Bid Day Activiites? Drag show and groping?
 

Ok, I have to ask since no one else mentioned this from another thread.

Is going to a drag show and having your new members groped on stage a popular bid day activity? :eek:

I have to admit to being a bit stunned and speechless when I read it. I thought bid day activities would be more about warm fuzzy sisterhood things and laughing a lot to burn of some of the stress from the previous week.

Was anyone else a bit surprised by this or am I just in need of another rocker and some lemonade on the front porch? :confused:

I thought it was incredibly strange as well. I guess maybe different campuses celebrate in VERY different ways? I know that there would be no way in hell that our advisors, let alone Greek Life, would have approved something like that as a post-bid day activity at my alma mater.

OK, I did read that and thought surely I had misread/misinterpreted it. I wonder what the second choice was when the young women made the decision that that would be a "fun" bid day activity. Must have really made bid day memorable in more than the usual way. And yes, I would love to pull up my rocker next to yours on that porch.

Not gonna lie, I think drag shows are fun. Maybe not the best idea, but it could have been worse. I'm sure it depends on the personality of the group. The groping on stage goes too far though.

I'd be all for it on my own time, but that seems a little too wild for a Bid Day celebration. I can see a chapter losing new members who were blindsided by groping on bid night.

Meh. Like IrishLake said, maybe not the *best* idea but maybe it works for them; it just doesn't seem like my place to be bothered by this. If I were a member of the chapter you're talking about, I'd probably be worried that it would turn off new members or make some people uncomfortable, but apparently they didn't think that was a problem. The author of the thread to which you're referring seemed to have a blast and I wouldn't assume she didn't "laugh a lot" and "burn off some of the stress from the previous week." The groping seems too far but other than that, I can't really bring myself to get worked up over this.

I was thinking the same thing you were, OP. I'm thinking that this was an "off the books" bid day activity...I will admit that my chapter had some of these, but we were smart enough not to publicize what we did. Also, if we had a non-traditional activity planned it was always optional for our sisters and new members

Ok, I'm glad to know I wasn't the only one who read it more than once, thinking I must have been reading it wrong. :)

What college women want to do for fun is up to them. But to have this as the introductory event for the new members? Blindsided is a good word. I seriously hope it didn't make any of the new members regret their choice.

It just seems way over the top in terms of pushing the limits for appropriate. As an optional night out activity for whoever wants to go... Ok, they are adults and can make their own choices. But a chapter sanctioned event? Wow.

Picking up my cane and returning to my rocker and lemonade... :)

Where's the link?

Might not have been chapter sanctioned exactly. Maybe (hopefully IMO) it was something a few sisters decided to do on their own.

Thread, See comment 120

I kind of got the vibe from her whole thread that the if you weren't comfy with something like this, you weren't comfy with this chapter as a whole and probably wouldn't have pledged them to begin with. Not only that, I doubt very much that women were forced to go on stage if they didn't want to. Like ThetaDancer, I can't get too worked up about this one. Different strokes for different folks.

Honestly, better something like this than what bid nights used to be - a mixer where the first thing you had to worry about was attracting this or that fraternity man, or not pissing off a sister because you talked to the guy she liked, etc etc etc. Those were the MO for a long, long time, and I'm betting more NMs were lost/made uncomfy over those than would be over a drag show.

Tottering in to join this discussion, pushing my walker in front of me.

I ask the actives "what would your founders think?" when they are bringing up ideas or proposing activities (thank you MariAnn Calais, TPA, for this question).

And Bid Day activities are designed for what purpose? Just wondering out loud.

Asking what our founders would think is probably one of the worst possible questions, IMO.

What would the new member's mothers think is, I believe, a fair question. I'd be horrified if my daughter were groped during bid day. As an advisor, I'd be asking myself what would my risk management team think. It sounds like the op's experience was fun - but I could see it taking a dark turn in a heartbeat.

As a modern day FL girl from a major city, I don't forsee most girls in the region having a problem with it. And if they did, they'd probably have refused to go inside or on the stage (depending on their level of comfort). A drag show is not a surprise for most people who have owned a tv or watched a movie in the past 10 years. I know plenty of guys who refuse to go because they don't want that to happen, so I can't imagine a girl going along with it if she didn't want to. I don't want to be the "girl who cried old" or mean but there are many things I see people of a certain age nitpick at on this site that I find to be very out-dated in thought. But to each his own.

The way I interpret the founders question is to mean "is this something that would reflect positively on the organization?" That's my take on it. It's always interesting to hear/read others' viewpoints and thoughts; that's something I enjoy about these conversations. "Keep an open mind" - this is a good reminder to me. So I'll think about what everyone else says/posts.

And from a risk standpoint, there are always going to be concerns. Seeking a balance is what's tricky. Also consider the peer pressure factor; I don't know that many 18 year olds who are confident enough to walk away from awkward or uncomfortable situations. They still want very much to fit in and aren't totally comfortable in their own skins. That's what I've observed.

There isn't a one-size-fits-all answer here, I guess.

My daughter at the same university went with her new pledge class and all of the sisters to a very nice restaurant for their Bid Day celebration. Lots of sisterly bonding!

Of course it's not appropriate.

Drag show - fine, appropriate, silly, fun, whatever
Being groped - not so much

It would depend on what the objections were I think. I could see people objecting to the drag show purely on the grounds that it's a drag show.

I think you guys are REALLY blowing the "groped" mention out of proportion. Like, to the point that you're being ridiculous. Do any of you have any clue what these shows are really like?

It would be nice if we could just be happy for the PNMs who have found new homes they love instead of picking apart their posts.

I honestly couldn't have had a better time!
 

I want to add the perspective of a new member of this chapter.

The place we went is a restaurant downtown that has drag/cabaret shows. All around it is an exciting and fun atmosphere. I don't think I saw one girl who wasn't having the time of her life (possibly because my Alpha and I raced everyone for the front and center table). We had dinner and then the cabaret started. The entire night was filled with singing, dancing, and laughing. The food was good and I'm almost positive everyone had a good time.
The "groping" was limited to maybe a handfull of girls up front (and if your not interested in taking part, you generally don't sit up front for any type of show whether it be drag, magic, or comedy) and it wasn't any worse than what happens on a regular basis at bars surrounding the college.

The OP of the thread that started this one and I had a blast from what I could tell and what I saw of the rest, well they were standing in chairs to get a better look.

Love from a baby Phi

Amen.

^^^ This, to me, is what brotherhood or sisterhood is about. Having a good old fashioned bawdy day out and memories lasting a lifetime.

Yes. I have a clue. I've even attended a "bachelorette party" at a similiar establishment.

And I still don't see that being groped = fun. The risk management thread is full of activities that were "fun" until they were not. And I'm not buying into the "oh, they wouldn't have done it if they weren't having fun." It would be very difficult to be the one member to object, especially if you were a new member, hoping to fit in. Yes, I'm happy for the PNM, but that doesn't mean I can't object to behavior that does not, imho, seem appropriate for an official sorority event.

Thank you.

Re: a girl not going in if she isn't comfortable... Why put a brand new member in this kind of situation to begin with? After everything the PNMs have gone through during the week to join a sorority and be accepted, how many of them would want to risk being the "weird one" who doesn't want to do something that they might truly find offensive?

I'm very culturally aware and I'm also aware that south Florida is its own little unique world. But I still think this is a mistake and that's why I started a new thread about it rather than hijacking the recruitment story thread. While some of us may be "older" and appear out of touch with what we ask, we've also gained some wisdom along the way and like to help people think through potential mistakes ahead of time. :)

I realize at all of (gasp!) 43 I must sound really out of touch, but I couldn't let this comment pass without saying something. I wanted to know if this was a common sorority event these days. I know plenty of lovely young women who would make great sorority members who would also be stunned if this was their bid day activity. I would be mortified if I sold them on all the benefits of sorority membership and found out this was their introduction to sorority life.

AMEN!

Frankly, what I find a lot more uncomfortable than the concept of a drag show is that this thread is so passive-aggressively aimed at a particular person/chapter. A particular poster is quoted in the title, but then the OP wants us to answer some "general" question about whether this is a "popular" activity.

The thread that is being referenced was such a positive one for several reasons and I'd really rather be happy that the pnm found a great new home and had a good experience. There are so many better take-away points from that thread, IMO, and I hate that we're picking it apart like this.

I don't get the need for a passive aggressive separate thread. Why not just object to the activity in the actual thread, instead of creating a separate "calling them out for being inappropriate" thread?

For what it's worth - if the new members and actives all had a good time, and were fine with it, I don't see a problem. It's probably not what I would have chosen as New Member Coordinator (I always picked bowling) - but part of the fun of being young and in a greek organization are these crazy nights out where you just have fun (and drag shows are quite fun - I went to several while I was in college).

Since we're not sure whether they checked with the new members if they were cool with it before leaving campus, we can't exactly speak to "what's appropriate" or not.

Also, the night I recieved my bid, we went off campus to a keggar (hosted by sisters, in their apartment, chapter sponsored, no choice whether or not to go). Pick your poison.

I've got to agree with ThetaDancer. I'm far more troubled by the bashing this chapter is getting. I think those who are offended by it probably aren't the type of people who would pledge that chapter to begin with.

Yes, it's unconventional but I'm going to trust that the chapter is filled with unconventional girls. Personally, I think it sounded like a blast, but then my parents took me to a drag show for part of my Sweet 16 so that's where I'm coming from.

I think the issue should be dropped. It really isn't our place to criticize what another chapter of another sorority does for Bid Day.

So as not to derail that thread, which consists of a PNM/NM's story and lots of congratulations, with a discussion on whether what her chapter planned was appropriate?

I don't see starting a seperate thread about it as passive-agressive at all. I see it as trying not to rain on the NM's parade and trying to keep any discussion about the one activity in question seperate from that particular NM's deserved celebration.

The more I think about it, the angrier I get that this thread was even started. It wasn't passive-agressive, it was intentionally condescending and arrogant. I haven't seen any AEPhis here commenting and those are the only people who should be involved. The rest of it is just self-congratulatory posturing.

If a New Member came on here and complained about their Bid Day activity it would be a totally different story but that hasn't happened and until it does, this is none of our business.

This.

I can personally see both sides of this. I probably would have been one of those girls who was uncomfortable with this being my first official intro to the sisterhood, but would have done it anyway (and probably had a good time) so I wouldn't be the weird one. I did a cabert style show in college, so I'm not uncomfortable with the actual activity...but in that case, I signed up for it. But, I guess if this is who your house is, then it works...if the NMs are turned off, then maybe they're in the wrong house, and at least they find that out right off the bat.

Ok, I'm done arguing with myself now...carry on.

Thank you.

I don't think the person who started the thread meant it to be that way - and I partially blame myself for asking for the link - but some of the subsequent comments have been straight up bitchiness.

Exactly my point. I think these girls would have been more horrified by a night of sitting around in their jammies, doing each other's toenails, and watching chick flicks.

I do, personally...and while I'm not up for being groped even at something as harmless as a drag show without liquid courage, I really don't give a damn if someone else participates...but the question of is it appropriate for a Bid Night activity is fair, because it's a curious choice to some people since what would be appropriate obviously varies from campus to campus. (And varies from pledge class to pledge class...I can see my pledge class being totally up for that, but the more recent ones being scared to death, from my own chapter.)

Glad you had fun and congrats on finding your home!

I agree that the OP probably didn't have malicious intent starting this thread. A particular event inspired it, but I don't think the OP was wanting us to pick apart that event (or chapter) as much as start a discussion.

I would think that a good measure is (rather than "WWFD? - What would Founders do? Or even alums/moms/grandmothers) ...would you (barring gender-specific details) do this on a first date? Clearly, the answer is going to vary, and that's ok. That's where chapter and campus dynamics come into play.

Agree, "what would our founders do?" is a horrible standard to go by. Because they wouldn't be doing 90% of the things the average female college student does, from wearing jeans to going to bars.

I like for actives to think about how what they do reflects on the international organization...as long as they remember that they are in college, and some members will make mistakes, and that's ok.

It does appear from the posts made by chapter members that generally speaking this wouldn't be crossing the line.

First, to our new AEPhi, again huge congratulations and much happiness to you and your sisters.

My lens was "risk" oriented. I always welcome and enjoy conversation and spirited debate, especially from those whose viewpoints differ from mine. It's been interesting to read what everyone thinks and realize that there probably is no "right" answer. @AlphaFrog, I like the "first date" approach/question and can see how it applies to this situation. @Alumiyum, I don't know that I agree that it's "horrible" to think about the founders, but I can see where context is critical and in this context, it simply doesn't work. Thanks for helping me see that. I really do appreciate it and it's given me something to think over.