Preparing for recruitment since birth
 

I didn't want to hijack the Alabama Recruitment Question thread that just started, but I was interested in this comment by OTW:

Face it, you'll be competing for spots with some girls who have been preparing for this since birth. That's how competitive this campus is.

I know this gets said on GC from time to time, but I'd be curious if people would give concrete examples of exactly how these women are prepped from birth (whether at Alabama or at the other cut-throat universities). I don't doubt it is true for one minute. But I'd be interested in hearing examples of what these girls and their moms do in order to maximize their chances (beyond recs for every house, etc.).

And does anyone in the know have any kind of idea how many of these heavily prepped women don't make it into an "acceptable" chapter? I know no such actual numbers exist. I'm thinking more anecdotal type stuff.

Thanks! :)

Exactly...

Or, when DEF decides to colonize at Anytown University. Women at Anytown haven't been raised that DEF is an acceptable organization in Anytown State so joining that group is NOT preferable to being non-Greek. This is how the custom of going to a small school with ABC chapter and noncompetitive recruitment began so that ABC legacy dropped at Anytown University could then transfer back to Anytown University to claim her "rightful" place.

It's really hard for new chapters to move up the food chain because of these biases taught from an early age.

Unless, of course, Mary Sue isn't a shoe in. It happens. Sometimes, the triple legacy is not ABC material, but Grandma, Aunts Martha and Billie Jo, Big Sister Anna Claire and Mama just can't see it.

Oh, I'm not arguing with you. I agree. Totally.

From an NPHC perspective, prepping since birth happens and I think it is quite unfortunate.

It includes, but is not limited to, the lame "future XYZ" shirts that people are given at babyshowers. The "my mommy/daddy is an XYZ" shirts are only tolerable if they are on a child who is the opposite sex of the organization's membership. Telling kids "when you become an XYZ" is equally annoying.

I think it is fine to socialize kids around college educated and professional people who are also in GLOs. What's lame is surrounding your child by a particular GLO with hopes of shaping your child's decision making process. Give your child the information and let them know they have tons of sources of information and potential letters of rec should they decide to go that route. Don't bamboozle them into thinking that's THE route for them. Let them know they have support in whatever they decide.

I don't entertain future anything from children. I only entertain aspirant conversations--meaning, people who are collegiates or alum and qualify for membership. If you are under the age of 18 and aren't a college student or alum, I don't care what you want to be. If you want to be in a sorority other than mine, don't expect me to try to speak negatively about that other sorority and persuade you to join mine when you FINALLY go to college. I had a child in the family try that with me over the holiday. LOL.

Thanks for all the interesting replies!

So if Mary Sue is an ABC super legacy and ABC is a "second tier" group (still good and acceptable but not one of "the" groups), and she would have what it takes to make it into a "top tier" group... Would she strive for "improving" herself by going for the top tier group or would she be more apt to be "content" as an ABC because that is all she knows and what is expected? Would her family be glad to have her move to a "top tier" group or would ABC membership be all that matters?

If I were a betting woman, I think it would be ABC all the way. You have that many ABCs in your family, many times, they don't like seeing a family member purposely join a rival organization. (Whether or not they are the same "tier" or higher.)

are so called second tier groups even though the are strong nationals still good organizations?
it is a shame that a chapter on a campus is not in the top what ever but is still strong nation wide and they have family who in that organization. we have gone through many changes over the years so things do change.

and it continues with decorating the child's room in organization colors/mascots, allowing the child to use the handsign in pics or doing the call in public, attending EVERY stepshow/conference/chapter meeting, threatening to not pay tuition if said child pledges something other than your org (or "brother/sister" org), joining the youth affiliate group and treating it like a little brother/sister club...

the list goes on.

i mean seriously. let the children have a mind (and affiliation) of their own. creating a legacy is awesome, but shouldnt be the rule.

To answer TriDeltaSallie, from what I've seen over the years, and this is just my observation, many moms from my part of the world anyway, would prefer their daughter go Top Tier, over their own group even their own chapter. I have seen it too many times. They call it finding the best fit for their daughter. It is moving up the social ladder. They have seen to it that daughter went to right HS, the right summer camp and I hate to say this, even the right church. This is certainly not everyone but it is enough to be noticed by those of us who work on Reference Boards. It is an amazing thing to watch as an observer to positioning that takes place. This is going to be an interesting thread.

On another note, people tend to discuss this as it pertains to sororities (not just because the people in this thread are in sororities) but such preparation also happens with many fraternity legacies. Maybe the connotation is different when it comes to fraternities and I think that might be a gendered double standard.

I might add that Mary Sue IS drilled and coached on the skills and rules that will serve her in recruitment...but from age 3 to age 15, not as a high school senior. No one is born knowing that you don't wear white shoes after Labor Day. Mary Sue's mama made sure she knew about that. School-aged Mary Sue went to dancing class and tea parties and cotillions where she had a chance to practice her social graces (and mama had a chance to whip her into shape if she made any mistakes). She IS groomed from birth, but for the life of the social elite in Anytown, not for rush per se.

The first few pages of a novel about Mary Sue, which Mary Sue wrote in her 50s and which you can read on Amazon, explain the process in detail:

http://www.amazon.com/Heartbreak-Hot...der_1416544909
________

Could you give some examples of how moving to the "top tier" would change life for Mary Sue? Would her "top tier" status impact the rest of her ABC family relations? If so, how so? And if not, why not?

Your knowledge of sororities and tiers at competitive schools is so admirable, Tom.

http://i462.photobucket.com/albums/q...sDoubtfire.jpg

Ding ding ding ding ding! We have a winner. What many people don't understand is that it isn't really a matter of "grooming" when it comes to being a "natural fit" (for lack of a better phrase) into a "top tier" chapter at a competitive school. These are the girls we have known since birth. We often grew up in the same neighborhood. Our parents are old friends and may have been sorority sisters and fraternity brothers. That goes for our grandparents, aunts, uncles etc. We went to the same schools. We were in Girl Scouts together. We went to camp together for years. We were debs together. We already know a lot of our sisters or their relatives long before recruitment begins, and we aren't depending on summer parties, recs etc.

LadyLonghorn,

What percentage of women at the most competitive recruitment schools are debs? Is it 100%? 50%? Does it vary significantly by state or school? Does it vary significantly by "tier"?

Thanks! :)

Just interested and Low C Sharp are right on the money here. There is constant drilling going on by the families of the Mary Sues but it may not directly pertain to rush at all, rather to how the Mary Sues are expected to live their lives--and the 'right' bid should follow. Back in the day, it usually did.

With release figures being the way they are now, though, it's not a given that the 'right' bid will follow. There are so so many Mary Sues out there plus a lot of other girls whom the sororities are interested in because of their great grades and strong activities and you just can't count on getting a bid from certain groups anymore.

I can't speak for all those moms who focus on the "right" school and "right" camp, but my guess is that at the end of the day, as an ABC, Mary Sue will mix with the top fraternities. So she'll hopefully meet/date/marry the son of a big shot, who'll grow into a big shot himself and keep her in the right house, neighborhood, clothes, and clubs for life.
________

This is all fascinating. I come from a non-Greek family and went to a non-competitive school in the midwest. We got one rec letter the entire time I was there (not quite a legacy but had a Kappa aunt) and the entire chapter was excited about it. Definitely minimal grooming at our school, intentional or otherwise.

The only person I know who was "groomed" was my former coworker. She was "strongly encouraged" by her adoptive mother to go Greek and wound up in her mother's house. She didn't hate the experience, but didn't get as much out of it as she could've. She just didn't care much about it, and still doesn't. Of course this is a much less competitive area with minimal grooming for most.

Although it would've been nice to have SOME insight into what the Greek system was (besides the media) before going into it, I'm glad I wasn't groomed for ABC or XYZ. There's enough pressure just trying to find the right one for you, let alone finding the right one for you and making sure it is ABC to live up to your/your family's unspoken(?) expectations. Not to mention to make sure that you get in, especially if there are more legacies than open spots. But I suppose sometimes it is what you make of it- so if you grow up knowing innately that you will be ABC and you will love ABC, you are more likely love it no matter what. Attitude is everything, isn't it?

This.

Good job.

So what happens if Mary Sue meets a future big shot who is from Othertown (not Anytown) and in Othertown, ABC is not "the" group but LMN is. How is Mary Sue received by the social elites in Othertown if she isn't a part of one of their perceived top groups?

I will give a fraternity based example of a chapter who is now long gone (R.I.P)

Phi Delt at the UA tended to pledge alot of Highland Park, Dallas guys. Now, Highland Park guys are in demand because thats a very rich, monied part of Dallas with alot of stellar guys. Along with Southeast Arkansas guys, Highland Park guys tend to have their picks of whoever they want during recruitment. Except they chose Phi Delt, who is higher socially but not as high as EX, KE, and SAE.

Why, you may ask.

Because Phi Delt is very good at Southern Methodist University in Highlanad Park, Dallas. Probably the best, last time I checked. So, they chose the brand-name recognition that their families and friends all knew and connected with one one of the best.


(I think this has to do with the situation but it may not.)

I've read it. Good book. The campus is suppose to be Auburn in the 1950s. However, the sorority women live in houses so I am sure it is a composite of various Southern campuses and Greek Life.

Do you mean that as in future big shot from Othertown would have to move to Anytown because that is where his wife is from? Or do people seriously restrict their spouse selection to their hometown friends?

A lady that I know is a 60-year-plus member of her GLO. A few years ago she told me that she was sorry that she joined ABC because after she graduated, she was not invited to join certain organizations. She felt certain that it was because she was an ABC and the women in charge of the organizations were XYZs.

When her daughters and granddaughters rushed, she never even mentioned that she was an ABC even though there were chapters at those schools. She was so proud when her girls joined the "right" houses and that one granddaughter was an XYZ. According to her, that XYZ pin opened the gates of heaven for the girl. She was invited to join all the organizations that her she "couldn't" and that she was very proud that her ABC legacy status didn't taint her. I sat there stunned and then I told her that I was sorry that she felt that way. I also told her that I belonged to a couple of her "dream" organizations and that I knew for a fact that there were many ABCs who were quite involved. One ABC was even president! She didn't know what to say. Some things do change over 50 years.

TriDeltaSallie, look up Prudence Mackintosh's books on Amazon or Alibris. They're full of fantastic information on Southern women and how they filter into various groups, plus they're hysterical! Prudence Mackintosh went KKG at Texas and raised 3 sons in Highland Park.

Unfortunately, the casting of Ally Sheedy as said Mary Sue in the movie completely defeated the point. They needed to wait till Reese Witherspoon was old enough to play the part.

I was going to say that I think a lot of this is like families who always sent their sons to Groton & Harvard (and who then joined Porcellian while they were there) but I honestly think those places have become more de-homogenized than the institutions we're talking about. I could be wrong.

Eh, IF wife and husband are from simiar social circles -- and here we seem to be talking mainly about the South, and, frankly, the Old Money, Fine Old Family portion of the upper middle / upper class -- similar social circles in Otherville WILL know what the "top" and the "acceptable" GLOs are at a variety of campuses. That is, they'll know, even if most of them are XYZs from U of Whatsis, that DEF is "top" or "good" at Dixie-Davis U. (And they'll know the "rank" of XYZ at Dixie-Davis, too.)

You know, it is just so blamed difficult to explain all this to a non-southerner since we grew up with it. Some things you just "know"...and I don't mean to sound snobby here...it's just reality. Southerners are just more "connected" I think...

why do people have all this TIME on their hands to keep up with this?

This is true of present-day sororities, too.

LOL.

Let the record show that this isn't about Southerner vs. nonSoutherner or any other dichotomy. There are just people who really think that certain traditions and types of upbringing are wonderful, but to specifically prepare a child for Greekdom (versus it simply being a trickle down effect, as someone said earlier) is strange.

And as a non-southerner I feel both that it is really cool and really sad. The part of me that values family, tradition and community thinks it is an incredibly special blessing to be so connected to them. And there is another part of me that just finds it sad that someone's whole life is basically planned out for them before birth.

I truly don't mean that as a slam. But for someone outside of the south, it really is both fascinating and hard to comprehend. It's hard to imagine going to school and camp and college and socializing with the same group of people my entire life. I think of college as a time to meet new people and explore new opportunities. To have life so mapped out at such a young age just seems to somehow miss some of the joy of the unexpected and new. I think the part of me that likes new challenges and opportunities to explore would find the structure to be incredibly confining.

Again, I mean no disrespect to anyone reading this. It is just a completely different way of looking at life that I find truly fascinating. :)