Should fine dining establishments go out of their way to accomodate toddlers?
 

What say you, GC?

NYT Article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/09/ny...s.html?cnn=yes

She finishes the article with a list of places.

Read the comments. I tend to agree with most of the commenters against this idea.

AND, on CNN.com:
http://www.cnn.com/2010/LIVING/wayof....html?hpt=Sbin
More at the source.

So, thoughts?

No they should not, says the mother of a 3 yr old and a 1 yr old. There are plenty of places that I can go with my kids. In addition, there are plenty of sitters if my husband and I want an upscale meal.

Hell no.

Nope.

I love kids. I love babies. I also know how expensive those places mentioned in the article are, and if you can afford to have a $20 individual pizza in a department store that sells $2,000 shoes, you can afford a babysitter. That's the reason there are "Family" restaurants like TGIFriday's or Romano's Macaroni Grill. Babies are okay there. Babies are NOT okay in Fred's.

Well, it's easy to see where some kids get their sense of entitlement. If this had been happening 5 years ago, before these parents had children, they would have been some of the most vocal against it. But now that it's *their* children, it's now acceptable, and even encouraged? Way to only think of yourselves.

I love my kids. I love them to death. But I don't want them (or anyone else's kids) interrupting my very lovely, most likely very expensive, meal. There's a reason we don't eat out very often, and if we do, it's to a family-friendly restaurant.

This.

Considering that the point of going to Joel Robuchon's restaurants or Daniel Boulud's Cafe Boulud is almost as much the ambience as it is the food, I'd say that having children there is a huge NO! At least she didn't take her child to Daniel! I've eaten at 20 or so of NYC's top 50 restaurants, and I've never had adults making idiots out of themselves disturbing my dinner, so saying that this justifies letting children dine with their parents is absurd. Diners at these establishments are paying good money for a nice experience and don't need it ruined by someone else's poorly controlled children. They can experience the restaurant with their children when the kids are old enough to remember it!

If by "accomodate" you mean "have a soundproof room to stick them in" then yeah, I'll get on board with that. But if I go to a NICE restaurant, the last thing I want is a baby/toddler crying, stinking, drooling or all of the above next to me.

Really all you need to say about this.

After our last flight to Florida, my dad and sister got the idea of starting adults-only flights...

this! lmfaoooooooooo @ that clip. i'm gonna watch it again.

I hate kids so no I don't want them dining with me at a high end, expensive restaurant. I don't want them on my flights either. Kids usually aren't happy when flying but I enjoy flying and I want to continue to enjoy flying, which can't happen when some little kid is crying the whole trip or kicking my seat. If you want to go eat with your kid, take them to a family restaurant. Sorry if it sounds harsh but I really can't stand children who misbehave and their parents do nothing about it. We were at my cousin's first communion and the people's baby behind us cried the entire mass all 1 1/2 hours.

Besides, the average kid would rather be anywhere other than that nice restaurant.

I agree with that, too.

I think the problem lies with the parents. They should be practicing how to eat out, AT HOME, with their kids. How to order. How to behave. How to ask for extra something-or-other, POLITELY. But, the vast majority of families that I see in restaurants (and yes, some of these include highly-zagat rated restaurants here in Chicgao), DON'T do that.

Some kids can handle it, others can't, but that has much to do with the age of the child and how much practice they've had at home. Unfortunately, we can't count on the majority of these families to be well-prepared.

And if I see ONE MORE portable DVD player pulled out in a mid-level to fine dining establishment, I'm seriously going to lose my shit. If I wanted to eat in front of the TV I'd have stayed at home.

And as a commenter pointed out - the "children's menus" at those restaurants aren't healthy or adventurous food that's opening up the kid's palate. They're spaghetti and chicken nuggets at ridiculously jacked up prices. A more responsible parent would take their toddler to the cafe at the food co-op and feed them fresh things that are good for them.

I wouldn't say that the food at any of the high end restaurants I've been to is exactly "healthy."

As a mom of two preschoolers, I agree with those who say kids and upscale restaurants don't mix. If for whatever reason you can't leave your child with a babysitter, then adjust your plans accordingly. You can always choose to go to a different restaurant.

I don't agree with this, though:

That's a bit over-the-top. There are few realistic alternatives to flying. If you and your 8 month old live in NY and Grandma lives in CA, your opportunities to visit Grandma are severely limited if you can't bring your child on an airplane.

But, back OT, I think it's a double-edge sword for the restaurants. They're catering to families because the demand is there. At the same time, they're alienating the rest of their clientele. No win situation, really.

There's been an uptick in restaurants that serve organic, sustainable food that has lower sodium/more healthful options than your usual butter-soaked fare. They're absolutely fantastic, in my estimation.

If we could afford a $100+ meal out more than once or twice a month, I'd definitely go more often. But, you're more likely to find them in larger urban areas, I've noticed.

I still wouldn't take a kid there below the age of 10 or 11.

In fact, I probably wouldn't take teenagers there, either, but that's because I generally hold teenagers (aged 11 to 19.99) in contempt.

Yeah, but those are not the same restaurants we're talking about with this article. L'Atelier, Daniel, Per Se, etc are French restaurants specializing in rich foods with lovely sauces and fattening meats. The healthy options are minimal. Not to mention, the usual 13 course meal has enough food to make you wish there was a vomitorium close by so you could make room for more!

One more edit...There's a restaurant like the ones you're mentioning in Baltimore called Woodbury Kitchen that is to die for. I got mentioned as one of the top 10 restaurants in the DC/Baltimore area about a year ago, now you can barely get a table!

I used to support one of those here in DC. It closed. :(

It's more than a bit over the top.

Besides, I can't imagine how anyone truly enjoys flying these days. I enjoy being other places and flying is the means to get there, but there's nothing enjoyable about flying.

Agreed. And there's a huge difference between a crying baby and a 5 year old kicking the crap out of the back of your seat.

A crying baby generally can't be attributed to bad parenting, lack of control/discipline, etc. Sometimes babies just cry (or sound like they're crying - my 11 week old's version of "talking" right now sounds exactly like the beginning sounds of her crying). You can't do much to shut up a baby sometimes.

I'd categorize the restaurants I'm thinking of on the same level as L'Atelier, Daniel, Per Se, etc., they may not serve French food specifically, but they're certainly "haute cuisine."

Isn't Founding Farmers sort of in that vein? There's also Rock Creek out in Bethesda (which may as well be Guam, I know I know).

I've noticed that a lot of restaurants near me (not upscale, just regular) allow families with small children to sit in the bar area which drives me bonkers. It's not a fancy restaurant and I don't have a problem with kids being there, but if I'm sitting at a table in the bar area I don't want a bunch of maniacs running around.

What restaurants? I wouldn't mind trying them.

I was actually talking about the Rock Creek in Mazza Gallerie!

While my step children are now 12, 13, and 18 and I dont have any of my own (though I greatly desire them), I agree. There is an upscale place here (though certainly not on par with NYC upscale places) that my husband and I enjoy for a quiet, intimate, tasty meal without screaming children. Actually we dont take the step kids to this place either in an attempt to eliminate: the complaining that they dont understand the menu, dont like what is offered on the menu, blowing straw papers at each other, or fear of the youngest son doing something highly inappropriate such as farting.

I think they're still open for events. You'll have to think of a reason to have a big ol' party!

Lately we've been super in love with Rick Bayless, who does sustainable organic Mexican food and hosts a cooking show in addition to owning and operating several restaurants in Chicago. They range in "fancy" from fairly casual (although I was shocked to see people there in jeans, but we also went to a show last Friday and people were wearing jeans there, too) Frontera Grill to slightly fancy Topolobampo, to the Library Room at Topolobampo which features five course meals complete with wine tasting.

All in Chicago, all connected. I know of other "haute" organic places elsewhere but I hestiate to make recommendations as I really only know first or second-hand accounts of places in Chicago.

I've been dying to go to one of Rick Bayless' restaurants, but the last time I was in Chicago, he had taken his whole staff for both places (Frontera Grill and Topolobampo) to Mexico for a retreat! My husband swears we'll go back to Chicago for a culinary tour of the city instead of the usual Cubs weekend with his cheap eats friends.

I recommend all of his restaurants. If you want a quick (but good) and less expensive meal, XOCO is great - Mexican street food. Frontera's good for more casual dining. You can be jealous now - the last time we went to Frontera Maple was in season so they had Maple Flan. Best. Desert. Ever.

Sad thing is, you can't recommend a certain dish, because the menu changes every season!

Agree.

I think it's fine to bring babies, toddlers and children to fine dining restaurants if they are quiet and well-mannered. My family took my brother and I with them to fine restaurants when we were very little because we were taught that going out to a restaurant - any restaurant - was a big deal. They taught us table manners at home and expected us to behave nicely at every meal. When it came to restaurants, they started small - McDonald's, IHOP, Red Robin - and gradually moved us up to "adult" restaurants they enjoyed. We always dressed up, because going out to eat was "special." And if we acted up, we got one (quiet) warning that we would have to leave if we didn't stop. The one time I threw a fit about no grilled cheese sandwich on the menu, WE ALL LEFT AND WENT HOME. I never acted up in a restaurant again.

Far too many ADULTS, let alone children, in this country don't know how to handle themselves in a nice, adult setting. They go to a French restaurant and then won't try anything "foreign" on the menu, they talk on their cell phone at the table, they annoy other diners by laughing loudly and drunkingly with their group of friends, they go to the theatre when they've got a terrible cough, etc. They likely were never taught how to behave in a grown-up setting, and so I'm in favor of teaching children when they are just babes. As long as one can be truthful with him/herself with regard to what the child is ready for, and is willing to remove the child from the situation when it becomes inappropriate.

As a mother of two young children (4 and 2-going-on-20), I can say with certainty that children should be left at home if you're going to an upscale restaurant. If I'm in one, it's because I want a night away from snotty noses and Yo Gabba Gabba reruns. Your toddler or preschooler throwing silverware on the ground or screaming because she doesn't like peas is going to ruin that for me.

Now, as far as fine-r dining that's not considered "upscale": If your child can behave themselves, sure, bring them along. If they can't- again, leave them at home. My son can sit in just about any nice restaurant and behave himself. I make sure to have his food delivered first (typically with our appetizer) so that he is occupied throughout the remainder of the evening. My daughter, however, is simply a nightmare and we can't take her anywhere (haven't been able to since she was an infant). They are both raised the same way as far as public behavior is concerned, but they are like night and day in terms of personality. Sometimes you just can't do anything about it but leave the kid at home.

We got "Do you need to go to the ladies' room?" That meant something less-than-pleasant was on the way, and we straightened up immediately. People couldn't believe that my parents would bring their 6-year-old into a French restaurant. At the end of the night though, they almost always complimented my parents on how well-behaved we were.

Agreed. But the commenters are saying stuff like "I want to take my child to a GOOD restaurant, not JUNK FOOD like you want to force them to eat at McDonald's!!" It's kind of a ridiculous argument when they get there and just order a more upscale version of McNuggets. Expensive certainly does not = healthy.

If you can afford to drop $32 on spaghetti with butter or tomato sauce for your toddler, you can afford a babysitter. So, get a babysitter, go enjoy a nice adult-only meal, and let your fellow diners do the same.

Small children do not belong at upscale restaurants. Period.

Maybe it's a little unrealistic to expect babies not to cry on flights but that doesn't mean I can't still be annoyed by it. I would totally book an adults-only flight if there was an option. I understand that they're not happy but neither are the people who have to listen to them. I don't blame the parents for it though, I just wish there was a way to get them to be quiet.
And it's not over-the-top to expect a kid to not kick my seat. Sorry that's just poor parenting if they don't tell their kid to stop. I do happen to enjoy flying, I like the environment. Call me crazy but I really do.

I have a 4 year old, and 2 year old. both of them are very well behaved 90% of the time. But like all people, they both have their bad days. I can and do take them out to eat at normal, family friendly restaurants. i have taken them out to nicer family friendly restaurants, and they have done fine. we practice exactly what PeppyGPhiB said: MANNERS. My kids get in BIG trouble if they do not say please, thank you, and you're welcome on a regular basis. even my 2 year old son (who is being evaluated for speech therapy tomorrow) knows how to say please an thank you, without being prompted. however, his speech issues also lead to a lot of frustrating tantrums when he cannot communicate what he wants or needs. which means, until that issue is resolved, we'll stick to applebees.

now... right before christmas this past year, my husband and i went out to a very nice Jeff Ruby's restaurant as a surprise. very close tables, very intimate. naturally, the party of 4 seated less than 2 feet away from us was a family of 4, the two kids were probably 6 and 4. they were VERY well behaved. but i still did not feel comfortable, because i felt like i couldnt have a regular adult conversation. i still felt in mommy mode.