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-   Risk Management - Hazing & etc. (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/forumdisplay.php?f=30)
-   -   Hazing History (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=110981)

torr 02-03-2010 01:42 PM
Hazing History
 
Hello Everyone.

My name is tori, im a senior and currently doing my senior project on hazing. Im going against it for several reasons. I need some backround information on hazing back in the days. I cant seem to find any info but i read on here some where that it started back in WW2. Is there any more info out there that would help me with my Research Paper? I would kindly appriciate it. And please if you do find something or know something, please add a source.

Thanks again!

DrPhil 02-03-2010 01:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by torr (Post 1892405)
Hello Everyone.

My name is tori, im a senior and currently doing my senior project on hazing. Im going against it for several reasons. I need some backround information on hazing back in the days. I cant seem to find any info but i read on here some where that it started back in WW2. Is there any more info out there that would help me with my Research Paper? I would kindly appriciate it. And please if you do find something or know something, please add a source.

Thanks again!
(I'm really bothered by the errors in this post.)

Hello, Tori. There is a plethora of research accessible via scholarly search engines that your school has access to. Google also has a lot of information but tread lightly because anyone can create a website. If you find something on a website that is not an actual article, look for the citations and read the actual references.

33girl 02-03-2010 01:51 PM
Much of the information on hazing that you will find online is reactionary and very opinionated, lacking in facts. READ A BOOK.

DrPhil 02-03-2010 02:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 1892409)
READ A BOOK.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgcZN...eature=related

Psi U MC Vito 02-03-2010 02:10 PM
Wouldn't your library be a better source then a random website?

33girl 02-03-2010 02:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrPhil (Post 1892425)
They played this on the Soup last weekend and I LOLed.

agzg 02-03-2010 02:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrPhil (Post 1892425)
R-E-A-D-A-B-O-OKAYYYYYY!

Kevin 02-03-2010 02:55 PM
If you need a good lead, you might try talking to real people about their own hazing experiences. Everyone has organized alumni associations, so if what you're after is anecdotal stuff, one of these alumni associations could probably get you in touch with some of their more aged alumni.

MysticCat 02-03-2010 03:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by torr (Post 1892405)
I cant seem to find any info . . . .
Then I have to wonder how hard you're looking.

Quote:
but i read on here some where that it started back in WW2.
Just one example of why you shouldn't trust everything you read on a random website. You'll also read on here that Alpha Chi Omega's badge is on the moon and that all but 3 (maybe 4 now?) US Presidents since 1825 have been members of fraternities.

GreekChat is just full of inaccurate information.

DrPhil 02-03-2010 03:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticCat (Post 1892452)
GreekChat is just full of inaccurate information.
:eek: This is a peer reviewed and scholar refereed site where we cite and excite.

DaemonSeid 02-03-2010 03:29 PM
Hazing is bad.

The end.

ThetaPrincess24 02-03-2010 03:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by torr (Post 1892405)
Hello Everyone.

My name is tori, im a senior and currently doing my senior project on hazing. Im going against it for several reasons. I need some backround information on hazing back in the days. I cant seem to find any info but i read on here some where that it started back in WW2. Is there any more info out there that would help me with my Research Paper? I would kindly appriciate it. And please if you do find something or know something, please add a source.

Thanks again!
I believe roots of hazing go back atleast as far as Emperor Justinian of the Byzantine Empire. A librarian at a library will show you how to do research if you dont know how.

MysticCat 02-03-2010 04:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThetaPrincess24 (Post 1892474)
I believe roots of hazing go back atleast as far as Emperor Justinian of the Byzantine Empire.
I'll see your Justinian and raise you a few Spartans.

Meanwhile torr, Harvard expelled a student for hazing in 1657, which I think predates WWII. (See? A source for you.)

Psi U MC Vito 02-03-2010 04:11 PM
I think she is one of the many people who thinks hazing is a strictly fraternal happening.

DrPhil 02-03-2010 04:31 PM
THIS.IS.SPARTAAAAAAAA!!!!!!

Hazing has existed for as long as any kind of group relationships existed. However, we can probably only document back but so far. :)

agzg 02-03-2010 04:37 PM
LOL at the ad on this thread - Dating for Seniors!

naraht 02-03-2010 04:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticCat (Post 1892452)
Then I have to wonder how hard you're looking.

Just one example of why you shouldn't trust everything you read on a random website. You'll also read on here that Alpha Chi Omega's badge is on the moon and that all but 3 (maybe 4 now?) US Presidents since 1825 have been members of fraternities.

GreekChat is just full of inaccurate information.
For the US presidents, it *really* depends on how you count. Do you count Masons? Do you count receiving Honorary membership well after college (including as President) like Obama? Do you count Service Greeks like Clinton?


Randy

knight_shadow 02-03-2010 04:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by agzg (Post 1892491)
LOL at the ad on this thread - Dating for Seniors!
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3568/...705ab566_m.jpg

:D

Psi U MC Vito 02-03-2010 04:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by naraht (Post 1892500)
For the US presidents, it *really* depends on how you count. Do you count Masons? Do you count receiving Honorary membership well after college (including as President) like Obama? Do you count Service Greeks like Clinton?


Randy
Wait Obama is Greek? Since when? Also i don't see how it is possible for all but 4 presidents to have been Greek since 1825 since that is when the first fraternity was founded. ((Not counting Phi Beta Kappa)).

MysticCat 02-03-2010 05:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by naraht (Post 1892500)
For the US presidents, it *really* depends on how you count. Do you count Masons? Do you count receiving Honorary membership well after college (including as President) like Obama? Do you count Service Greeks like Clinton?
Oh, don't encourage anyone. :p

The claim is just plain wrong. (And I'm pretty sure that no one making the claim was thinking about Freemasonry; they're thinking about college fraternities.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito (Post 1892512)
Also i don't see how it is possible for all but 4 presidents to have been Greek since 1825 since that is when the first fraternity was founded. ((Not counting Phi Beta Kappa)).
That's because it's not possible -- hence my using it as an example of inaccurate information one can read on GC (or sadly on chapter websites and in chapter recruitment info).

Psi U MC Vito 02-03-2010 05:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticCat (Post 1892517)
Oh, don't encourage anyone. :p

The claim is just plain wrong. (And I'm pretty sure that no one making the claim was thinking about Freemasonry; they're thinking about college fraternities.)

That's because it's not possible -- hence my using it as an example of inaccurate information one can read on GC (or sadly on chapter websites and in chapter recruitment info).
ActuallyI googled it and I found a clarification that makes more sense. it says all but 4 presidents born since 1825 were Greek.

MysticCat 02-03-2010 05:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito (Post 1892518)
ActuallyI googled it and I found a clarification that makes more sense. it says all but 4 presidents born since 1825 were Greek.
That could be accurate, depending on whether non-social/general fraternities are included (and depending on whether Obama has been initiated by a fraternity).

Per The Center for the Study of the College Fraternity in Bloomington, Indiana:
The North-American Interfraternity Conference has also compiled a list of U.S. Presidents who were/are fraternity members. Contrary to the statistic quoted above ["All but two U.S. Presidents since 1825 have been fraternity men"], no president prior to 1877 was a fraternity member and seven presidents since then have not been fraternity men. Presidents who were fraternity members are:

President/Years in Office/Fraternity
Rutherford B. Hayes 1877-1881 Delta Kappa Epsilon
James Garfield 1881 Delta Upsilon
Chester Arthur 1881-1885 Psi Upsilon
Benjamin Harrison 1989-1893 Phi Delta Theta
William McKinley 1897-1901 Sigma Alpha Epsilon
Theodore Roosevelt 1901-1909 Delta Kappa Epsilon/Alpha Delta Phi
William Howard Taft 1909-1913 Psi Upsilon
Woodrow Wilson 1913-1921 Phi Kappa Psi
Calvin Coolidge 1923-1929 Phi Gamma Delta
Franklin D. Roosevelt 1933-1945 Alpha Delta Phi
Harry S. Truman 1945-1953 Lambda Chi Alpha
Dwight D. Eisenhower 1953-1961 Tau Epsilon Phi
John F. Kennedy 1961-1963 Phi Kappa Theta
Gerald R. Ford 1974-1977 Delta Kappa Epsilon
Ronald Reagan 1981-1989 Tau Kappa Epsilon
George H. W. Bush 1989-1993 Delta Kappa Epsilon
George W. Bush 2001- Delta Kappa Epsilon
That means that 7 presidents (not counting Obama) since 1877 were not social/general fraternity members, and all presidents since 1877, except for Rutherford B. Hayes, were born after 1825. If Warren G. Harding and Jimmy Carter (for Phi Alpha Delta) and Bill Clinton (for Alpha Phi Omega) are added, that does leave four (again, not counting Obama) who were not fraternity members.

It should also be noted that at least one president (Harry Truman) was an honorary initiate, not a collegiate. I leave to others how that should be counted.

KSUViolet06 02-03-2010 10:49 PM
Not a magazine!

Not the sports page!

naraht 02-03-2010 11:12 PM
Eisenhower also honorary.
 
Eisenhower was also an honorary brother (http://www.tau-epsilon-phi.com/EpsilonEta) and initiated in 1967

Truman was Honorary and initiated in 1945. (http://www.crossandcrescent.com/2006...-a-lambda-chi/)

Wonder how many others in the list were honorary.

Psi U MC Vito 02-03-2010 11:16 PM
Well I know Arthur and Taft were both actual brothers. Though IIRc one of them was also an acacia brother. I forget which. and the Acacia membership was honorary.

MysticCat 02-03-2010 11:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by naraht (Post 1892648)
Eisenhower was also an honorary brother (http://www.tau-epsilon-phi.com/EpsilonEta) and initiated in 1967.
I should have remembered that. He went to West Point.

VandalSquirrel 02-04-2010 12:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticCat (Post 1892522)
That could be accurate, depending on whether non-social/general fraternities are included (and depending on whether Obama has been initiated by a fraternity).

Per The Center for the Study of the College Fraternity in Bloomington, Indiana:
The North-American Interfraternity Conference has also compiled a list of U.S. Presidents who were/are fraternity members. Contrary to the statistic quoted above ["All but two U.S. Presidents since 1825 have been fraternity men"], no president prior to 1877 was a fraternity member and seven presidents since then have not been fraternity men. Presidents who were fraternity members are:

President/Years in Office/Fraternity
Rutherford B. Hayes 1877-1881 Delta Kappa Epsilon
James Garfield 1881 Delta Upsilon
Chester Arthur 1881-1885 Psi Upsilon
Benjamin Harrison 1989-1893 Phi Delta Theta
William McKinley 1897-1901 Sigma Alpha Epsilon
Theodore Roosevelt 1901-1909 Delta Kappa Epsilon/Alpha Delta Phi
William Howard Taft 1909-1913 Psi Upsilon
Woodrow Wilson 1913-1921 Phi Kappa Psi
Calvin Coolidge 1923-1929 Phi Gamma Delta
Franklin D. Roosevelt 1933-1945 Alpha Delta Phi
Harry S. Truman 1945-1953 Lambda Chi Alpha
Dwight D. Eisenhower 1953-1961 Tau Epsilon Phi
John F. Kennedy 1961-1963 Phi Kappa Theta
Gerald R. Ford 1974-1977 Delta Kappa Epsilon
Ronald Reagan 1981-1989 Tau Kappa Epsilon
George H. W. Bush 1989-1993 Delta Kappa Epsilon
George W. Bush 2001- Delta Kappa Epsilon
That means that 7 presidents (not counting Obama) since 1877 were not social/general fraternity members, and all presidents since 1877, except for Rutherford B. Hayes, were born after 1825. If Warren G. Harding and Jimmy Carter (for Phi Alpha Delta) and Bill Clinton (for Alpha Phi Omega) are added, that does leave four (again, not counting Obama) who were not fraternity members.

It should also be noted that at least one president (Harry Truman) was an honorary initiate, not a collegiate. I leave to others how that should be counted.
Clinton is also a member of Kappa Kappa Psi (so is Chuck Norris, LULZ!) and didn't Phi Beta Sigma vote to induct him last summer?

Psi U MC Vito 02-04-2010 12:57 AM
Clinton is also in Phi Alpha Delta

MysticCat 02-04-2010 10:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VandalSquirrel (Post 1892706)
Clinton is also a member of Kappa Kappa Psi
I knew that at one point. Thanks for the reminder.

Quote:
(so is Chuck Norris, LULZ!)
Now that I did not know. :D

Quote:
and didn't Phi Beta Sigma vote to induct him last summer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito (Post 1892708)
Clinton is also in Phi Alpha Delta
These I don't know about. Thanks.

Psi U MC Vito 02-04-2010 12:27 PM
So apparently Clinton is very Greek. That is what, four different orgs?

33girl 02-04-2010 12:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito (Post 1892797)
So apparently Clinton is very Greek. That is what, four different orgs?
He probably thought it meant he would get to go to four times the mixers.

That was too easy.:p

ADPiTigergurl 02-04-2010 12:40 PM
I love how this went from a train wreck to a Greek History lesson. :)

And yes, I'd say anyone with 4 orgs, should be considered very Greek.

naraht 02-04-2010 01:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito (Post 1892797)
So apparently Clinton is very Greek. That is what, four different orgs?
Some would say making up for lost time... :)

Seriously, Georgetown, where Clinton was an undergraduate had two active pledging greek letter organizations in the 1960s: Alpha Phi Omega and the Foreign Service Fraternity. He pledged and initiated into Alpha Phi Omega. Alpha Phi Omega is a service fraternity, but IMO, with no social greeks on campus, had a somewhat wider organizational niche than it might have at other schools.

Senusret can speak to this in even greater detail, he pledged Alpha Phi Omega at Georgetown.

Senusret I 02-04-2010 02:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by naraht (Post 1892820)
Some would say making up for lost time... :)

Seriously, Georgetown, where Clinton was an undergraduate had two active pledging greek letter organizations in the 1960s: Alpha Phi Omega and the Foreign Service Fraternity. He pledged and initiated into Alpha Phi Omega. Alpha Phi Omega is a service fraternity, but IMO, with no social greeks on campus, had a somewhat wider organizational niche than it might have at other schools.

Senusret can speak to this in even greater detail, he pledged Alpha Phi Omega at Georgetown.
Delta Sigma Pi was also on campus and shared many of the same traditions. That's all I can think of to add. :)

Gusteau 02-04-2010 03:56 PM
Benjamin Harrison was also a Delta Chi. He was the president at the time of our founding and was a highly acclaimed lawyer, making him an ideal candidate. He was initiated at a time when we were still a professional law fraternity and we still allowed dual membership.

ETA: To further clarify, Delta Chi does not have "Honorary Initiates" at present. I do not know if this was the case when Harrison was initiated, but I think the policy was the same. Alumnus Initiates are full members of Delta Chi

VandalSquirrel 02-04-2010 11:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticCat (Post 1892781)
I knew that at one point. Thanks for the reminder.

Now that I did not know. :D



These I don't know about. Thanks.
I found the Churck Norris fact on the Kappa Kappa Psi web page, not a chapter one so I think it is going to be more accurate. I remember the Phi Beta Sigma announcement re: Clinton, they voted him for membership but there hasn't been a ceremony yet so he technically wasn't a member, yet.

naraht 02-05-2010 07:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gusteau (Post 1892842)
Benjamin Harrison was also a Delta Chi. He was the president at the time of our founding and was a highly acclaimed lawyer, making him an ideal candidate. He was initiated at a time when we were still a professional law fraternity and we still allowed dual membership.

ETA: To further clarify, Delta Chi does not have "Honorary Initiates" at present. I do not know if this was the case when Harrison was initiated, but I think the policy was the same. Alumnus Initiates are full members of Delta Chi
I'll grant from the poster that he may not count as an "Honorary Initiate", so perhaps the question is better asked in the positive, "Which of these presidents were actively seeking an Associate's or Bachelor's degree during the time at which they became a member of the fraternity?".

Randy

Gusteau 02-05-2010 01:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by naraht (Post 1893138)
I'll grant from the poster that he may not count as an "Honorary Initiate", so perhaps the question is better asked in the positive, "Which of these presidents were actively seeking an Associate's or Bachelor's degree during the time at which they became a member of the fraternity?".

Randy
Good point.

I won't deny that Harrison's initiation (and others during that time period, William Jennings Bryan being another notable one) was certainly honorary in nature, if not terminology.

ThetaPrincess24 02-05-2010 03:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticCat (Post 1892479)
I'll see your Justinian and raise you a few Spartans.
I think that would make sense! :)

TSteven 02-05-2010 09:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticCat (Post 1892522)
That could be accurate, depending on whether non-social/general fraternities are included (and depending on whether Obama has been initiated by a fraternity).

Per The Center for the Study of the College Fraternity in Bloomington, Indiana:
The North-American Interfraternity Conference has also compiled a list of U.S. Presidents who were/are fraternity members. Contrary to the statistic quoted above ["All but two U.S. Presidents since 1825 have been fraternity men"], no president prior to 1877 was a fraternity member and seven presidents since then have not been fraternity men. Presidents who were fraternity members are:

President/Years in Office/Fraternity
Rutherford B. Hayes 1877-1881 Delta Kappa Epsilon
James Garfield 1881 Delta Upsilon
Chester Arthur 1881-1885 Psi Upsilon
Benjamin Harrison 1989-1893 Phi Delta Theta
William McKinley 1897-1901 Sigma Alpha Epsilon
Theodore Roosevelt 1901-1909 Delta Kappa Epsilon/Alpha Delta Phi
William Howard Taft 1909-1913 Psi Upsilon
Woodrow Wilson 1913-1921 Phi Kappa Psi
Calvin Coolidge 1923-1929 Phi Gamma Delta
Franklin D. Roosevelt 1933-1945 Alpha Delta Phi
Harry S. Truman 1945-1953 Lambda Chi Alpha
Dwight D. Eisenhower 1953-1961 Tau Epsilon Phi
John F. Kennedy 1961-1963 Phi Kappa Theta
Gerald R. Ford 1974-1977 Delta Kappa Epsilon
Ronald Reagan 1981-1989 Tau Kappa Epsilon
George H. W. Bush 1989-1993 Delta Kappa Epsilon
George W. Bush 2001- Delta Kappa Epsilon
That means that 7 presidents (not counting Obama) since 1877 were not social/general fraternity members, and all presidents since 1877, except for Rutherford B. Hayes, were born after 1825. If Warren G. Harding and Jimmy Carter (for Phi Alpha Delta) and Bill Clinton (for Alpha Phi Omega) are added, that does leave four (again, not counting Obama) who were not fraternity members.

It should also be noted that at least one president (Harry Truman) was an honorary initiate, not a collegiate. I leave to others how that should be counted.
Stephen Grover Cleveland 1885–1889 and 1893–1897 Sigma Chi

TO INITIATE MR. CLEVELAND.; HE WILL PROBABLY BE A SIGMA CHI SHORTLY.
December 17, 1892, Wednesday
The New York Times
Page 9, 739 words

The initiation of Grover Cleveland as an honorary member of the Sigma Chi fraternity is probably near at hand. The Alumni Chapter of the society in this city, of which the Rev. Dr. Theodore A.K. Gessler is Consul, has sent the following letter to the persons interested in the ceremony:

View the full original New York Times article here


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