Teacher suspended for facebook slam against student
 

Apex teacher suspended after parents question Facebook comments

Posted: Feb. 15, 2010

APEX, N.C. — An eighth-grade teacher at West Lake Middle School in Apex has been suspended for five days with pay pending an investigation, Wake County school officials said Monday.

School district spokesman Greg Thomas would not go into details over Melissa Hussain’s suspension due to employee confidentiality obligations, but a parent said the concern started as the class was learning about evolution and some students challenged the teacher on Christian beliefs.

Following the evolution discussion, Hussain wrote on her Facebook page that a student left a Bible on her desk with a card that read Merry Christmas with “Christ” underlined, the parent told WRAL News Monday afternoon.

Facebook is a social networking Web site that allows users to create profiles and participate in online discussions with “friends.”

Hussain wrote that the gesture was cruel and called it a “hate crime,” the parent said.

The parent said Hussain then wrote, “I have a meeting with the (possible) Bible boy on Monday … Heaven help him, I am still so mad at that child!”
Parents complained to school officials about the comments last week.

http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/7041186/

Well I guess it goes both ways. I think that despite all the different opinions, we can agree on one thing...

Set your page to private.

I got a better one.

Keep it to yourself.

Why are teachers friending students' parents? That's just asking for trouble.

I'm still on the fence about the student suspension, but I honestly don't see any issue with what this teacher wrote.

I guess folks are just too damn sensitive.

Daemonseid, you win on that one.

When I was in high school, I had a lot of teachers try to friend me. I personally found it creepy and ignored them.

I'm friends with one of my kids' teachers. She happens to be a friend outside of being the music teacher for the district. Teachers and parents are sometimes friends. Teachers don't immediately stop being friends with people just because they got a job in a district where they know some of the kids parents.

Teachers are people too. They have friends.

My friend's mom is a teacher and she refuses to live in the district where she teaches so she won't run into students or parents of students. Then again, she also doesn't have a facebook.

So like, if her college roommate moved to the town where she teaches, would she stop being friends with her because she had a kid in the district? This seems really weird to me.

Nah, she just really likes her work life and personal life to be separate.

I realize that teachers are real people lol

If they were friends before, a phone call, e-mail, or message on Facebook could have squashed this "issue."

Online friendships between adults, yes, but between a teacher and a student? It's not the age difference that bugs me (I have two teen nieces on my FB), but the fact that the teacher is an authority figure. I just don't think that the two should be on an even playing field like FB. Of course, said teacher can set certain settings to private and such, but unless the teacher and the student were already "friends" (as in your case, AGDee), I think that the potential for miscommunication, accusations of nepotism, and just the blurring of boundaries increases.

Ah, nepotism from teachers. We only had one drama teacher in my high school and her daughter was in the same grade as me. Besides the obvious issue when her daughter auditioned for plays, this teacher also had the "BFF with my kid" mothering style. She tried to facebook friend all her daughter's facebook friends, arrange shopping trips with us, etc. It put all of us in a really awkward position and was not appreciated.

Where I live, all the teachers live in the district. They are all neighbors and friends with the parents. It can be tricky, but we seem to manage.

We also don't post private thoughts on a public forum. But, since it seems that it is kind of Peyton Placey, all the gossip gets out anyway, no need for facebook.

This is so funny, but so often true. Of course, in my community not all the gossip is grounded in reality, but when is it ever?

I think it's dumb for anyone to do a whole lot of specific work related complaining on facebook if you have even one facebook friend tied to your workplace or if you have your settings public enough that anyone at work could read it.

If the teacher didn't name the kid and was just venting in code to people who for the most part wouldn't have known who the kid was about her offensive Christmas gifts and gave the context of why she got the gift, I think it was kind of stupid but not something worth serious professional repercussions.

If the teacher in question was actually trying to get the school to treat the event like a "hate crime" or to get the school to treat it officially like a discipline issue, then talking about it on facebook takes it to a different level in my opinion because you are chatting with your friends about something that the school is going to expect you to handle very professionally.

Teachers have private lives and should be given the same social leeway to complain about work that other people are, in my opinion. But just as you wouldn't expect your doctor to vent about how disgusting your medical procedure was or your lawyer to talk about the specifics of the causes of your divorce, mentioning you by name or identifiable characteristics to people who know you, teachers probably shouldn't complain about specific kids to people who know the kids.

I think most states have clear cut professional standards about information learned in the context of your professional role as a teacher and the students' and parents' expectation of confidentiality. But I don't know that a public class discussion and a Christmas gift left on a desk in plain view are things that fall under an expectation of confidentiality. You're kind of an idiot to complain on facebook about the gifts you got and how offended you are, but I'm not sure that it's a breach of professional standards. I guess we'll see.

It was a Christmas card and a Bible. It's not that serious. I don't see how the teacher let a child upset her that much. It's one thing to express anger or offense with a student. We all vent about our jobs--in fact, we do it on here all the time. But publicly accusing a student of committing a hate crime? That's over the line. I can't really say she deserved a 5-day suspension because I didn't see the actual comment, but sounds like she did more than some harmless venting.

Meh....I don't think it's worth a 5-day suspension, not to mention we don't really know the back story. For all we know, she is a practicing Muslim and this was a hostile act. It doesn't really sound like something a child would do, but more like something a parent would make their child do.

I was going to say, if the teacher is Muslim, then yes, I would consider this a hate crime. But as far as not thinking the kid would do it on his own...you need to rent Jesus Camp. LOL.

Have to say though, the "heaven help him" makes me chuckle. It's like a variant of "bless your heart."

What would be the criminal act?

I think her point was that it the gift of the Bible may have been intended as religious harassment, not that giving someone a religious text ought to be considered harassment on its own or that it's in any way a crime.

I agree. I think calling it a hate crime was over stating it quite a bit, but certainly doesn't rise to the level of cause to suspend her.

threat of violence, depending on the context, issue over believes, etc. Although it is quite clearly harassment, and that's a crime (usually), and crimes are usually based on hate.

A person is guilty of harassment in the first degree when he or she intentionally and repeatedly harasses another person by following such person in or about a public place or places or by engaging in a course of conduct or by repeatedly committing acts which places such person in reasonable fear of physical injury. ~http://definitions.uslegal.com/h/harassment/

This may be a stupid question, but is harassment defined as such if it's a one-time incident? According to the site above, the answer seems to be "no," but I'm not law-savvy.

That kind of sounds like it would vary by state, but I am not an attorney.

But where is the threat of violence? There isn't one.

You may not be an attorney, but you are right that it would vary by state. In North Carolina, where this incident took place, a "hate crime" requires an assualt or damage to or defacement of property (or an actual threat of assault or damage to or defacement of property). And even if there were such a thing as simple "criminal harrassment" in North Carolina (there's really not -- there are crimes for harassing behavior in specific circumstances, like sexual harassment or stalking), I can't imagine that what happened here -- a one-time event, apparently -- could possibly support criminal charges.

I think lots of people are confusing ideas like hate crimes and criminal harassment with concepts like civil actions for hostile work environment or the like.

Oh yeah, no. I never said I thought it was harassment, but I def. can see where a case could be made for it, if the prosecution was bored that day or whatever.

Then I guess I misunderstood what you meant when you said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by RU OX Alum (Post 1901176) Although it is quite clearly harassment, and that's a crime (usually), and crimes are usually based on hate.

;)
And my point was that a case for harassment can't be made, even if the proscutor is bored, at least not where the incident took place.

I was about to say--I went to HS with quite a few fundies who didn't need parental encouragement to do something like this.

I understand that your point is to make clear that no crime was committed in this case, and I accept that completely. I didn't actually mean to imply a crime had been committed when I speculated about what 33 might have meant.

What term do you think might be better to use to describe what the kid might have been trying to do if we assume that he wasn't simply motivated by purity of heart and the joy of spreading the Gospel?

I keep coming back to "harassment," not in the legal sense, but just because I think it's the word most of use would use, but it's lacking, especially because of the element of suggesting multiple events.

It appears that the teacher thought the kid had malicious intent in giving her that particular gift following their discussion about evolution. I suppose we could just say, proselytizing, but that doesn't make clear that he might have been doing it specifically because he had an audience he knew would be offended by his attempt.

Ah. I think it could be in VA. Or at least, it would go to civil trial. Or be settled. Whatever. I wonder if that is what she's thinking? It's def. a bad position for the school board/district though.

Oh I know. I was really responding more to RU OX Alum.

I think harassment (in the non-legal sense) may well be the right or best word.

FWIW - I never ask to "friend" a student or a student's parent on facebook. I do accept requests if they ask. I always make my posts keeping in mind that I don't want to write anything that anyone I know might find offensive. As always, it's best to bear in mind ANYTHING YOU POST IN A PUBLIC FORUM, EVEN IF YOU THINK IT'S PRIVATE, IS PUBLIC.

I have a problem student who I've discovered has been talking about how "bad" I am to the teacher I replaced on facebook. Not a smart move, brainiac. And I've had college students post they were going to Corpus Christi when they were supposed to be in class - again, um, not the smartest thing to do if you plan to plead illness for your absence.

I have an annual befriending bonaza right after graduation. I won't be a facebook friend to students while they are still in school, but I'll be a facebook friend once one graduates. And I'll even initiate the contact since I don't care that much about risking rejections and I try to have my privacy settings cranked way up to be hard to find.

This had considerably more novelty before facebooks became common in people my age. Now, becoming my facebook friend is about as cool as friending your mom.

(Not that it was ever really cool, but it's even less cool than it was a couple of years ago. )

You had teachers sending YOU requests??? That's a bit much!

I never requested my students, but I'd accept if they sent me one.
Last week, we had a situation where a kid was missing school and it was on her page and another students' why, and it upset me to know what was going on and why she was absent (to go to the other girl's pageant prep stuff), so I just deleted all my students!

seems like the school district isn't adhering to its standard of integrity or fairness.

her suspension probably had more to do with her friends' comments after her post.

Yet another instance of a school system getting upset over something insignificant while failing to adequately handle the problems and issues that are SIGNIFICANT.

Whether or not she should have said it, at some point people should be allowed to have "privacy" on Facebook. I say privacy in the sense that lines should be drawn when it comes to punishing people for what they write on these public forums.

And I agree that it was probably more about the comments under her post than anything else. What she wrote was harmless. And there was nothing illegal or unethical about it.