House approves bill to let Puerto Ricans vote to become 51st state
 

...but still no statehood (or referendum) for DC.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...pid=sec-nation


By Jim Abrams
Friday, April 30, 2010

The House on Thursday approved legislation that could set in motion changes in Puerto Rico's 112-year relationship with the United States, including a transition to statehood or independence.
The House bill would give the 4 million residents of the island commonwealth a two-step path to expressing how they envision their political future. It passed 223 to 169 and now must be considered by the Senate.
Initially, eligible voters, including those born in Puerto Rico but residing in the United States, would vote on whether they wish to keep their current political status or opt for a different direction.


They've tried a couple of times before (at least in 1993 and 1998), and each time it has been turned down. I wonder how it will fare this time.

Wow I need to start paying attention to the news.

I wonder if my parents are eligible to vote since they own a house there lol

This

"Porto Rico ain't no 'merica!" I still remember hearing this the same day I got back from my first trip to Puerto Rico. We went to Target in Shreveport, LA, to buy some exercise equipment. Back in the bowels of the Target, we overheard a father and son talking about Puerto Rico...

Son: "Puerto Ricans are Americans."
Father: "I've been to Porto Rico. Porto Rico ain't no 'merica!"

We giggled to ourselves and wondered if he'd actually ever been to "Porto Rico." It's amazing that people don't know that Puerto Rico is part of the United States. (Of course, I've heard stories of physicians from New Mexico being asked for their visa status when applying for fellowship programs!) I'm not sure if they'll want to become a state, though.

I always wonder what they're gonna do about the flag.... Squeeze another star in somewhere?

Last time, they had a school kid design the flag. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=106228362

I had no idea how close past votes were (shame on me for not looking into it). According to that article, 50% said "none of the above" while 46.5% wanted statehood and only 2.5% wanted independence. I didn't think there were that few people that wanted independence. I guess my perception of that was skewed by a few of dad's uncles who are very much in favor of independence, ha

Anywho, I think having more options is going to change some outcomes...should be interesting to see!

I'm hearing West Side Story:

Immigrant goes to America,
Many hellos in America.
Nobody knows in America
Puerto Rico's in America

Most likely version:

http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/u/us-51st.gif

A version used by the New Progressive Party of Puerto Rico:

http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/images/u/us-51sta.gif

Yeah, I'm close friends with a fellow physician from Puerto Rico. I've visited his family twice on the island. They don't think that it would ever pass, and as my friend would say, "That's stupid!" Then again, my perception also may be skewed by them. That being said, there are lots of cars with Puerto Rican flag stickers on the back which is supposedly the symbol of non-statehood.

BTW, if you've noticed the little family stickers on the backs of cars with stick figures representing each member of the family including the dog? Those started in Puerto Rico at least 8 years ago.

/continuing hijack

OMG YES!!! My family and I go almost annually (although my parents go a lot more often) and I remember one trip when we started noticing them everywhere...and I mean EVERYWHERE. We were kinda confused about them first, and were curious as to why it was such a big trend. It's funny to see them here now...

PMing you...

I know! When I first saw, them, I SMH and laughed! Copying the Puerto Ricans! BTW, didn't know you were Puerto Rican! I love me some tostones (fresh homemade ones, not the nasty ones you get in a restaurant!) and this beef steak and onion recipe my friend's mom made for us with beans and rice. It's a Puerto Rican specialty so I know you will know what I'm talking about :)

My bet is that it will be voted down again because the Puerto Ricans are smart enough to know that they don't want to start paying income taxes to the Federal Govt. This comes up every 8-10 years and it is always the same with 52-53% voting against statehood. What would we bring to the table for the people of PR that would be value added?

Yep, I'm half (from my dad's side).

Tostones are among my favorites of Puerto Rican food. I also love arroz con habichuelas or arroz con gandules, and pasteles. (Basically two different types of rice and beans, and then something that I would describe as a Puerto Rican version of a tamale.)

I was so excited when BF came to PR with us, I really wanted him to try the food. He thought it was bland. :mad: I think he was expecting it to be really spicy or something??

ETA: Sorry for the continuing hijack!!

Residents of PR already pay federal taxes (FICA, but not federal income taxes). They ARE considered US citizens, and natural born citizens CAN be president (provided they meet all other criteria). I don't believe that PR has Congressional representation on the federal level, but can serve in appointed roles in the federal government. If they allowed the Commonwealth to become a state, the rights (to vote, etc.) would become inherent.

Something I wonder, though, is whether "Puerto Rican" considered an ethnicity or a nationality? There is an indigenous Native American tribe who also populated other islands (DR, Cuba, Haiti). Spaniards came in the 1700s and married into the tribes, then later brought slaves from Africa. Immigrants from China, Italy, France, Germany and Lebonon arrived as well. Americans also came over in numbers around the turn of the 20th century. Though Spain lost control of the area, Spaniards continued to move there. In the 1960s, an influx of Cuban refugees arrived, and more recently, people from the DR.

Spanish is the most commonly spoken language in PR. Despite the number of different ancestral roots of its residents - European, African, Asian, Native American, many people consider Puerto Rican people as "Hispanic". How accurate is that? Is it simply because of language? Spain - a European country - isn't "Latin American".

----

As for residents of DC, I have tried to understand the issues, but I can't quite grasp the constitutional barriers to statehood and/or residential representation and voting rights. The case of "taxation without representation" is valid here. If anyone can shed some light on that for me, it would be great. Of all the reading I have done, I just am not grasping the reasons against statehood or voting rights.

They have non-voting delegates, like DC.

Article I, section 8, of the Constitution authorizes Congress "To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States." So under the Constitution, DC isn't a state, and therefore it has none of the rights of a state. The Constitution only provides states and state's residents with the ability to elect members of Congress.

The 23rd Amendment allows residents of DC to vote for President and Vice-President, but they cannot elect more electors to the Electoral College than the least populated state, even if by population they could send more electors if DC was a state.

Well lets see if this measure even gets pass the Senate. And the referendemes have also been nonofficial ones organized by the government of the Commonwealth.

It just seems kind of shitty to me that we just fought a losing battle for trying to get DC statehood, and now about a week later, the House is like, Hey, Puerto Rico! Wanna join us?

We never got that opportunity. I'd like to see what the numbers would be if DC residents had a vote as to whether or not to become a state.

It won't.

It's considered both.


"Hispanic" to describe people of Spanish-speaking countries in and of itself is inaccurate. It would be more accurate to consider people from Spain "hispanics" because those are the people the word originally was designated for.

Spain is really an anomaly when it comes to designating "hispanics" or "latinos" even considering it a "Latin American" country. They have their heads so far up their own asses that it's just better to leave them out. They think themselves FAR superior than any other Spanish-speaking country.

Puerto Rico
 

The approval of this bill will change nothing.

Things to consider:

* The bill will probably not pass in the Senate. If it does, then…

* The bill was introduced by the non-voting delegate from PR in Congress. He is a member of the statehood party, which has never won a referendum on the island. So, he decides to create an artificial majority. None of the alternative groups has 50+, but the largest group is the one that wants status quo (47%-48%). In this bill, a first referendum would create an all-against-status-quo group which will surely win. In the second referendum, the statehood option is the largest group and will likely win, since the Independence group is small, and the status quo gets divided into two groups: Associated Sovereignty or Status quo (due to internal problems of this option). Result: Statehood will win second referendum. What will happen?

* There are 4.1 million Puerto Ricans stateside (which I won´t include for the count) and 4 million Puerto Ricans on island. If PR were to become a state, with a population larger than 23 states, it would have 7 Congress delegates. These 23 state will lose voting power. Before I forget, that is 4 million inhabitants, out of which only 30% speak English.

If statehood wins, it´ll go back to Congress, and because of what was said in the previous paragraph, it will probably won´t pass.

In addition,

* The expression "Puerto belongs to, but it is not part of the USA" summarizes the US govt position regarding the island. Puerto Rico status, as per recent federal court decisions, is the same as Guantanamo Bay.

* Puerto Rico is a unicorporated territory of the USA. This means that when Puerto Rico was acquired by the US in 1898, its status was that of non incorporation. Unlike Hawaii and Alaska, which were incorporated territories and went on to become states, that option has never being in the table for Puerto Rico since day one. Non-incorporation is a territory not on path to statehood.

* If PR were to become a state, the new state would have a 45.4% (2006 U.S. Census) of the population below poverty levels, 15.3% (2009) unemployment, $3.3 billion government deficit. With the amount of capital that the US would have to invest on the island, I don´t think this would pass Congress.

* Not to add the monopoly and monopsony that the US industry has in PR, and this would create a large lobbying move against statehood.

Because of these, I don´t think anything will change, although some things should change as today´s Puerto Rico being ruled by a President and a Congress for which Puerto Ricans have no vote is as undemocratic as it goes.

I see Spanish (from Spain) artists on the Latino Billboard/Premios/Awards Shows/etc...so they're at least not shy about lumping themselves in with Latin Music.

Why would you consider the use of "Hispanic" for people of Spanish speaking countries inaccurate?

If you want to go right to the root of these designations, Latino could describe someone Mexican, Brazilian, or even Italian and Portuguese, because it means someone who speaks a Latin-based language. I know someone will probably argue with that, but I don't see anything wrong with calling a spade a spade.

Meanwhile, I had no idea WTF to put for my husband on the census. There was a question about being "Hispanic", but then the next question was about race, and it said that Hispanic was an ethnicity not a race (you can't tell them that, though - iLa Raza!). I finally ended up settling on "Native American - Zapoteca". I looked it up later, and technically, that's not off-base, because he's a Mesoamericano - which are people indigenous to middle Mexico-Central America, and are therefore Native Americans (even if they're not Native (NORTH) Americans.

Because of what you said next:

Most of us prefer you call us by out ethnicity (Mexican, Cuban, etc) but if you don't know it, "Latino/a" would be more accurate, and more accepted, than Hispanic. I personally hate being called 'Hispanic.'


Is Mexican (I know you mentioned Zapotec, but I know they can go down through several countries). That's strange that the census didn't have that option--mine did. I put Mexican, or Mexican-American, under ethnicity and 'white' under race (i believe).

I think that might be kind of like the Black/African American debate - some prefer one, some prefer the other. Some have a STRONG preference, and others it doesn't mater as much. I hardly ever hear my husband call himself Latino - he usually calls himself "Hispano". He wouldn't be offended, though, if someone called him Latino. He would only be offended if someone called him "gringo".;)



Yes - I marked Mexican - I was talking about the race...are Hispanics/Latinos/Mexicans really considered Caucasian? I would also probably throw in there that my husband is 100% indigenous, and his skin looks more like Sammy Sosa (BEFORE he went all Micheal Jackson with the white-boy drugs) or India Maria than Cameron Diaz or Edith Gonzalez.

Yes, they are considered Caucasian. Back in my day, they taught us there were three races... Caucasoid, Negroid and Mongoloid. That was what every school child learned.

Funny you should mention that. My grandfather was considered Black.

Considering the DC license plate says, "Taxation Without Representation," I'm sure DC residents would be thrilled to become a state.

Me too, MOST DEFINITELY!! I guess your husband more so, since he doesn't look 'gringo' at all. Yeah the whole Latino/Hispanic debaucle is very similar to the Black/African-American thing, and it really is about preference. On the one hand, I don't like being called "Hispanic," but on the other it doesn't really bother me enough to correct people. Latino & Hispanic are interchangeable, so its not really worth getting upset or defensive over.


I believe so. I know that I am more Caucasian than I am black. But my mom is very similar to your husband (in skin tone) and I remember on my BC, they labeled her as "white."

Slight hijack: What does gringo mean? Does it mean simply "outsider" or does it mean specifically white anglo?

Wiki's Answer

I've really only heard my husband use it in regards to white people, but Wiki says Mexicans use it for any US Citizen.

My dad said there was an old Army story about the Mexican-American war where the American armies were wearing green uniforms, and the officers would send them into battle by yelling "Green Go!", but I think that's just a story. It's similar to one of the Wiki proposed etymologies, but not the same.

We actually get the choice to have "Taxation Without Representation" on our license plates. It is the default, but those who are against it can choose to have "A Capital City" on their plates, and while I don't see many of them, they are around.

Aside from repealing the 23rd constitutional amendment, what others also argue is that the new state that would be created would also have to take on the responsibility of policing/guarding all of the embassies and figuring out what to do with the federal areas, such as the Capitol Building, the White House, and even places like the memorials on the Mall. DC gets about $600,000,000 per year from the federal government because it hosts a lot of these things (even though we do have the highest federal tax rate per capita). We wouldn't get that money if we were to become a state. States that border us (MD and VA) tend to not support our creation of a state because they would lose money due to commuter taxes. The federal government part of the state would be impacted by the state's interference in certain issues (simply by way of physicality) and also DC's dependence on it, as we are a town that thrives on government work. The framers of the constitution envisioned a seat of government, and DC is quite small in the scheme of other "big" cities.

So, I guess that's some of the arguments that people around here can make.

More of the white anglo part than the outsider.

Usually when someone says 'gringo' they mean it in a more derogatory way. And we use it for people who *usually* are non-Spanish speaking white people.

A more affectionate term that could be used is 'guero' which doesn't always necessarily mean "blonde."

Puerto Rico
 

Very interesting - I would speculate that this won't get passed the Senate. I had the pleasure in visiting the "El Conquistador" Resort about a year ago in Fajardo and had a really good time. Everything was a little bit on the pricey side but worth it. They have a really good light beer there that you can't get in the US. If this thing does pass the Senate I wonder if any of these types of goods will be better facilitated to get over to the US. Anyway, the beer is called "Medalla Light". It is sort of like a Corona or Land Shark beer but better. It definitely tastes great in that Tropical heat by the Caribbean. If you're ever down there and want more Medalla for your buck I would highly suggest taking a rental car and head out to "El Yunque" for a day. El Yunque is a natural Tropical Rain forest out there. You'll have a blast and if you take your spouse or significant other there is a natural waterfall at the foot of the mountain that you can hike to and get that "Token" snapshot. Anyway, on the way you'll come across a little Puerto Rican convenient store near a little neighborhood. There's no AC in there but they do keep their beers refrigerated. You'll be able to get a 12 pack for the price of 1 back at your resort or hotel. Of course there is a plethora of Rums in PR. That should be obvious for any fan of the Captain or Bacardi. We'll see what happens here. I imagine that accepting Spanish as a second official language would stir up some folks opinions and legacies. As long as they are getting Federally taxed like the rest of us I have no problem with it.

Cheers,

Boodleboy322

The thing with that is the United States as a whole does not have an official language.

True, but it's always interesting for the proposition to become "New Columbia" to pop up in Congress every few years. These people at least have to get a representative.

Thanks! I've been called "gringo" but not 'guero'.

Woooooow. That was neat. :)
This made me laugh a little, but I totally understand. I don't think this will get past the Senate either, but it'd be interesting if it did. I still feel like Alaska and Hawaii aren't widely accepted as states in most people's minds. Like people from Colorado are more likely to be called "Americans" than people from Hawaii. They're usually called "Hawaiians." If PR is added to the mix, I think it'll be the same.

I didn't realize the term "Hispanic" offends some people until I saw a debate about it in a movie. It kinda made me realize how much in this world can offend or be "not okay" with people that I just don't realize.

Just saw this. OMG that is so freaking good.

I completely agree. Hell, up until the 60s, we couldn't even vote for the President! (I say "we" as if I was alive in the 60s and lived here then... haha! :o)

Ha! I want to go back to PR now! I could also use a fresh mallorca from La Bombonera in Old San Juan (they cut them open and fill them with butter and serve them warm!) or a Brazo di gitano!

I've been called guero but never a gringo, which is good because I'm sure I'd get a little hot under the collar if that happened.

And don't get me started on the practice of referring to everyone with white skin Anglo. Maybe I'm wrong but if you're not from what's now northern France and the U.K. you aren't Anglo.