Religion?
 

Hi I'll be going through rush in a couple weeks and I'm super excited! I just had a question along the lines of religion when it comes to being a member.

I'm just curious how much Christianity plays a role in the sororities? I only ask because many websites say something along the lines of "encouraging Christian ideals" or something to that extent. I've read through my schools NPC website and they state they don't discriminate due to religion, race, etc. I'm actually an atheist so I'm just curious how big a part religion plays when it comes to being a member.

I'm curious so any insight would be really helpful! Thanks!:)

Religion shouldn't be an issue. In my house we have many girls who follow many different religions, and many who don't follow one at all.

During recruitment chapter women are advised to stay away from controversial topics (like religion), so you also shouldn't run into an issue there.

One thing to think about is many sororities were founded in a time period where the religious nature of things was much different than it is today.

Hope this helps a little, maybe someone has a better answer than I can give you.

If they say they don't discriminate, then I would accept that they don't.

Thank you so much! I figured it was fairly diverse but I just wasn't sure since it mentioned it on the website

I obviously wouldn't bring anything up during recruitment or anything like that.

And I'm not too worried about them discriminating, more just wondering if I would feel odd if a lot of it was centered around being Christian

That will probably depend on your campus culture. I believe (have been told and read, but if I'm wrong about the following, please someone more knowledgeable correct me!) that many sororities and fraternities have religious elements ranging from minor to major in their rituals. That's something to keep in mind, but ritual isn't discussed with non members. So you probably won't be able to know before joining whtehr or not the organization does or does not have any religious elements to ritual. You do not have to be of a certain religion to get a bid, and whether or not many members are of one religion or not will probably depend on the general campus culture. Talking to someone who is from your school might help. If you know any current students, ask them what they think.

I will tell you that I went to a southern campus with many NPC women that were very actively (and sometimes loudly) Christian. If I had to give myself a label it would be agnostic, and very rarely did anyone ever even bring it up. I just didn't talk about religion myself, except to occasionally remind people gently that not everyone in the chapter was Christian and we should all be respectful of each others' beliefs. But then, being agnostic and atheist are two different things. I don't think you will have trouble with other members, but whether or not you will be comfortable around others who are religious is something to keep in mind.

If it were me I would just keep an open mind and if I were offered a bid, accept it. You'll be able to get a feel for it as a new member and you'll be able to talk to actives who can address your concerns if it warrants discussion. Then you can go from there depending on the situation.

PS-Is there any way your username is related to Harry Potter?

Some chapters on southern campuses have their own Bible study, but it's more of a special interest group, certainly not a required element.

Alumiyum- yes my username is harry potter related :) haha HP<3

Okay that you all for your help. I wish I knew more girls who I could ask. But I guess I just won't really worry about it unless it becomes an issue. I'm used to having friends who are religious and I was raised Catholic so I doubt I'll feel uncomfortable unless they start actively trying to convert me haha (though that happens to me fairly frequently)

Thanks violetpretty that was what I was curious about. But as long as its not required I'll be fine. I was just wondering if I'd be required to attend Bible study or something like that.

There are some sororities, one at UCLA, that specifically say that they are a Christian house. Does this mean if you are agnostic, for example, that you can't join? No. But you have to be aware of this fact.

Many NPC chapters are historically Christian or Jewish. Please note: historical being the operative word. If there is Bible study or Torah study I hope that this is optional. And I imagine that if ritual included certain references that certain wording could be changed to: God, Allah, and/or Father/Son/Holy Spirit for those so inclined.

I can say that my daughter has not had a problem or a crisis of conscience in her house. We are on the west coast so things here could be different than in other parts of the country.

My chapter was largely Catholic and remains so due to the location. I am Baptist. Many of my sisters are Jewish. In fact, I can safely say we had more Jewish women than chapters who had Jewish founders and non-sectarian ritualswhile I was was there. My sorority was founded at a Methodist school by the daughter of a Methodist minister.

Religion was just never an issue except for some of the Jewish girls while I was there and even then it was not in a negative way at all. People respected each other very well.

Just don't expect for rituals to be changed or modified to accomodate you. If you accept a bid, also accept that you might have to "grin and bare it." Just think of it as positive overall and it's not going to kill you to participate. If it is, then don't do it.

Yes! Love Harry Potter. So much.

That's the right attitude to have...just go with it, and if you get offered a bid and accept keep your mind open and address issues if they come up. You'll be able to tell before initiation if religion will be a big factor in the chapter. You won't have to attend a bible study or anything.

I would never expect them to modify their rituals or anything like that for me. I was just curious to what extent religion was involved, not trying to make waves or anything. :)

Thanks for all your help :) I'll definitely just keep an open mind and not really worry about it because it doesn't sound like it should be an issue. I'm so excited just a few more weeks :)

Good luck with recruitment!

Religion is a big part of many chapters and their sorority's rituals. Like every chapter meeting y'all pray together. Many rituals have heavy religious overtones. You just have to ask yourself if you can pledge your entire self to something that is heavily focused on God if you don't really believe in it. It could really offend some people if you participate in a ritual that you don't believe in. Of course you won't know until you go through it, and by then it's too late!

Go through Recruitment and feel it out. You can talk frankly with your Recruitment Counselor about such things and she will be able to give you a lot of insight about the campus sorority culture. those conversations are pretty confidential so don't be afraid to ask any questions that you may have.

I'm not sure about people being offended because a member doesn't believe in God even if He is in the ritual if the member believes in the sorority's values and what they stand for...sounds a little unfair to me.

Some people think of it like taking communion at a church when you don't believe in God.

K well maybe they need to get the sticks out of their butts.

Implying that someone shouldn't join a sorority that has "Christian" rituals because they "don't believe in them" is ludicrous.

I'm not religious in the least bit but I sure as hell believe in my sorority's ritual.

This^

What I was thinking, but better said.

You go! And thank you. And, at least in our little corner of the world people believe in respect for other people and a little thing called sisterhood that accepts people with religious differences.

/cosign the not giving a crap what people believe religiously as it relates to ritual in anyway. If we wanted to discriminate we could call ourselves a "Sigma*" sorority and only let "Sigma" people in.

*Replace Sigma with whatever belief system best fits your GLO's ritual whether Judeo Christian or Greco-Roman Pagan or Hindu.

But we're not just a "Sigma" sorority, we accept everyone regardless of faith, as long as they don't mind participating in "Sigma" rituals. And I say this as someone whose faith has changed a LOT from college to now.



Also, anyone who compares it to going to communion should get their priorities in line.

With all do respect, you don't know what happens in my ritual so you can't judge where it should be on my list of priorities or how closely it ties in with my religion.

Never in my first post did I say anything about discrimination or if she "should be allowed" to do things. I was talking about if she would feel comfortable. If she feels comfortable and is accepted by a chapter on her campus then that's all that matters. NPC sororities don't discriminate on the basis of religion and I don't want to change that. I just meant that it can be a big deal at some chapters and not a big deal at others.

No, I don't, but my mother is an ADPi and is in agreement with me on the matter. Which suggests it's not about your ritual and more about your opinions on religion

Lady Pi: With all due respect let me make a few observations: One is that sorority rituals(not the essence os sisterhood) and membership may vary greatly in different parts of the country. When I was at the university that my daughter now attends one sorority went to Church for initiation. They no longer do this due, in part, to a very diverse membership. At some point the decision was made to eliminate this practice to enhance sisterhood. Would anyone suggest that a Fleur de Lis (a French cross) be eliminated as the symbol of KKG because there are Jewish members? No. There is historical ritual and symbols and the evolution of many houses.

This may be regional, but prayers are NOT the norm here.

Wait, the Fluer de Lis is a cross? I thought it was just a stylized flower.

*cough* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleur-de-lis *cough*

It's a flower not a cross ;)

Otherwise I agree. Even when religion is at the core of our rituals, belief in the religion itself is not required, it's supporting the ideals that the religious aspects are standing for. Otherwise we'd restrict the membership to people who believed in the religion itself.

Drolefille- Wow. My Mom is an ADPi as well and is in agreement with me. What a surprise that mother's agree with their own daughters. You are still misinterpreting my post.

ellebud- That's exactly what I'm saying, that it varies from place to place and that the PNM would have to go through Recruitment and talk with her Recruitment Counselor and figure out how it is on her campus for herself.

I AM GOING BACK TO ELEMENTARY SCHOOL AND TELL OFF MY FOURTH GRADE TEACHER!!!!!! She told me that my report on Joan of Arc (with my illustration of the the fleur de lis) was a French cross!!!!!! And a badge of Joan's courage and her faith!

I apologize. But Jewish girls didn't have a whole lot experience with crosses. (very red face.)

You said.

Some people think a lot of things.

So you "clarified"
So you brought your ritual into this and tried to make it about more than what "some people think."
However the fact that ADPis differ on the matter suggests that it does not reflect your ritual but what "some people think." That is, your opinion on religion, not your ritual.

You then tried to clarify further that was about her comfort. When you rather clearly stated it was about your comfort. Or similarly minded chapter members' comfort. Your posts had nothing to do with the PNM until you were called out on it.

It's a sweet story that would make sense though! One time my third grade teacher tried to tell me that the superintendent of our school system was a man. Well the superintendent was my Great Aunt Deanna, a woman, a very angry woman, hahah.

LOL. It's been a symbol of French nobility, and one used in religion particularly in France for a long time. New Orleans and St. Louis both use it pretty heavily because of that. But not as a cross :p

Nothing to apologize for.

Lady Pi (back to our original subject): It does seem to me that your reading of religion/ritual/membership is meant to exclude those who don't share your religious views.

I really didn't mean for it to come off that way. It's just that at my chapter we are a very religious group. There are many different religions in my chapter and probably some people who don't have a religion or believe in God, they just don't speak up much. But to me, personally, religion is a big part of my sorority. It's just my opinion, other people have different opinions and that's great, it doesn't make anyone right or wrong. That's one of the joys of being in a sorority, being around different people that you can still get along with and respect, no one wants to be in a sorority or world full of clones.

And that's all fine. I get that this was ultimately what you were trying to say, but what you actually said was why multiple people jumped on you.
I mean, think about the people in your chapter who don't believe in God and if they had heard you say something similar. Wouldn't they feel like they were somehow wrong for being a member? (Or that you thought them such?) Just because you don't know who they are, doesn't mean they aren't present and hurt by those assumptions, nor that they don't deserve true respect, not just tolerance-as-long-as-they-don't-speak-up.

And this is true of all of our GLOs that openly accept members of all creeds or none.

Also...just have to say that some very religious people might not be keen on the idea of comparing holy communion with sorority ritual. Two very different animals there. Doesn't offend me, because I'm not one of these people, but I know that if I said that in front of my mother she'd have a cow.

This is funny because this can be directly related to the other side of religious folks not joining because some of the rituals can be seen as heretical.

At the end of the day you have to look at the org you are joining as something beyond the confines of the things that separate us.

Well said.

I find it interesting that you prayed at every chapter meeting. Was this a Christian school?

I do not think that you are correct in your assertion that sororities in general are "heavily focused on God". What is your criteria for this? It's a pretty general statement that should be supported with evidence.

Sorority ritual is nothing like "taking communion". My membership in a sorority is not going to bring me salvation.

I will say my chapter had a "prayer request" prayer at every chapter meeting, and it is at a public school. However I don't remember it ever deviating from something like, "God, please remember all of these sisters and their prayers"...but it never really bothered me to sit quietly and listen, and no one ever said anything to me about the fact that I didn't bow my head, fold my hands, and close my eyes. I wasn't the only sister that did not directly participate. But I don't remember it being an issue for those that were not religious or those that were as long as everyone was respectful, and for the most part we all were (of religion anyway:p).

Re: Praying at chapter meetings. It's entirely possible that it's part of ritual too. I don't know how that works if there are non-ritual chapter meetings (informal vs formal chapter for example.)