"Go in with an open mind."
 

I understand that all PNMs are supposed to go through rush and let their hearts tell them where they belong because they fall in love with the girls and they want to be a part of their family and they feel at home and all of those wonderful things.
But how is it wrong to want to know what kind of reputation certain letters hold? I, for one, would be annoyed if I went through rush and joined a sorority that I was only so-so about (as many people will tell you to do at a big SEC school like mine) and then found out that they had been involved in a scandal a few years ago so everyone on campus now associates ABC with a lack of class. Well, awesome.
I'm just wondering why it's so bad to want to know reputations and stereotypes before getting into rush. Where is the line between being aware and closing your mind?
(This is a legitimate question and not meant to start an argument in any way.)

It depends. Sometimes stereotypes can be very very wrong. But sometimes there is some truth to them.

When I went through recruitment as a sophomore, I had seen the other sororities interact on campus with each other and with themselves. I knew I would not fit in with the other one but I gave them the benefit of the doubt during recruitment. Maybe they had a big pow wow before recruitment and were dedicated to change.

I can understand your thought process though. But 99.9% of the time "tent talk" and stereotypes are wrong.

While I understand where you are coming from, I am personally of the opinion that one should make their own impressions on the chapters and not get caught up reputations/tiers etc...

Because of those beliefs I don't talk about tiers on GC.

Isn't it possible to be aware of the tiers and reputations and not get caught up in them? Like, if I fall in love with the "ugly, fat girl" sorority, I'm still going to join it, but I'd like to know that other people have that stereotype so that I can actively work against it. Or, if I fall in love with the top tier, big name sorority, it's probably better to know that they are so competitive so that if/when they cut me, it's not devastating, right?
There has to be a way to hear all of the tent talk and take it with multiple grains of salt.

Reputations are based on opinions and rumors. If you went into recruitment and met a group of girls who you absolutely LOOOVED, and you got along 100000% with them, would you turn your back on them if you heard that their reputation was not so stellar?

Reputations CHANGE. So you might get into the "pretty" or "OMG THEY ARE SO EFFING BEAUTIFUL!!!!!!ELEVENTY!!" sorority, and then in a year or so, you might be the "fat" sorority. Don't take stock in reps/stereotypes, they aren't worth your time.

Consider this: it works BOTH ways. Let me explain.

Had I listened to, or bought into, stereotypes/reputations, I would not have ended up where I did. To wit: I thought that there were chapters that were "too good" for me.

I went into "rush" with the attitude that I was going to have a great time, without any expectation of receiving a bid. I truly liked the women in every chapter, and they liked me back, because I kept getting invited to return. It was very difficult to have to "regret" invitations. The field narrowed and I was surprised that the two most popular chapters were actually interested in me. I was even more surprised to discover that I FIT there, comfortably. Preference was a painful decision.

And another thought: it only takes one incredible pledge class to completely turn a chapter around. I've seen it happen. So much for reputations and stereotypes.

Sure, it's fine if you don't plan (or unknowingly) to use your "knowledge" to eliminate chapters before rush even starts. Even if you don't plan to do that knowing that ABC is the "fat, ugly sorority" WILL make you think negatively or be hesitant to not cut them.

Plus, any "scandals" youre talking about or could have taken place don't accurately represent the whole chapter. If a girl from XYZ got trashed and got into a bar fight and was arrested...that doesn't mean that the whole chapter would do that. Heck, theres probably at least one girl in that sorority who doesnt even drink. So wanting to know scandals and that sort of repuation isnt something I, as an active, would go around saying to PNMs because it's not an accurate portrayal. Every sorority is going to have strengths and weaknesses, and every sorority (especially on an SEC campus)is going to have members who make a mistake.

If you're honestly not worried about joining the "ugly, fat girl sorority" and you'll join if you love them...then why does it matter? Why do you need to know the reputations of the houses if you plan on accepting a bid so long as you like the house? (Unless you like a house simply because of it's spectacular top tier reputation)

Adding to what Aztheta said, I think it should also be noted that as actives it's often easy to tell when a PNM is wanting/not wanting a house because of repuations and tent talk.

Example- Sally PNM only wants to be in a top sorority. ABC is a top tier house. XYZ is not. Sally goes to round 1 at XYZ and is completely rude. She then goes to ABC and is so nervous it shows...she also bad mouths XYZ.

Not only is it obvious by her actions that she is only considering certain houses. But Karen from XYZ is best friends with Meg from ABC and told Karen how mean Sally PNM was at their party. Meg tells her ABC sisters and they cut Sally PNM.

OR- Because of the dirty mouth Sally PNM has when she decides to trash talk XYZ, Meg from ABC doesn't like the attitude and gives Sally PNM a low score and she is cut.

Therefore, at the end of the day, Sally is cut from BOTH ABC and XYZ. so sad.

I get it
 

I think we are talking about 2 different things here. This is just my opinion, but if you keep an open mind and go through recruitment and join a chapter on campus that you love will you really care that some girls going through recruitment didn't think they were the best house on campus? Now if we are talking about social probation I think that is a different issue. At the end of the day, though, if you think ABC is the BEST house on campus, but they are on social probation do you not want to join here? I think we need to call a spade a spade because I'm guessing if ABC is the best house on campus you don't care if they are on social probation.

I don't think it is bad to know what a reputation is of a particular house, but remember that this it is my opinion. I might think ABC is trashy and you might think ABC is super classy. Who is right? If you listened to me then you would walk into the door thinking "this is the trashy group on campus, whatever, I don't care if they like me or not" in fact you wont even try because you want to be an XYZ and don't give a crap about ABC because they are so not you.

At the end of the day I think this is what this boils down to. I go through recruitment and because of tent talk I only want to be an XYZ. Really, I know NOTHING about them, I don't even know one person in the house, but EVERY ONE says "they are the best on campus" I have my heart set on them. I make it through round one! YAY! I dodged a bullet. Round 2 I'm feeling good XYZ invited me back and I'm sitting on top of the world. I just know that I am meant to be an XYZ. Everyone tells me "you would make the perfect XYZ" and they are the BEST chapter on campus (according to whose rules?). I walk to to get my invites for round 3 and NO XYZ?! WHAT!!!??? How could this be???!!! Everyone has told me I would be the perfect XYZ and they dropped me??!! That is the only house I want to join? I'm done, I'm quitting. I don't like or want any of these other houses I have been invited back to. This is what keeping an open mind is all about. The ability to look at the invitations you have left, go to the parties and carry on. I didn't get my first choice of a sorority when I went through recruitment. I carried on and joined a great house- perfect for me in every way. My niece was dropped by her favorites prior to preference, she carried on and joined a great house and had a great experience. So is it good to know what the reputations are? maybe, but in the end does it really matter? As far as the scandal goes?, IDK, what exactly is a scandal and a few years ago? IMO means 3 years it wont effect you at all. Keeping an open mind means that when all the chapters that you really love release you continue on and give other chapters a second chance. If after you fully participate in recruitment after preference your sitting there and HATE all your options, then lets talk. OK, so I'll step off my soap box now.

Another thing to think about:

I went into recruitment wanting to join one of 2 houses, but I also kept an open mind but pretty much thought that I would fit in best with one of these 2. It took all of about 1 round of recruitment for me to realize I liked 3 or 4 chapters more than the original 2 I was thinking about. For round 2, I only had one of the 2 left and I still wasn't all that thrilled with them...but had my other top 4 and LOVED their parties. By the end of recruitment I had fallen in love with a house that I liked the best every round of recruitment and it was one that I didn't know anyone in and wasn't one of the 2 I thought I wanted to join. So, I got my first choice house, but it wasn't my first choice before rush started...but it was my number 1 all of recruitment.

I'm at an SEC school, like you are, and of course it's only natural to be curious of what the reputations are...I was. But I also remained very open minded. Maybe I'm not the best to offer you advice about not hearing the reputations because I ended up with my first choice and with a house my campus considers "top tier" but I also really liked some "middle" and "bottom" houses and had I listened to tent talk I might not have considered some houses even though I wanted to remain open minded the whole time. I didnt care so long as I LIKED THE HOUSE. So, I guess i'm saying to just be cautious of what you hear because it can really hurt your recruitment even if you dont intend it to.

You guys make a lot of excellent points.
No, I'm not going to let some girl I meet under a tent completely alter my opinion about a certain group. However, if she reiterates statements that I've heard from seven other people that ABC is full of party girls, I'm going to take that information and ask questions when I go to that house about their social events to see how much emphasis they really put on partying while, if I hadn't heard about their reputation, I probably wouldn't ask the question. If the girl started gushing about how they go out at least 5 times a week so it's always a guaranteed good time, I'm going to know that ABC isn't really my scene since I like to go out a maximum of once a week. Does that make sense?
I get the whole "it goes both ways thing" and respect it.
Also, reputation matters. I don't mean that in a "omg i lyke totes want 2 b in XYZ cuz teh frats luv them" way, but in a "I'm going to wear a shirt with my letters on it and you're going to judge me for it and I'd like to be prepared for the things you think" way. It doesn't matter whether the reputation is based of fact or entirely fabricated because those people are going to treat you according to that reputation anyway. Yes, I would disregard a less-than-excellent reputation if I loved 100% of the girls in DEF and knew it was perfect, but if I loved 60% and couldn't yet decide if I felt "at home," a reputation I'd have to battle constantly would be a factor worth considering.
Social probation is something I have never even considered. Thankfully, none of the chapters at my school will be on social probation this fall (unless they royally screw up in the next few weeks)
I fully understand and agree with giving every chapter an equal chance regardless of whatever information you may have heard about them, but I don't think seeking the information is bad if you do it properly. One of my favorite houses going into this process is a middle tier at best sorority so, while I don't really care about tiers, I want to know what they are and what the dynamics have been for the past few years (as you said, things can change). But, then again, I'm also that girl who always needs to know what time it is for absolutely no reason. I guess I just like to know things, to be aware and ready.

Exactly. Tent talk spreads like wildfire. Suzie PNM could tell people in her rush group how ABC is the "super popular thin" house, and how XYZ is the "ugly fat house" and people in her rush group are gonna believe her. Then those people will tell other PNMs and so forth. Soon more than 7 people are going to think of ABC and XYZ in those terms, regardless of how true it is or not.

You have to take it with a grain of salt. If you are going to alter your questions, do it for EVERY sorority. Ask all of them about their social events, instead of the ones that you hear reputations about...etc.

^ditto. There are a number of houses on my campus alone who are considered "party houses" but also have straight laced girls, christian girls, studious girls, whatever in the chapter.

Also, I don't suggest asking questions about socials and whatnot to see if theyre a party chapter... any booze talk is kinda taboo.

There would be no booze talk as I'm aware of the rule against talking about it. But I was under the impression bringing up social events was okay or perhaps mentioning that I stayed in last night baking undercooked brownies and watching The Rescuers with my roommate.
And I'm sure you can find a certain type of girl in every sorority, but, in a different one, the majority will be that type. I don't see the point of altering questions for every sorority. If ABC is known as the extremely conservative group and their dresses are really short, it'll be a conundrum and the point will be moot, but it's worth making a note of whether they're dressed like they're Amish or heading to a club.

I think youre reading too much into things. The chapters at SEC schools are soooo big that honestly, no matter where you get a bid there will be a group of girls who you will click with and you will become friends with. Regardless of if your bid comes from a top, bottom, middle, random house you knew nothing about, or a house where you knew several of the actives.

Don't worry about asking questions to determine reputation...in fact I suggest not doing that. Focus more on your conversation flowing naturally and making a good first impression rather than trying to read into what the girls are wearing, and what kinds of pictures are hanging on the walls, and what Random Active Betty said about a social they had. Just talk the girls naturally and enjoy the conversations and THEN decide if you liked that party/house.

Agreed. Movies and tv shows especially portray sororities with these stereotypical categories as if they were different lunch tables in the high school cafeteria.
ie ABC are sporty girls, DEF are the classy rich girls, GHI are skanks and XYZ are losers. (I'm picturing a scene from Mean Girls lol).

At a school with such a large greek community, every sorority is diverse. The point of not listening to tent talk and keeping an open mind is to realize that categorizing the sororities like that is inaccurate and can put you at a disadvantage if you allow them to cloud your judgement.

Sure you can try and do that, but Greek Chat is not a place where you will find people telling you about tiers or reputations.

Double post.

No, people will treat YOU for the person YOU are. Even if in the back of their heads, they are holding onto a giant generalization about ABC, none of that matters once someone meets you and gets to know you.

And how do you seek the "truth" properly? What is the truth and who knows it? Whothe boys say are the "hottest", who the non-affiliated girls say are the "sluttiest", or who the lacrosse team thinks are the "partiers"?

If you gathered all the sorority members and fraternity members, all the sports teams, all the sisters/cousins/mothers/professors who have an opinion on which sorority is the (insert stereotype here) sorority, what would the results be? I'd bet that there would be few "stand outs" in any given category. Why? Because it's all based on perspective.

The only concrete truths you have at your disposal (if they are all advertised) are things like GPA, social calendars, philanthropy projects, awards and Greek Week standings. Then again, it's just words on paper, because you are missing the key element - the people - the members themselves.

I think that enough people here have given you suggestions. You are free to find any information you want and believe it. These women are trying to help you have a successful recruitment. If you don't want to listen and think that you know the best way to approach recruitment, then why did you come here?

You are quite snippy. I just wanted to discuss something that I didn't understand. There's no guarantee that I'll agree with the masses at the end of it all.
And, as I have said before, I think you can seek the information, but require it to be validated or take it with a grain of salt. I am of the opinion that it is good to be aware of the various things people associate with an organization, but, as I also said before, it doesn't affect how I'll go into rush and interact with the girls. I'm going to be trying to find a connection with every house, regardless of what I have heard.

I think that's an overstatement. You're describing what everyone SHOULD do, and what mature, knowledgeable people WILL do. But come on -- there are going to be shallow people out there who will treat you like an ABC no matter how well they get to know you. There will also be people who refuse to get to know you well in the first place because you're ABC. This has nothing to do with the Greek system; the world just has shallow people in it. Now, those people are idiots and maybe you don't want to be friends with them anyway, so it's no loss. But it does happen.
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HotBaby18 cam

If you want TRUTH as far whether groups are on probation or have been involved in this or that, check out the school paper. Yes it's not always 100% on the money but they will NOT say "PQR received a 2 year probation" if that's a complete fairy tale.

If there are groups who don't do things the other groups are doing - i.e. they don't sing when you're walking in the house and everyone else did - ask your Rho Chi what's up with that. Do NOT ask anyone in another chapter, that's putting them in a really uncomfortable spot. It may be they just freaking hate singing, but it also may be this is part of a probation.

However, as far as certain groups being "the party sorority" "the geek sorority" etc, I think that the chapters at SEC schools are so big that there's going to be someone in any one that you can connect with. The diversity leads to their being overall homogenous.

There's a difference between being worried for your safety, and being worried that people are going to say stupid crap.

I still dont get why you feel it's best to know reps ahead of time if you intend on pledging a chapter regardless of their rep so long as you liked them during recruitment..... ????

And understand this. It's a good point to make. How those stereotypes affect your life after you become a member of a sorority is also not something you can be immune to.

Say ABC is known as "the rich sorority" and is the favorite sorority for greek-bashers to hate on because their house is so nice, they are a "top tier" chapter at my school and they are known for having southern money. If I rush and love everyone in this house, feel at home, and get a bid from ABC, I'm going to join it because all of those positives are enough to outweigh the fact that the anti-greek community will judge me.
However, if I'm torn between ABC and DEF (an unknown, bottom tier sorority that rarely gets picked on), I'll consider the reputation as a part of my decision. Being "top tier" is not always an easy reputation to handle.
It's not so much wanting to know the tiers or reputations in order to know which sororities are "the good ones," but rather trying to understand the stigma surrounding certain letters in order to be able to weigh it as a factor in the decision process.

Why should you care? You decide to rush because it is something YOU want to do. By the same token you decide on a sorority because YOU feel like you fit in. What Joe Smoe on the street thinks about the organizations shouldn't be entering your mental process at all.

And that right there is the problem. You spent how many posts in this thread saying the exact opposite of that statement?

I'm not sure how I could make this more clear, but I'll try.
I think reputation is one factor in choosing a sorority. It does not need to be the deciding factor.
I would disregard a negative reputation if it was about an issue that did not matter to me or if the positives outweighed the negatives.
I think it is naive to be unaware of the reputations of certain houses. Ignorance may be bliss, but I'd rather be informed.
I understand that not all reputations are based on fact. However, they will affect a member of the organization and I think it's okay to want to know what you're getting yourself into.
I think every PNM should give each house a fair shot during the actual parties of rush and, when it comes time to rank, consider all possible variables, including reputations.

We aren't arguing, right? This is just a discussion of opinions.

I'm not sure how we can make this any clearer, but I'll try.

REPUTATIONS SHOULDN'T AFFECT YOUR RECRUITMENT DECISIONS.

If you absolutely love an organization, who cares what Random Reggie has to say about your house? While there may be some truth to reputations, most of them are usually rooted in BS (Joe Smith dated an XYZ, they broke up, and now XYZ is the "slut" or "ugly" house).

Listen to what these women (who have already gone through recruitment) are telling you. They're not idiots.

This is probably true. I, as well as most incoming freshmen, tend to worry too much about what other people think.

This is very true.

Now that you recognize this, don't fall into the trap of caring what anyone else thinks.

Why do you give a flying fig about what the anti-Greek community thinks? FWIW, I joined probably the most laid-back sorority at a very overall laid-back school (like, the complete opposite of SEC) and I STILL had people say things to me like "I would never pay for my friends" and "sororities separate you from everyone else."

Haters gonna hate, period. If you let them influence what you do and the choices you make, this is just the beginning of a long and miserable life. You started this with some valid concerns, but now you're just being really shallow and silly.

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Just wondering. How do you intend to validated the information in a timely fashion (no hear say, but with facts) to make an informed decision during rush?

I believe that TakeALook came here looking for reputations about the sororities and is now upset that she’s not going to receive any such information from us.

However.. I will say this.. I have been a member of this board for just over 2 years now, and I have read many threads started by many new members and active sisters who have had questions/concerns/complaints about their sorority… but I can’t think of ONE where someone said, “The hockey team thinks we’re all fat.. what do I do?!” or “My friend told me that ABC has a bad reputation.. I don’t want to be a member anymore!”

When I joined my sorority, I must say there were some good-looking girls in the chapter. Not drop-dead gorgeous, but they didn’t have a problem getting any attention from guys, either. I will admit, it was a little intimidating at first. However, I still heard, “You can’t spell nasty without AST” more times than I can count. I had people tell me that they were stuck up bitches and were sooooo exclusive. A male acquaintance, after I told him I had attended two of their recruitment events, asked, “Wow, do you think they’ll actually let you join?” And he was serious. And it wasn’t an insult to me, but to them.

But a sister actually came to my dorm and brought me to a recruitment event, and I had such a great time. The girls were amazing. And even in a chapter as small as mine, they were all so different. I knew that's where I wanted to be... regardless of what anyone else thought.

I only hope for your sake, TakeALook, that you didn't let others' opinions determine where you're attending school... or what to major in... or who your boyfriend is... or who your friends are!