Greece! Out of Control Due to Socialism
 

Depression 2010?

The crisis in Greece is starting to revive eerie memories of the 1920s.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/237488?gt1=43002

As Greeks, we must know and care about what's going on in Greece.

<----is expecting an influx of trolls who use multiple duplicate threads to rally the Greeks of the world


*sigh* I'll give thoughts later, when I'm not so tired.

My husband is Greek. His father's family lived off of his grandfather's salary after his early death because the government just keeps paying federal workers even after they die. Worse than that, though, it is a national pastime to evade taxes. Last year they prosecuted 4 people for not paying taxes! 4! That is ridiculous! I really don't care if they want to run a socialist society, but their major problem is that no one actually pays what they owe to their government to support their system.

In a Socialist society, what incentive is there to earn money? Not when basic/most services will be provided for you anyway. Many in Greece do not pay any taxes and the retirement age until this year was as low as 50. What is happening there is just a little taste of what will happen in other countries. Spain and Portugal may be next followed by the U.K. and France then the U.S. The dominoes will fall. This is why many of us did not want the Health Care Bill. We can't afford it.

You make some big leaps of assumption with this post. Greece's unemployment rate (current and historical) is here: http://www.indexmundi.com/greece/unemployment_rate.html It has ups and downs, but you certainly cannot say that people are not working there. It seems like, as AOII Angel pointed out, they do not have strict enough enforcement.

The health care bill has nothing to do with being motivated to work or not. 4 out of 5 people without health insurance are currently employed. Do you really think people in the US will stop working because they have health insurance? Health insurance doesn't pay your mortgage, your car payment, your utilities or buy groceries or put your kids through college. If anything, national health care would stimulate small business growth. The ONLY reason that I have not started my own business is that I cannot get health care if I do. I could make a lot more money doing that than I make now. If not for the health care bill, I would be stuck forever working only for big conglomerations who can afford to give me health insurance (the health insurance they choose for me, I might add). The health plan in it's original form would give me choices and options that I don't have now. It encourages a more capitalistic implementation of health care than we have now because it would spawn competition as the consumers (patients) would be able to choose any plan they wanted from any insurer that they wanted that covered whichever health system they wanted to use. I cannot understand why everybody calls that "socialized" medicine because currently, you are bound to what your employer is willing to give you and you cannot do anything about it.

That's the whole problem with the anti-socialism block in this country. The spread all of this BS propaganda about how people in socialist countries just sit around living on the government when in reality, they work, pay more in taxes so they can get more in benefits. It's not evil; it's just different. The problem with Greece is the breakdown in the pay taxes part :D !

I'm so annoyed that this turned into a health care thread. There is enough of that shit to wade through on Facebook.

Amen.

You missed the point. I will repeat: We can't afford all these social programs. The problems with Greece are but a microcosm of what may happen here. The vast majority of all taxes in the U.S. are paid by the top 40% of the earners. As taxes go up on these earners incentives to earn diminish. There is an inherent disincentive to earn in Socialist systems. References to France with high unemployment even with mandatory 35 hour weeks. Did I read that there is substantial underemployment in Greece that is not counted in the chart you referenced? I question whether Socialist systems can be self sustaining.

Employers are already talking about and planning to opt out of their current health care programs and let the Govt. handle it. It will be cheaper for the companies to do so. Hence the path to socialized medicine and possible rationing.

Blah blah blah blah blah...it's already done. Get over it! I'm in the top 1% of wage earners and pay the most taxes, and I have!

All of this is Obama's fault.

What you aren't getting Ghostwriter is that NOBODY here has said that socialism is good and we should move to that. We are nowhere NEAR socialism in this country and we aren't going to be. The current President doesn't want us to be, the current Congress and Senate don't want us to be and most of us liberals DO NOT WANT THE US TO BE A SOCIALIST COUNTRY. I'm sick and tired of hearing people saying that is what us evil liberals are trying to do because NOBODY is doing that. Did you go to our evil socialist public schools? Do you drive on our evil socialist public Interstates? Some things NEED to be standardized nationwide and funded through national channels. That is a far cry from socialism. Stop acting like we're some crazy extremists who want to overhaul the entire US economic system because we aren't.

Please tell me you live in South Florida. I need some dems/liberals near me. We are few and far between here.

I didn't call anyone out I just gave my opinion. I disagree with you about how near we are to Socialism and what our leadership in this country wants. I believe they want as much centralized authority as possible and they are doing all they can to get it while they can.

There are some things that our Government needs to and must do. Provide for our defense, interstate road system, regulate interstate commerce among a few other things. The rest is better provided by states and/or local Governments. This includes education, health care, state roads, etc. If a state such as Mass. wants their own Health Care system, more power to them. I have no problems with what states do for what they perceive as their own common good.

We are a blend of capitalism and socialism. We were never pure capitalism and have always had socialist leanings (even when labeled as something other than socialism).

Anyway, how you like dem Greeks? Depression 2010 or what?

Not that I'm agreeing with you about "they" wanting "as much centralized authority as possible," but "centralized authority" =/= socialism.

So do I understand you to mean that federal socialism is bad, but state socialism is okay?

The point here is that "socialism," like "fascism," gets tossed around so much that it's becoming pretty meaningless.

I think they're crazy! The riots, three people dead, all the anger. At some point, their population has got to see what their government does...it's the austerity plan or destruction of their country. I did find the discussions between Greece and EU comical. Germany: "You should sell one of you islands!" Greece: "Uh...you still owe us from all that sh*t in WWII!"

Exactly.

BTW, the title of this thread was tongue-in-cheek and (if I recall) happened because I was watching the O'Reilly Factor (love it).

Yes it is okay for a state to be more "Socialist". If their citizens vote for that then by all means have at it and see how well it works. California is a great example. Out of money and heading for bankruptcy. I would not agree to the rest of the states/country/Feds bailing them out if and when they fail.

I believe that all power not ennumerated to the Federal Government by our constitution should revert to the States. If a state decides it is in their best interest to "socialize" areas within their power then that is acceptable to me. If I feel it necessary, I can always move my residency to a state that is more in line with what I believe.

Thank you :)

But it WOULD happen. We are the United States of America. You think we're really going to let California falter? Look at the EU and Greece...it's the same thing. They couldn't let Greece fall apart for the same reason we wouldn't be able to let California fall apart.

And, I would think if our most populous state failed, the rest of us would fall like dominoes.

States' rights freaks have such a weird fascination with their own state surviving like a roach after the nuclear holocaust. Uh...it's not going to happen. Every state is too entangled to survive without the others.

I call BS on this. Not true. Where did you get that idea? Unless they are holding muni or state bonds fpr bankrupt states there is little bleed over. There may be a ripple in the pipeline of products from these states but there are others who will fill the void.

The states that spend themselves into oblivion and then cry poor mouth get no sympathy from me. Try cutting the spending. It can be done.

Really... So You really think North Carolina would survive by itself? I don't think so. States rely HEAVILY on the federal government.

And that is because of the way our society/country has devolved. The Federal government has gotten out of hand, something the framers of the Constitution hoped to avoid by limiting what the Federal government SHOULD be allowed to do and giving more autonomy to the individual States. What is good for the people of California, Georgia, Maine, etc is not necessarily what is the best for Wisconsin, Wyoming, Tennessee, etc.

I like the Constitution the way it was written - with limited Federal government. It is a shame that most politicians don't feel that way. I'm also REALLY happy (as a side note) that my Congressman, Dave Obey, is NOT running for his 22nd term!

But that all changed after the civil war, and the question of whether we were just a loose federation of states or a true union was answered. I'm not arguing philosophical questions here but reality.

There are about 3 different topics going on here:

1. No state is an island. We are the United States for a reason. You are sadly mistaken if you think what happens in one state has absolutely no impact at the Federal and state levels.
2. What works for Wisconsin does not necessarily work for Maine and that's why states have a level of autonomy.
3. How you like dem Greeks?!

How many times are you going to have to ask #3? Nobody seems to want to talk about it! :)

Hawai'i is an island. Several, in fact. If Puerto Rico joins they'll be an island state.

And let's not forget about Rhode Island. (just kidding)

I will answer #3. Greek men are usually really hot.

Why has that never come to my attention before?? Why in the world is it named Rhode Island?????

Except you and me. LOL. I forgot what my damn thread was about.

I'm sure they are also a brainwashed population. Government comes with a level of brainwashing. Some argue that socialism is a higher level of brainwashing than other forms of government.

Then again, they've been getting free money from the government for generations (which isn't technically socialism since they aren't paying into the system)...why would you want to stop?

Protests and parades against the government or some other cause are a regular occurance in Greece. When I was there a few years ago and at the parliament building, a protest walked right past us, in fact. We asked some locals what their signs said, and it turns out they were protesting the government's involvement in Iraq (we recognized "America" on a few of the signs, so figured as much).

The Greek culture is so laid back that it would seem disorganized to many in our country. So it doesn't surprise me that they apparently weren't taking things like taxes and spending seriously. After all, they got away with it all this time, and yet they still were brought into the Euro.

Oh, and I agree with pp that generally Greek men are hot. So are the women. They're really beautiful people.

My old landlord is Greek. He's about 35 and smoking hot. His wife hated the fact that there were about 5 20-something young girls who lived in the building. She was super-nice to my ex, but to me and the girls who lived there? Nope!

RE: Rhode Island, the official name of the state is "The State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantations." Rhode Island was the Anglican name for Aquidneck Island, where Newport is. Providence Plantations refers to the mainland, where there were no actual slavey plantations. It's a crazy state, but I spent 4 of the best years of my life there.

That sounds awesome. I want to go there. Where is Quahog? Ehehehehheheh. That was my Peter Griffin laugh.