Got a DWI a few days ago should I still rush?
 

Well the day after I moved in I made the stupidest decision of my life and went to move my car to a different lot and got pulled over and blew a .1 on the breathalyzer and went to jail for the night. Anyhwho im probably looking at a few classes, some community service, and a drivers license suspension. I go to Arkansas and rush week starts the 9th I believe and I was wondering your opinions on if I should still rush or just wait till next semester?

thanks

DWI/Rush
 

I practice criminal law in Texas,I've had this talk man with men going through rush who've picked up a DWI or a dope case. Take care of the DWI and make your grades first! If you have a drinking problem or your idea of fraternity life is to see if you can float the keg stay away. If you want to make friends and have a home base in college go for it. You and your parents know what is right for you. Do the right thing for the right reason

Best regards,


Glenn Adams

You do not want to be a Spring.

If your parents are fine with it and the money is still there, do it. You may have to be a dd, so just trade with a pledge brother on some other cleaning duties or some such.

/lane swerve/

Do fraternities in general have rules (or mandatory admission to the fraternity) to those who have been convicted of any crime?

/lane swerve/

Idk about that but I havent been convicted yet and I wont be convicted until after rush week so hopefully it wont be a problem. Anywho I spoke with my parents about it today and Im still going to rush but if I feel like its to hard to handle that, the dwi stuff, and school im gonna stop. Thanks for all the help

I am glad that your DWI story was not as bad as I assumed it was. However, along the lines of what g41965 said, I must ask whether you are 21. It's great that others are addressing the fraternity component but if you are drinking underage, that's the only thing that matters. This lower-end DWI is a Godsend if you are drinking underage.

yea im under 21

Good idea
 

Nathan:

I'm glad you talked to your parents, Greek Life is fine but your priority needs to be making community supervision/probation and your grades, let your pledge trainer know you wil not violate IE no drinking, no taking things on a scavenger hunt, also no going to bars. Be the DD your pledge brothers will thank you.Trust me a motion to revoke sucks, don't think supervision won't know? I had a client who got an MIP at Arizona State got a motion to revoke in CollinCounty (suburbs of Dallas) and did three days as a sanction after school was out.

Best,

Glenn Adams

I'd a great suggestion, but he probably won't be able to drive anyone anywhere for a while.

You mean, like regarding having them as pledges or...?

As long as it's something minor (DWI/posession) it usually wouldn't affect our acceptance of someone as a pledge.

But I don't know if there are any rules regarding it?

A DWI is MINOR???????????????????????????????????????????????

I dont mean to downplay what I did I know Im an idiot but it is a misdemeanor. And yea after im convicted I wont be driving anywhere for a while.

In the eyes of the law, yes.

As long as you don't crash, most people don't spend any significant time in jail, if any.

YMMV on whether this is a good thing or not.

I'm thinking about it along the lines of what would happen to me if I got pulled over. Minimum penalties in my state for first offense are up to one year in jail, license suspension for 6 months or more, and a hefty fine.

When I think of minor, I think moving traffic violation.

Well there are probably lots of people who get DUIs or busted for possession of what-have-you when they're younger and get it wiped from their record by the time they rush. The OP's main problem is that it JUST happened. It would be kind of whack to say he isn't allowed to rush/join when others who have done the same thing are.

I agree that what's good for one should be good for all. My comment was just a reaction to a DWI being "minor" not to the OP's conundrum. lol

If you're young and it's your first time you've ever been in trouble, chances are you won't have your license suspended and you'll have community service/probation. But if you're ever cited for underage drinking while under probation, you're going to get the book thrown at you. This means you're really going to have to stay sober during rush and your first months at college. If you get into trouble you're going to get destroyed in court.

I knew someone who had an underage OVI (what they call them in Ohio) and he had to pay a fine and be on probation for a year or two. Judge said if he was caught underage drinking he would face the maximum the judge could impose. Needless to say my friend stayed out of trouble and DD'd a ton.

Most people I know in my state who haven't gotten arrested before have had color-code (call in daily and if your color is called you go get tested), fines, a 90 license suspension and an education course. So here it would be a big deal...and I'm not downplaying it because drinking and driving is, of course, a big deal period, but I know enough people who have gotten one to think that it's not all that uncommon.

To me minor would be an MIP/MIC.

To the OP just make sure you DO NOT DRINK or do anything else illegal while you're on probation. If they go easy on you now, and they probably will, they will NOT if you mess up again. I know you won't be able to DD if you get a bid, but there are other ways to be useful as the sober person at a party. Just let them know you'll do your part and stay out of trouble.

Yes, pledging or being a member. What level of conviction could be grounds for not granting a bid, or even suspending/expelling a member? (If that's private, that's fine).

Let's say such a person was at a party (where there is drinking), and the party gets busted. Do the cops give breathalyzer tests to all the underage people?

I know of someone who did the maximum worst thing they could possibly do legally and not receive prison time(in some states, they would seriously be looking at three years of hard time). They were not kicked out due to their membership. However, as a pledge, the toleration is much lower and they would have been kicked out certainly. (p.s. the person miiiiiight have been me)

Getting a bid, it's almost a matter of whether or not the fraternity hears about it (and to some degree, even while pledging). As far as I can recall, we don't do a criminal background check on these guys.

I've been at two parties where cops checked IDs and then breathalyzed all the underage people. I was of age both times, but a few friends of mine got to spend the night in jail.

I know we never did background checks. Maybe national office does after the info is turned in, but in 8 years as an active/advisor I never heard of anyone having their pledgeship revoked over a misdemeanor offense- DWI included- and I knew of more than one situation where a pledge got a DWI (not my chapter necessarily.)

I see two issues here worth considering nathan55, and in offering the below advice I am not making any assumptions about what your drinking plans are going to be in the near future. There are plenty of guys in fraternities who do not drink for a variety of reasons, and pledging does not- in my experience and opinion- encourage or force drinking. GDIs off at college for the first time are just as prone to getting themselves in trouble, so on that score you will determine your own fate whether you rush or not.

1. Waiting to spring or next fall is going to really hurt your options when it comes to rush. Besides, at big southern schools you really want to pledge in the fall during football season. Spring pledging is just not the same. On this score, if your parents are okay with it- yes, rush.

2. The legal considerations. Much good advice so far. One more thing for you to check out- and might be worth talking to your attorney about this. It varies by state and probably by the nature of the offense- but I am aware of situations where probation terms include language where the person on probation agrees to not associate with other individuals breaking the law- especially in ways pertinent to the offense for which that individual is serving probation in the first place.

What you need to find out is how much at risk you are if you are sober at a party where other underage people are drinking and that party gets busted with someone checking your ID and running it through the system since they are doing a rundown on everyone there, not just the drunk ones- just to give an example. Low chances of trouble? I would guess so. But if something like that could happen, best you find out now what it could mean for you.

With regard to background checks, I actually do run limited public records background checks of everyone who accepts a bid with my chapter. (I am the chapter advisor) 99% of the time, that's churned up nothing. In one case, a prospective member had an arson conviction, so you never know.

As far as Nathan's situation, your business is your business. If they don't ask, don't tell. If a kid in my chapter had this issue and hadn't made the chapter aware, I wouldn't see it as a huge problem, but I'd probably speak to his marshal (pledge trainer), make sure he addressed it, then expect it not to be a problem.

At the risk one of the men in my chapter read this, a first DUI/DWI conviction in most states is no big deal from a criminal standpoint. It's financially costly, but the penalties typically only include a possibly suspended driver's license; potentially having to have an interlock device installed on your vehicle; definitely going to drug/alcohol assessment and victims' impact panels; paying of various fees to various entities and of course, my personal favorite, attorney's fees. From a Greek organization's standpoint, it varies. I know sororities at my alma mater would expel members simply for being arrested (regardless of whether a conviction occurred). On the other hand, fraternities (in my limited experience) tend to look the other way for things like MIP, public intox and social host arrests.

As far as offering you specific advice with regard to your legal situation, presumably you have a lawyer who you've paid a flat rate retainer fee to and his services should include relevant legal advice tailored to your situation. You shouldn't be bashful about calling him/her up and explaining the situation and asking for specific advice as to how the terms of your suspended sentence/probation/whatever would relate to your pledging a fraternity.

Expelled just for being arrested?:eek: I don't think I've heard of a sorority doing that on my campus...or a lot of people would've been kicked to the curb.

Seems like there was thread a few years ago from a sorority member that happened to. IIR, she was trying to figure out how to appeal/get reinstated.

ETA: Found it, though that story takes some turns.

Meh that's different, her chapter was already in trouble for alcohol violations, unfortunate timing, but that actually makes sense to me.

But damn, I think expelling a member just for being arrested (or even convicted if it's a minor charge, like MIP/MIC etc.) is way too harsh.

Yeah, it was somewhat different (and a bit crazy), but still expulsion just for getting arrested apparently was possible.

I bet it's possible for a lot of organizations, if the standards for expulsion arent' extremely specific but eesh. Glad my campus is a little more laid back, or our Greek community would have lost some good leaders that made one mistake at 18.

Let me qualify by saying that's hearsay, but it is from a credible source.

It varies. At my school, no one ever got brethalyzed at a busted party, people were all told to scram. But I was in a big city that had real crimes happening.

From what I've seen at U of I and OSU, it varies from officer to officer. But if he did get brethalyzed, the officer most likely would give him an underage citation (which when it gets processed, will reveal his status).

If I was in this situation I'd play it very safe.

Aren't you always allowed to refuse to be breathalyzed? This even applies if you're operating a vehicle recklessly and the officer pulls you over while you have a 40 in your hand. (In that situation, the officer can still arrest you, but you'll be given the more accurate blood test at the station.)

However, if you're just at party, I think the testing is simply out of question. Also, unless your state has stop and identify laws, you wouldn't have to identify yourself and show that you're 21 or older either.

You can refuse to be breathalyzed. But, at least in my state, that is admissible as evidence of guilt of DUI (but if you agree to be breathalyzed and you blow within twice the legal range, under .16, the state will drop charges after you complete the program of community service, classes etc. They won't drop charges after completion of the program if you refuse to be breathalyzed). And, you can only refuse one time. The next time you get pulled over, it's a separate misdemeanor to refuse again. It's pretty much always in your best interest to be breathalyzed.

You technically can refuse a breathalyzer or chemical test, but check your state laws for repercussions. Some states have some form of Implied Consent—i.e., if you are agreeing to hold a license and drive on the roads, it is implied that you will consent to some form of BAC test. I'm not an attorney, but from what I understand it can be just as bad as blowing over a .08 in some states.