jet or something.

Haha, that's what I was thinking. I assumed it meant 17-year-old daughter, though.

WhatstheRUSH, my God Daughter just went through recruitment out of state at a competitive school and had a very happy result with a full schedule each round. She is a serious girl--not shy, but would definitely be more to the reserved side than the extroverted side. By nature, she was not really in her comfort zone in the early rounds when parties are short and first impressions are all you have to go on. However, she had a great time, and I think preparing her for what she might encounter (enthusiastic chanting/singing at the door, high energy, loud first rounds and being bumped to other actives, being cut by houses she liked, etc) helped a lot.

Practicing answers to those "What's your major?", "How do you like school so far?" What dorm are you in?" and learning how to turn those rather simple questions into real conversations is something that can be practiced and learned. We encouraged her to think about what questions she might ask of the actives and what she wanted to learn about sorority life and to formulate those ideas into open ended questions.

Having recs from people who really know the PNM may enable the chapter to make a good match between active and PNM, so good recs are important for a variety of reasons. She found, for instance, that in the early rounds, one house matched her with a member from her hometown. Another put her with a girl who had participated in her same (kind of unusual) sport in HS. Another took the same AP classes, another had a different connection, and so on. Although this didn't happen in each house, it happened often enough to make her realize that the sororities were as interested in getting to know her and put her at ease as she was in getting to know them. Even if that early connection didn't happen, we prepared her for the fact that deeper conversations were coming down the road, and more connections would happen later in the week as the mutual selection process kicked in and the parties got longer.

I hope this helps. There is a lot of helpful information on GC--so have her browse around.

Please don't use College Confidential lingo here. This isn't that.

That being said...you said she's doing community service. I would hope it's something where she can interact with all different types of people, of all ages, like volunteering at a library or a hospital. This will help a lot. I'm not advising her to do either of those things if she has zero interest, but she needs to do things that are out of her "comfort zone." (To wit: some of the girls from my hometown now put down cheerleading as "community service" for cotillion requirements. I think not.)

She really should have come and asked this herself, she does not need to "hang out" on the forum to ask a simple question. Post tonight, check back tomorrow and see if you got any answers. Easy peasy. Takes 5 minutes. Do you not trust her to get on and off the computer in 5 minutes? Because that's kind of the impression you give.

Sigh @ the bolded. There is no attack here.

Her list of credentials are all the more reason for her to seek out and take advantage of opportunities to open up and communicate with people. She sounds great on paper, but if she clams up when in the company of strangers, she really needs to round out her skill set with an ability to communicate with others outside her comfort range.

Parents helping their kids is fine. Parents doing the work for them is not. Persisting in holding her hand will only keep her in the protective bubble she lives in.

Good luck to her. I hope that she can take some initiative and interact here to discuss her possible future recruitment.

Advice the word is advice. When you want me to tell you how to act in a situation you want my advice.

LOL...Thank you. I was thinking the same thing. Also, please don't use the excuse that she is too busy to come on here and ask a question because she doesn't have the time to 'hang out' on a chat board. By saying that, you are insinuating that we all must have very little going on in our lives, which is why we are on here. As someone who works full-time and attends college full-time, I take offense to that. Let her do the work herself.

WhatstheRUSH,

The advice you have received seems harsh, but it really is right on target I think.

Based on the information you provide, your daughter looks great "on paper". That means something, but it is not everything as you surely know being a sorority member yourself and an adult with a family. You have succeeded in many ways to get to this point in your life, and it was not always on paper or in a book I bet!

And keep in mind too that many heli-parents come to this website- plus there have been occasions where an overinvolved parent actually hurt a child's chances in rush. Appearances are everything, and it is human nature for people to question a situation where a parent asks questions a child should be asking themselves. It is not personal, just people going with their general past experience on threads like these- just like rush really. It is people having to give advice or make quick decisions on a small piece of information relative to the whole story no matter how accurate that bit of information or insight comes across.

I just have one piece of advice, and I hope it helps. At a point when your daughter is interested in hearing, may I suggest you and other close relatives who are sorority members take her out for the day. Maybe a nice lunch, shopping, a spa- all that stuff ladies like to do (I am a guy- sorry if I am making stereotypical guesses.) Do what is fun, but make the theme of the day letting her know about sorority life as her close family knows and loves it.

During your outing, answer her questions in terms of what you know. Tell her stories about the good times of sorority membership, maybe about mistakes you thought you made during rush that turned out not to affect your finding a great chapter. Let her see for herself, through your stories, what a great time you had and why. Times may change, but not that much. What you went through a generation ago is very relevant today in many ways.

Take it out of the realm of how daunting rush can be, and just have a relaxed fun time sharing what being Greek meant to you and let her digest it in her own way.

That, I think, is what it will take for her to make a decision if this is for her- ie what will get her over the social fear- and for her to decide to make a serious effort at going for it.

I am old enough to have met a lot of very outgoing and also very introverted people. Everyone has one thing in common- when they are genuinely excited about something, they become wonderful people to be around for those who share a common interest.

In terms of sorority life- that common interest could be social, philanthropy, scholastics, leadership, and the list goes on. I think the greatest gift you can give your daughter right now is the inspiration of how sorority life can connect with one of her personal interests. And from there she will have something real to talk about during rush.

Best wishes and hope this helps!

Really? You think your daughter is special in this regard? I'm only a few years older than she is. Even a few years ago, when something was really truly important to me, I was the one to research it. Not my mommy. Somehow I managed to get into a sorority without her doing my footwork. Shocking, I know.

If you're so unhappy about the replies you've received here, why don't you go back to cc and fwap around with the rest of your kind. We're grownups here. We even spell out big words like d-a-u-g-h-t-e-r.

The reason it's a problem that you came on to ask the question is it speaks right TO your question. Your daughter isn't comfortable in new situations and she has you handle things that makes her feel awkward. This would have been an EXCELLENT lesson in communication for her. And in fact, it's not too late. Since the user names are anonymous, SHE could sign up and ask the questions herself and none of us would know the difference.

But in the meantime, I'd be making her do a lot more stuff independently. When your family goes out to dinner, make HER make the reservations. This is a retardedly simple one, but I was astounded to meet college women who couldn't even order a pizza delivery. Make HER do all the arranging for her rush prep. She feels awkward calling your friends to ask for a rec? TOUGH. That's a perfect life lesson for this situation. Sending out inquiring emails is the easiest, then phones, then face to face. If she needs to start from square one, I'd be getting on that right now because she has a lot of ground to cover in 1 year.

And please, if you've read through many threads here, you have read a lot of psycho-Mom rants. Long time posters here may just have leapt to a conclusion. If you have your daughter's best interests at heart, start focusing on her independence now. It will pay off in a year when she's happily wearing her new sorority letters.

Good luck!

For all of you that were kind and willing to share positive advice, I greatly appreciate it. For those who feel I am being a heli-parent (which I guess is a lingo term for helicopter parent), that I am certainly not. Our family dynamic is much different than most, and my daughter's life is certainly not average, normal or even "easy" as some have made it out to be. My daughter is a kid who's mom has cancer. A sucky life I suspect although she would never let me know that. After her 12+ hours at school, she gets the pleasure of coming home to a Dad and her two younger siblings and doing what ever her Dad needs her to do. Typically giving her 7 year old sisters a bath, doing what little homework they may have (just 2nd graders) and talking to them about their day. We end the day with a conference call with a Mom that simply can't be their physically, yet craves so much to be a part of every single part of their lives. At that point she goes and does what normal kids her age do and completes her homework. She gets up early in the morning, goes to the gym, comes back to the house, her Dad leaves for work, she takes over with her sister's care, drives them to school and then goes to school herself. So I apologize if looking for a little bit of advice for my daughter was a crime on this board. It is really all I get to do all day. Read about this, read about that, try to find something to talk to my daughter about that does not involve cancer, chemo cocktails and missing hair. I have lived on the 7th floor of this hospital for over 4 months and I see no light at the end of this tunnel. I see my children twice a week at best (I am almost an three hours away) and my husband three times a week only because he comes to this city for business. He of course is under tremendous pressure to keep a job that holds the insurance that keeps me here. And when he is not doing that, he is doing my job. And all I do is sit and stew like the cancer filled person I am.

So really, I am just a mom, who wants to be normal with my daughter. My daughter who understands that research and paying bills and ordering stuff online is all I get to do anymore (okay I do get to visit radiology ever other day or so...so I do "get out"). So again, I certainly apologize for stepping on toes here. I have encouraged my daughter to post here, and maybe she will do just that. But of course for me, it will be my last post as I see I have no place here. So for all of you who judge, criticize and play a bit snarky, just remember this could be you some day and my prayer for you is that when you seek out kindness that you actually receive it. When you pass the lady in the grocery store who you tisk tisk for looking a hot mess, remember, she might have been told she had cancer yesterday, she may have lost a child, she may have lost a husband, etc. Not everyone has a picture perfect life. But for the ones that do, please cherish them because they are rare and every life is beautiful.

I'm truly sorry for what you are going through, but it has nothing to do with what was discussed on this board. I'm sure it is a horrible experience for all involved, but throwing it back at everyone here in an attempt to make people feel bad isn't appropriate and seems petty. Let me be clear, what you are going through by no means is petty, but using it to try to shame others is.

You have openly said that your daughter has some communication issues. By posting here for her and doing research she should be doing, you are only enabling those issues instead of encouraging her to communicate herself.

I'm restraining myself, lest I get too emotional and let loose all over the place.

OP, your daughter should be doing research herself, and yes, that involves asking YOU questions about greek life. Times may have changed since you were in school but stories about the "good old" days can be super valuable especially when taken with a grain of salt.

Also, there are many many members of the board who have been through similar situations as you and your daughter. So when YOU post on a message board assuming that everything's just hunky dorey in our lives, remember, someone here might have lost her mother/father/brother to cancer or another illness or suddenly or whatever recently.

WTF? Is Lifetime doing a movie about GC? I want Tiffani Thiessan to play me.

This is not about throwing it back and shame. Why would you ever think that? That is not who I am. I simply was addressing the critics out there who think that I am trying to micro manage my child's life. Dear God, if only I could. I hold no anger or irritation toward anyone. I know life is way too short for that. Just trying to make people realize that life is not black and white and maybe kindness should not be so hard to come by. Like I said, I made a mistake by coming here. I have apologized, yet the digs continue. I simply do not understand that kind of behavior. Again..thanks to all who have been helpful and kind. It is appreciated.

I thought you weren't going to post anymore?

The point is that your daughter should be using you as a resource in her own research, rather than using you to do her research. I understand that it's hard to talk about things that aren't related to cancer/terminal illness when you're right in the thick of things, and reading GC and talking about it is fine - she should just be asking questions on her own, which will help her communication skills. To be honest, I think parents SHOULD read GC or similar sites (it's the posting on them I'm kinda iffy on) so at least they know as well as their kid what's going to be happening - recruitment is a heady time for everyone.

I also understand why you're preparing so far in advance.

My other point is that OUR lives are not black and white, either. And yes, I do see it as a "throwing it in our faces" type of deal - an "I'm going to make them so sorry they reacted this way" because that's how your post READS. I simply do not understand THAT kind of behavior.

Again, LOTS of us have been through similar types of situations. Some of us in high school, some of us in college, some of us as young adults, some of us as grown-ups, and all ends of the spectrum. I for one find it offensive that your assumption would be that none of us have dealt with that (and I'm pulling that from your comment about the lady in the grocery store).

I'm not trivializing your illness, or your daughter's situation, or anything. Dealing with this type of stuff is tough (at any age). Please, feel free to continue to read the forums, but let your daughter do the question asking for herself so that she can hone those communications skills. I assure you, GC still exists on the weekends, and one does not need to wait by the computer with baited breath for answers to their questions.

If you're truly grasping at straws as to what to do with your time (for what it's worth, my mom flew through 7 or 8 crossword and other puzzle books while she was in her appointments - that stuff is boring as hell), try researching something that you're interested in. Just because you're ill doesn't mean you don't have your own interests.

I feel that agzg said it best. In the same breath you talk about not judging others and their situations without knowing, you do the same thing. You insinuated that your daughter is very busy and many of us (who just happen to post on GC meaning we must not have lives) have nothing going on in our lives. I do feel as though you attempted to use your illness as a means of gaining sympathy for your error in judgment and I have a hard time accepting that behavior.

As I said before, many of us have different life experiences. I've met people who look great on paper but, as soon as you meet them, you question how they made it through high school (let alone get into college). I wish your daughter the best of luck but, let her do this herself. She will learn from this experience. Right now, you are just enabling her to be dependent.

Why does it seem like any time anyone is given advice they don't like here, they throw back some take of great tragedy? It seems that Greekchat ought to come with a warning since it must be hazardous to the health of you and your family.

The OP thinks these are digs but you all are actually being a lot nicer and explanatory than you should be. :)

Personal opinion: There's still no need to be rude.

As I was proofing my post I was thinking "wow, this is totally als463 would post." I edited a lot of it out, but I still think it.

Totally not my posting style.

http://www.mediabistro.com/agencyspy...WELL_loRES.jpg