How Moms Should Treat Their Legacy Daughters
 

Okay, story, then a question:

I recently spoke with a girl from my church who will be going through recruitment at an SEC school in the fall. Her mom was Greek at this school, but she decided to ask me for some recruitment advice. Even though I did not attend the school the PNM will be rushing at, I gave her the usual standard SEC recruitment advice and told her that she might want to ask her mom for more information specific to this school.

Then I offered to write her a recommendation for Delta Gamma, and she responded: "My mom won't let me get recommendations for other chapters because she says the only one she will pay for me to be in is [her own chapter]."

This is an SEC school with what is considered a VERY competitive recruitment. The PNM's mother is a member of a very sought-after chapter on that campus, and being a legacy does not in any way guarantee this PNM a bid in any situation, but especially when she is an out-of-state PNM who knows no one in the chapter.

1. WHY would this mom sabotage her daughter's recruitment by refusing to allow her daughter to seek recommendations for or even consider membership in any other chapter?

2. The larger issue: I would expect that most mothers would love for their daughters to join them as sisters... but how should moms treat their legacy daughters with respect to recruitment? Is there a way for a mother to encourage her daughter to consider her own house more heavily without destroying her chances at every other house on campus?

Mom is delusional and thinks her daughter will be a shoo-in because she's a legacy. Mom will probably go ape-shit when daughter doesn't get invites, all because mom was a selfish, under-informed twit. I suspect even if someone tells her the protocol with recs and SEC schools, she won't believe it.

Daughter should get some recs on the down low ASAP.

I think if a mother has good experiences to share about her time in the sorority, is still an involved alumna member and this has been known by the daughter all her life, it will naturally influence the daughter. A mother who is also open and knows that the daughter may find the same thing with another group will likely make the daughter comfortable as well.

The last thing you want would be a mother so hellbent and uptight about the daughter joining her group that she makes the daughter terrified to "fail" at recruitment, thus guaranteeing she gets no bids because she can't be relaxed and herself during any recruitment parties. Or it just naturally makes the daughter not want to go greek at all just to defy mom.

1. I bet mom doesn't know that she is sabotaging her daughter's recruitment. Odds are, in her chapter, while she was there legacy=in. She's probably not aware of how things have changed. Also possible is that she really only would want her daughter in her GLO and doesn't care about her daughter's happiness beyond that.

2. I think moms can talk up their college sorority experience, their philanthropy and the reasons why XYZ was good for them. But they shouldn't push or pressure or expect that their daughter fits into the XYZ niche at Campus U. I do like that so many of our national sites have links for parents to read, but I think the college panhellenics may need to reach out to the parents more in these cases. They have to learn about how things have changed somehow. (And obviously moms need to be willing to listen to college panhellenics too)

This is what I was thinking -- time warp.

dgdramadawg, how well do you know the mom? Do you think you could have a conversation with her that doesn't reveal anything daughter told you other than that's she's going through recruitment? Somethink like, "Daughter told me she's rushing/going through recruitment at SEC school! I know you'd be thrilled if she joined your chapter there. It's too bad times have changed and being a legacy doesn't have the same weight it used to . . . ." See where it goes from there?

Lane swerving big time, and merely FWIW, but in my experience with friends and family who are in NPC sororities, philanthropy was not a big deal back in the day. By that, I certainly don't mean that doing charitable/philanthropic things weren't a big deal. They were. I mean rush didn't include a philanthropy round (I don't think), and the idea of connecting with a particular group because you liked their philanthropy just didn't seem to be part of the picture at all. While I may have been ignorant, I don't remember particular sororities being associated with particular philanthropies.* GC introduced me to the current importance of that idea.

Maybe I just wasn't noticing, though.

/back to my lane.

*ETA: The major exception to this was Pi Beta Phi and Arrowmont.

No, you're probably right MC, I just included it for the sake of completeness.

No, you can ride in our lane, MC. I know that the philanthropy had zero to do with the sorority I joined. I think if, say, you had someone near you go through breast cancer it can maybe make you look twice at ZTA if you hadn't before, but when it comes down to it I would say maybe 0.00001% of girls join because of the group's philanthropy.

As for deludanoid mom:

1) Show her some of the "my perfect daughter got cut" stories on here. Tell her she is setting her daughter up to fail, period. Not only that, what if she hates mom's sorority and they hate her? Even if she gets in or Mom buffaloes her in, no one will be happy. Then again I don't think that sort of parent really cares about their child's happiness, they care about them being the perfect ornament to show their "accomplishment" of child rearing.* :rolleyes:

2) "I would love it if you pledged the same group I did, because I've gotten so much happiness and so many lifelong friends from it. However, I know that campuses are different/chapters change over time and I want you to join the group that will make you the most content. So don't get too focused on XYZ."

Also: if Mom has a Facebook page and is reconnecting with her college friends, it can help to show Daughter how many of those friends were from different sororities and not just her own. In other words, this is not just lip service about other chapters being awesome.

*Does it bug the living f%&k out of anyone else when you hear a parent say "my greatest accomplishments/achievements are my children"? Getting the deck refinished is an accomplishment. A child is a living breathing human being.

I do know one newly-minted alumna for whom Pi Phi's association with literacy was a bid attraction.

Yes! If you're going to claim anything having to do with your children as an accomplishment, it should be "my greatest accomplishment is not screwing up parenting too much."

No, you are correct.

I was in college during the early 90s and there was no philanthropy round and most chapters on my campus did not even have a signature philanthropy event. DG had anchorsplash, which I think may have been a national thing, but beyond that I don't remember a single other event and we had 10 chapters. It wasn't that we weren't good people- we were!- but we obtained our service hours through individual service projects. However, service hours were not something that was highlighted during recruitment, and my favorable memories of sorority life do not really include them.

Back to the original post, a few things. First, I find the story completely heartbreaking for that PNM. Mommy really needs to get a grip and start letting daughter live her own life. I can't believe that someone would be selfish enough to actually put that type of pressure on their own child.

The suggestions to talk with the mom are excellent. Times have completely changed and most of that generation have not kept up. OP- do you think mom is nutty enough to really follow through with the threat of not paying? I was going to suggest that you help her get the other recs, but what if she gets a bid to a different group? Would she have to depledge because the PNM alone can't afford SEC dues?

ETA: everyone must type fast than I do. Sorry for the repeat info.

YES. If it's really true, you are a sad person. I'm proud of my daughter*, but her accomplishments are HERS, not mine. I have my own accomplishments.


*I'm proud of the son, too. However, potty training is his biggest accomplishment so far, and if it becomes the greatest accomplishment of his life, I may have to rescind that. Just kidding. (Kind of ;) )

It's comments like this that make me wish I could "like" comments on GC.

I don't know the mom super well, just the daughter through her older sister (who I taught and who - apparently mercifully - went to a school without Greek life). I don't want to be pushy with the mom since I don't know her all that well, but I did tell the PNM to keep in mind that both my sister and I were cut by our legacy chapter at Bama and UGA. She seemed surprised and told me she would tell her mom.

I was also thinking that maybe this mom IS well-informed and thus knows that the campus in question has guaranteed bidding for PNMs who maximize their options. Maybe she is counting on her daughter being cut by all of the other houses since she won't have recs and will be at a disadvantage... and then her legacy chapter will have to take her in the end if they are the only one left?

I don't know what she's thinking... she seems like a bright woman and I just can't imagine she believes her daughter is a shoo-in.

I spoke to alumnae from a couple of other sororities who know the PNM (and now know the crazy situation), and we are all planning on writing recs for the girl without the girl or mom knowing. Hopefully this will at least prevent a total disaster in August, and she won't get in trouble for seeking recs when her mom told her not to.

]I was hoping that my daughter would like zta the best and it would work out for her to pledge, but we made sure she had multiple recs. to all the chapters and i told her that she needed to find the place that was right for her. and had it been some other sorority, i would have sent an arrangment of those flowers to her and done some online shopping for owls, pandas, ladybugs or lions!

The only guarantee is "if you go back to everywhere you're invited to you'll get a bid." You're not guaranteed to get those invites to begin with. If the chapter has 359 legacies they like more than her, she could be SOL.

Very true... just trying to get inside the mom's head.

I might try to bring it up with the mom if I happen to run into her, but I don't want to call her out of the blue to tell her I think she's delusional (not in so many words, but you know what I mean). I worry that she'll think I'm just trying to tell her that I know her alma mater better than she does (which, clearly, I do).

ew, this woman is a wee bit crazy. If the daughter is open to other chapters than the one her mom was in, maybe just keep going with the plan to secure recs without her knowing. Do you know if she has any interest in pledging one of the non-legacy houses?

She might get lucky and have all of the other chapters assume she will be going to her legacy house and thus cut her, but since she'll be at an SEC school anything can happen.

Perhaps you could very innocently call the mother and say you'd be so happy to sponsor Susie to DG if she doesn't already have a DG one and ask her to send you the girl's resume. I doubt she'll tell you that she's not letting the girl get any other recs outside her legacy group!

Do you like the girl going through recruitment? Is she nice/intelligent (other than being under her mother's thumb?)?/and a possible good addition to a house? I would write a rec for her anyway. And after recruitment is over (especially if she joins the house that you gave a rec for) show the mom the rec.

After this girl leaves home, with or without recruitment, she is going to change. And perhaps she will be interested in other house and perhaps not. You will help give her options. As for her mother........omg......I think that I know moms like her.

Funny story about what people did or did not know during recruitment. When I rushed AXiD, there was no philanthropy round, and things like symbols and mottoes weren't talked about. The day after pinning (pledge induction), I was going through the my pledge manual, and was thrilled to find out some very cool coincidences:

- Writing has always been one of my two passions (the other is acting). In high school, I always used the phrase "The Pen is Mightier than the Sword", (which I later found out is AXiD's motto).

- I also used to do calligraphy, learning in the sixth grade. I had an old-style quill and inkwell as well as more modern pens, and a number of different sized nibs. I later found out that the Quill is AXiD's symbol and the shape of the member badge.

- AXiD's national philanthropy at the time was the American Lung Association. I have lung disease, and it touched me that women across the country were dedicated time and resources to support a cause that deeply affects me.

I remember calling my mom and crying because I had felt an amazing connection.

Some other things that have happened that just reinforce the knowledge that I am in the right place. You know the saying that "being an ___ is not something you become, but something you've always been"? That was me. And I knew none of this stuff going into rush (COB).

To bring this back on topic, the PNM mentioned in the OP might not even feel a connection to her legacy chapter. I feel really bad that the mother is so insistent and controlling. Just like the mom probably had a choice (there's no mention that the daughter is a double legacy), so should her daughter.

Being a legacy, even an in-house legacy, does not guarantee you a bid. The chapter will invite this young lady back to the first invitation-only round during FR, but after that, anything could happen - especially since this is an SEC school where there are tons of legacies going through every year. And even if her legacy status did guarantee her a bid, what if she doesn't like the chapter?

Mom could simply be ignorant of the way things have changed. Or she could be trying to control her daughter - "she WILL be an XYZ like I was, or she won't go greek at all!" It's hard to tell from just a couple of posts.

dgdramadawg, I think you and the other alums you spoke to are doing the right thing. At least, this way, she won't be automatically cut for not having recs. Then, the rest is up to her.

but the fact that the mom is only willing to pay for her daughter's sorority dues if she goes XYZ makes me think the mom is just being stubborn. that alone makes me question whether its simply a misunderstanding of the rules regarding legacies, or if the mom just doesnt want to have anything to do with her daughter pledging at another house.

Going through recruitment as a legacy is hard. Trying to decide if it's worth it to go your own way or honor the bond with your family member is difficult without that family member breathing down your neck. I pity this girl for having this hella-mom (not heli-mom.) I predict an early drop out.

Even this is no longer true at every chapter and every school now.

Edited to add:

A fairly new article or opinion piece related to the alumna-and-daughter topic is on the Delta Delta Delta site. The article's title:
“MY DAUGHTER’S AN ADPI, WHAT’S YOURS? (Musings from a newly educated Delta)”

It's in the “Recruitment Demystified” portion of the site, which is in PDF and can be accessed from this page:

https://www.tridelta.org/Collegian/Recruitment/



Sounds like a decent plan.

Speaking of "total disaster," isn't part of the excitement / fun of recruitment going to parties where a PNM meets new people? Since the PNM's going to a school where recs are a must, she could really have a downer of a recruitment, couldn't she, if she doesn't have recs for any org except her mom's? Sitting around "partyless" (except maybe for the legacy chapter) when others are out meeting and greeting doesn't sound like much fun.

My daughter just asked me if she HAS to join my group
 

My daughter will be heading for college in 3 years. She has grown up at the AXO house running around there since she has been a toddler. She just asked me the other day if she HAD to join AXO. I told her she could join any where she wanted to and that she didn't have to be an AXO if she didn't want to. As much as I would LOVE her to be an AXO I think she has the right to choose to join another Chapter if she wants. Heck, she may not even want to go through recruitment. Just because I love it doesn't mean she will. The only way I would encourage my dd to pledge AXO on a specific campus is if I knew a lot about that specific Chapter. Even if she were to go to the college I went to there are no guarantees that the Chapter would be the same or a good fit for her.

My guess is that Mom doesn't understand how much recruitment has changed since she was at school. I'm glad you guys are going to write her recs, but if she is feeling this type of pressure before recruitment my guess is she will be reluctant to join another Chapter for fear of facing the wrath of Mommy Dearest.

Can you imagine Mommy Dearest's reaction if the legacy chapter cuts her darling?? :eek:

Can you imagine being the one to make THAT phone call?? (If AXO does that...)

Even if that is the case, the fact that what was right for her 20-30 years ago might not be right for her daughter hasn't even crossed the selfish heffa's mind. This is along the same lines of the moms with weight problems who make their (perfectly healthy and thin) daughters crazy about their weight - although I think that one's a little less deliberate.

She said in the OP that daughter is going to mom's school, so the chapter in question at the SEC school is mom's chapter.

True but it may be more a matter of "when" then.

You know I would say it was just ignorance, if not for the fact that her mom would only pay for her legacy chapter. It seems to me she wants her daughter to be her Sister or not Greek at all.

Perhaps it could be some of both -- if she thinks daughter is an automatic for her chapter, that could color her view of what daughter should do.

I have a question for you all about legacies. If I knew some super important legacy was going through (example, her twin sister is currently in the chapter, her mom was in the chapter, her great ancestor started that particular chapter of the organization, etc), I would probably be hard pressed to cut her. As long as she wasn't rude and obnoxious, the fact that maybe she didn't have a good conversation flow with one of the members wouldn't make me want to cut her, while as for any other girl it would be. There are no guarentees, obviously but I think a huge connection like that is more important. This is not the situation for all people, but I wouldn't, would you?

I didn't think anybody but NPHC parents said they wouldn't pay for any other organization :)

Just saying as a mother of two wonderful teenaged children, are you sure the girl wasn't "stretching the wool" a little bit? I agree if the writer really likes this girl and wants to write her a rec, call the Mom and offer. The worst thing that can happen is that you find out Mom is as wacky as she appears and write the rec anyway. Mom may have been joking or just out of touch or Daughter may be a little bit of a drama queen who has watched too many movies/t.v. shows about sororities. Remember, we are talking about eighteen year olds. Yes, in-house legacies get cut at SEC and other schools. Legacies don't count for what they used to.

So would that possibly qualify as "a thing"?

dgdramadawg, I think it is terrific of you and your friends to go ahead and write recs for this girl. She doesn't know what a good friend she has in you!

My God daughter is going through recruitment in August at an SEC school. Her mom was in a glo in Ohio, where recs were and still are, unnecesary and legacies get a lot of consideration. When I told her we needed to get one (preferably two) recs for each chapter, she pointed to the recruitment book which says prominently, "Recs are not necessary. If a chapter needs a recomendation for you, it is their responsibility to get it for you.". I screamed, "NOOOOOO!!!!" Then told her we were getting recs. Period. I also told her that legacy status meant nothing, since the chapter probably had 50 or more legacies going through.

WHY do SEC schools (and other schools that require recs) say they aren't necessary? That makes me crazy. Girls in the know, KNOW, and everyone else is SOL.

Let's hope your girl's Mom is just clueless and narrow minded. That's better than the alternative (that she's a out to make her daughter's life miserable.

Anyway, you are doing a nice thing!

FTW

Really? It's still AEPhi's policy, unless something has changed that I don't know about. (Note that I went to a school where recruitment was not super-competitive. In my entire time as an active, I never even saw a rec. A legacy would pretty much have had to torch the rush room to get cut after open houses.) Is this a side effect of the current release figures method, or is it because there are so many more legacies attending college now than there were 20 or 30 or 40 years ago?

You'd be surprised :)

One of my fellow chapter founders has an aunt who is an AEPhi. She didn't quite go so far as to refuse to pay her daughters' dues if they joined sororities other than AEPhi, but she would not permit them to apply to any college that didn't have an AEPhi chapter - which meant they were forbidden to apply to a lot of excellent schools. For all her efforts, none of her daughters actually went AEPhi.

Don't know what you mean :confused: but my question still stands.