Nebraskan city to hold immigration vote
 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/us_...a/10364664.stm



A city in the US state of Nebraska is to vote on whether to ban local businesses and landlords from hiring or renting to illegal immigrants.

The vote in Fremont is the result of a two-year fight by residents concerned by an influx of Hispanic workers.

It follows an immigration law passed recently in Arizona which critics have said could lead to racial profiling.

Other states and cities want similar laws, saying the federal government has failed to tackle the problem.

US President Barack Obama has made immigration reform a priority, but has warned the task is being made harder by the actions of Arizona, Fremont and others.

The residents of Fremont will vote on whether businesses should be banned from hiring illegal immigrants and landlords should be barred from renting them property.

The campaign for such a law began two years ago amid concerns that the Hispanic population in the 25,000-strong city had gone from 165 in the 1990s to an estimated 2,000 - drawn mainly to work at a nearby meat-packing plant.

A proposed law - similar to the one being put to the vote on Monday night - was narrowly defeated when put forward by a city council member in 2008.

This is stupid, it's already illegal to HIRE someone who isn't legally able to work in the U.S.

Yes but now the local cops can spend all their time dealing with it (and/or ignoring it, it'll pretty much be all or nothing).

Immigration reform, we need it. This, not so much with the helping.

I wonder if these people know about E-Verify?

Buggy system and people complain because people get 90 days to straighten things out if they're on their wrongly. Also I don't think it solves people using someone else's SSN?

Better than nothing though.

It tracks it though. If it was mandatory nationwide we would be able to see that the same SSN is concurrently used in two or three different jobs in two or three different states.

I think it's hard to make it mandatory yet, i don't know about the legal issues involved but i think it has like a .5% error rate and out of 330 million SSNs that's a lot.

I also don't know how illegal SSNs work, whether it's usually a stolen ID, a sold one, if it's duplicated across the country or they're careful not to 'resell' so to speak. Then at some point you'd have to cross the system with all the states to track disability, TANF, Medicaid, etc. And besides the logistical issues of every state running their own system, you start getting the Big Brother people really freaked out.

It's something to work on, obviously.

Thats what I was thinking.

It's run by DHS so every employer in the country would be going through them. Fraud is an issue but could be stopped by using biometrics, but then you'd have people really freaking out ;)

No I mean you'd have to cross check the SSNs with the state level TANF/Medicaid system. I'm not sure if SSI/SSDI is managed at the federal or state level but odds are even on the federal level it's on another system. Because if you know the SSNs will cross check with other jobs, people who are not working would be an ideal target.

And yes, next thing you know we all have the "Mark of the Beast" in our hands or foreheads or something.

/needs a credit card implanted in an arm or something because I lose mine all the time.

Like a micro-chip? My cats already set for the Armageddon then. I see fingerprints being associated with SSN in the future though, as well as cops having little iPad type things that can read/check prints on the fly. I don't see it as Big Bro, just our lives being more digitalized.

Hell, one can make the arguement that SSN are the "Mark of the Beast".

I'm sure someone already does, the general claim though is that it'll be in your forehead or arm and you won't be able to buy things without it. *Presumes a more literal reading of Revelation*

Well typically for a big purchase you need to use credit, which to apply for credit you need a SSN (traditionally, not always the case now), hmmmm.....;)

It's apparently Mark of the Beats prep: I kid you not, Conspiracy is in the URL

It depends what immigration reform you want to see. It's such a vague term when you think about it. I think the reform she is talking about is an amnesty bill, which would accomplish a lot in the sense that we would no longer have anyone here illegally.

Anybody else get a MMITY vibe?

No, there would have been a racial slur or two in his post if it was MM

Just wait for it. He was going to say that immigration isn't the problem, it's the lazy n* that are.

Reforming immigration. That was a silly question.

Oh geez, there you went taking it seriously. It does depend, and I'm not really sure what I want to see done but it's somewhere between "Annexing Mexico" and "Kick the brown people out." So you know, I've got a range.




My first thought. My second was why even bother participating in the discussion if that's all you bring.

I didn't say I wanted amnesty.

We need immigration reform so people will stop whining about how illegal immigrants take all their jobs.

Um the only reason they undercut wages IS because they are here illegally. If they were legal, then they would be able to claim the same labor laws as everybody else.

Yes, but you are talking too separate issues. By your logic even if we didn't have illegals, we would still have the problem with people being payed illegally under the table. Though I don't think it would be as bad if we had a much lower amount of illegal immigrants. The only reason it is so common now is because they have so many people who quite frankly are open to victimization because of their status.

Are you worried that some illegal is going to steal your job super.fly? Get educated and trained in a skill that is viable and profitable. The "typical" border jumper has at most a 6th grade education and cannot speak English, so if he does take your job it must not have been anything worth crying over.

When you learn how to read what I actually wrote instead of making it up in your head, I'll actually reply to you.

Yeah the reason most people can't live off the grid and under the table is that they're trackable. The relatively few people who manage it are living under other identities (and thus still tracked, just not as themselves) or have removed themselves completely - paid in cash or in trade, either own their place outright or live with someone else, provide their own food or rely primarily on charity.

There's always the gray market but the "well employers will still cheat people even if they're legal" argument is a bad one.

Yep, I hear ya.

But, amnesty will make it more difficult (not impossible, more difficult) for shady employers (shady capitalists) to violate labor laws and cut costs. When people are no longer here illegally and are no longer running from the law, they are more empowered to fight for their rights across the board.

I feel a disturbance in the MMITY

That disturbance is getting stronger...

Didn't we try the amnesty thing before?

Until we're actually ready to enforce the laws on the books and properly guard the border, we shouldn't do anything.

If we can do those things, I think some sort of quick path to citizenship, or at least a low cost work permit program would be a better option. Until then, we all subsidize illegal immigration anyway through their drawing on our social services, criminal and civil justice systems, driving on our roads, etc.

Priority one, however, must be building a system where never again will there be an entire class of people who has to live in the shadows.

LOL. If it is madmax, I never had a problem with him. I always appreciated his larger points and ignored his ignorant points. :)

I don't like the term, " Doing jobs Americans won't do", because I don't feel like thts the case. I think they are getting paid wages that Americans can't survive on. I think if these so called unwanted jobs paid 11-13 dollars an hour you would see more US citizens applying for them. If we make everyone legal and give them the protection of labor laws and higher wages, who's to say the demand for migrant workers will be there anymore.

I don't remember. Anything's possible.

I hear ya. As with all other social, political and economic topics, this is tough and there are no quick and fool proof solutions that will be fully supported and fully effective.

I rather agree, but it was the new guy who flipped out and really brought amnesty into this discussion in the first place.

I wonder though, with the number of illegal immigrants working under false SSNs and paying into the system with no way to withdraw from it - are we talking a net drain on resources or not? And how big is that actual drain? It's probably impossible to know, but it seems few people actually include what they put into the system as well as what they take out.
I agree that it's a lot about wages, however migrant workers are different from illegal immigrants. Unless I'm behind it's still possible to work here temporarily for the harvest season as a migrant worker and return home each year.

I do think that there's something also to be said about wanting cheap produce and products. If we're only willing to pay X for orange juice, they'll only pay Y. If they start paying Y+Z for workers, orange juice will cost more than X.

/solve for Y

That's because so many Americans try to live beyond their means. And yes, there are a LOT of jobs that many refuse to take due to the wages...been to your local fast food joint lately? Seen any changes? Not just in racial make up but age range of those working the counter?? Not teens anymore.

Listen bitch, I pay more taxes in one month then you probably do all year, and since I've yet to breed I don't get a penny of it back. If you're so worried about the cost of health care I suggest you get a job with a better health insurance plan.

You think you can live on a minimum wage job? Or even two minimum wage jobs? Good luck.

Big word seem hard for you.

You. Are. A. Moron.

Apparently one who has the word amnesty flashing over his eyes so that he can't see anything else and it makes him go :mad::mad::mad: *whargarble*

We had an amnesty in the late 80s. It was supposed to be a One time only fix all for the illegal immigrant problem. 20 years later we have 18-20 million illegals living here, hence the contention people have over the idea of another amnesty.

To be clear, that phrase didn't come from my post.

It's funny because I was going to express my hatred for that phrase, which has been used against Blacks for decades, but I decided to spare GC of my soapbox.

Illegal immigrants (and many nonwhite legal immigrants from across the globe) are getting paid wages that feed capitalism. Minimum input and maximum output. Illegal immigrant populations are perfect targets for low wage and menial labor because their immigrant status shapes their rights and perceptions of their opportunities. I'll end my soapbox there.

Oh...I agree with you Drole...but some of these jobs that are low paying that American's won't take, immigrants have taken and somehow stretched that money because they aren't pressed about trying to 'be like the jones'.

Not saying that you have to live 'well' , but I do think for some this may be a lesser of 2 evils...not to mention you have some people that actually pool their resources together to get by...most of them are doing what we try to do by ourselves. :D

Another small point you brought up...the issue with social security...I am thinking...and correct me if I am wrong...but with at least an SSN, you can probably take a change and get an above minimum wage job and not have to worry too much about working under the table....til you get caught.

Minimum wage isn't under the table though, it's absolutely unlivable. You need job skills to get a job over the table, and most Mexican immigrants are not highly educated.

There's a reason why there's a stereotype of illegal immigrants living in large numbers within a tiny apartment or home. Pooling money make things possible. Also manual labor CAN pay fairly well instead of paying under minimum, some employers will just pay under the fair wage instead. Still a rip off.

It's possible to squeak by if you have 2 minimum wage jobs and a shitty apartment and just you and your spouse. Varies based on where you live, but you pretty much need some sort of assistance/charity to do more than that. (Not to mention ER bills if you get sick/hurt.)

I actually recommend the episode of 30 days on this issue.