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-   -   Mass. 2nd-grader sent home for crucifix drawing (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=109471)

DaemonSeid 12-15-2009 07:17 PM

Mass. 2nd-grader sent home for crucifix drawing
 
TAUNTON, Mass. (AP) — An 8-year-old boy was sent home from school and ordered to undergo a psychological evaluation after he was asked to make a Christmas drawing and came up with what appeared to be a stick figure of Jesus on a cross, the child's father said Tuesday.

Chester Johnson told WBZ-TV that his son made the drawing on Dec. 2 after his second-grade teacher asked children to sketch something that reminded them of the holiday.

Johnson said the teacher became upset when his son said he drew himself on the cross. Johnson, who is black, told WBZ he suspects racism is involved. He said he thinks the school overreacted and wants an apology.


Johnson told the Taunton Daily Gazette, which first reported the story on Tuesday, that his son gets specialized reading and speech instruction and has never been violent in school.

An educational consultant working with the Johnson family said the teacher was also alarmed when the boy drew Xs for Jesus' eyes.

A call to Johnson was not immediately returned.

link

knight_shadow 12-15-2009 07:21 PM

"Johnson, who is black, told WBZ he suspects racism is involved."

GTFOHWTBS :rolleyes:

DrPhil 12-15-2009 07:22 PM

Ummm...so...he got in trouble for drawing "Jesus" on the crucifix because it reminds him of Christmas?

Uh...:confused:...what's wrong with what he drew?

Dionysus 12-15-2009 07:26 PM

The stick figure looked more like Michael Jackson. :o

DaffyKD 12-15-2009 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrPhil (Post 1875425)
Ummm...so...he got in trouble for drawing "Jesus" on the crucifix because it reminds him of Christmas?

Uh...:confused:...what's wrong with what he drew?

Kid got his holidays mixed up? That is the only thing I see wrong and this isn't even my religion.

DaemonSeid 12-15-2009 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrPhil (Post 1875425)
Ummm...so...he got in trouble for drawing "Jesus" on the crucifix because it reminds him of Christmas?

Uh...:confused:...what's wrong with what he drew?

I'm confused....read that again....did he draw Jesus or himself?

Kevin 12-15-2009 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid (Post 1875431)
I'm confused....read that again....did he draw Jesus or himself?

Himself, FTA.

I'm guessing the racism charges would arise from the fact that the figure on the cross was a black person and black Jesus is too much for some folks to handle.

DrPhil 12-15-2009 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid (Post 1875431)
I'm confused....read that again....did he draw Jesus or himself?

Oh, I thought the "himself" was as a typo or something.

He drew "himself" on the crucifix? Maybe he was drawing how Jesus died on the cross for him? Idunno. Certainly not disciplinary action-worthy. What ever happened to talking to parents about what their kids did (just in case there's an issue there) and letting the parents talk to the kids?

DaemonSeid 12-15-2009 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrPhil (Post 1875434)
Oh, I thought the "himself" was as a typo or something.

He drew "himself" on the crucifix? Maybe he was drawing how Jesus died on the cross for him? Idunno. Certainly not disciplinary action-worthy. What ever happened to talking to parents about what their kids did (just in case there's an issue there) and letting the parents talk to the kids?

So wait...since religion is not 'allowed' in school, there is a ban on Christ drawings?

DrPhil 12-15-2009 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin (Post 1875433)
Himself, FTA.

I'm guessing the racism charges would arise from the fact that the figure on the cross was a black person and black Jesus is too much for some folks to handle.

Rhetorical question time.

So, did he draw himself or did he just say he drew himself because he drew a Black Jesus (and the kid's Black)?

Kinda like "I...am...Malcolm X."

DaemonSeid 12-15-2009 07:41 PM

how do we know that Jesus is Black?

knight_shadow 12-15-2009 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin (Post 1875433)
Himself, FTA.

I'm guessing the racism charges would arise from the fact that the figure on the cross was a black person and black Jesus is too much for some folks to handle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid (Post 1875437)
how do we know that Jesus is Black?

Exactly. I see a stick figure drawn in black ink/crayon/marker.

DrPhil 12-15-2009 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid (Post 1875435)
So wait...since religion is not in school, there is a ban on Christ drawings?

There shouldn't be. I'm confused by this.

Kevin 12-15-2009 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrPhil (Post 1875434)
Oh, I thought the "himself" was as a typo or something.

He drew "himself" on the crucifix? Maybe he was drawing how Jesus died on the cross for him? Idunno. Certainly not disciplinary action-worthy. What ever happened to talking to parents about what their kids did (just in case there's an issue there) and letting the parents talk to the kids?

I'm reading that he was drawing himself on the cross, but the teacher was thinking black Jesus.

Maybe I'm reading in or misreading or not reading or something?

DaemonSeid 12-15-2009 07:56 PM

Let's try this one on for size

see this here:
Chester Johnson said his son made the drawing on Dec. 2 after his second-grade teacher asked children to sketch something that reminded them of the holiday. The assignment came just days after the family had visited the holiday lights display at the National Shrine of Our Lady of La Salette in Attleboro, where Johnson said his son seemed taken with the religious statues he saw there.
"When he seen the crucifixion of Jesus on the cross, that's what he drew," Johnson said. "He liked that. That drew his eye."

DrPhil 12-15-2009 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin (Post 1875442)
I'm reading that he was drawing himself on the cross, but the teacher was thinking black Jesus.

Maybe I'm reading in or misreading or not reading or something?

I don't know.

If the teacher was thinking Black Jesus and thought that was disciplinary action-worthy, assuming that Jesus on the crucifix itself wasn't the issue, that is DEFINITELY a race issue.

Kevin 12-15-2009 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrPhil (Post 1875445)
I don't know.

If the teacher was thinking Black Jesus and thought that was disciplinary action-worthy, assuming that Jesus on the crucifix itself wasn't the issue, that is DEFINITELY a race issue.

My interpretation was that whoever (the parents?) was complaining about racism assumed it was because the dude on the cross was black. And yeah, that'd be a no brainer.

But the teacher, who is saying nothing, more than likely had no racial motivation and was simply discriminating against the kid because of the kid's religious expression, not race... equally dumb though.

The teacher is a jackass either way.

ASTalumna06 12-15-2009 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin (Post 1875447)
The teacher is a jackass either way.

Exactly.

The teacher could have talked to the parents first. But suspending a 2nd grader with special needs for drawing a picture of, what appears to be, Jesus on the cross, is ridiculous... no matter what the assignment is.

I find it interesting that this is the same school that told a 6-year-old boy to walk home by himself a month ago..

http://www.wpri.com/dpp/news/local_n...ne20091112_tro

DrPhil 12-15-2009 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin (Post 1875447)
The teacher is a jackass either way.

Yeah.

I would be thoroughly amused if the teacher says "it wasn't about religion OR race...it was a drawing depicting death...I thought it was morbid and feared the child was telling me that he was going to hang himself or someone else."

Kevin 12-15-2009 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrPhil (Post 1875452)
Yeah.

I would be thoroughly amused if the teacher says "it wasn't about religion OR race...it was a drawing depicting death...I thought it was morbid and feared the child was telling me that he was going to hang himself or someone else."

You're sure you're not a lawyer?

VandalSquirrel 12-15-2009 09:02 PM

I read about this earlier and that article said it was the X over the eyes of Jesus that disturbed her. Now when I google that I only get this link http://www.thenewamerican.com/index....-jesus-drawing

FWIW it was mobile news on my phone so I never had a link.

MysticCat 12-15-2009 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VandalSquirrel (Post 1875460)
I read about this earlier and that article said it was the X over the eyes of Jesus that disturbed her.

The way NPR is reporting it is that he drew the crucifix (with Xs for eyes), and when the teacher pressed him about it and about who he had drawn (I would have thought that would be obvious, but hey), he said he had drawn himself. His father, who works as a janitor at the school, thought perhaps the kid was afraid he'd get in trouble if he said he'd drawn Jesus.

There are just so many things wrong with this scenario, but I don't think thta the kid was responsible for any of them.

RU OX Alum 12-15-2009 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid (Post 1875437)
how do we know that Jesus is Black?

because that kid just drew us a picture.

33girl 12-15-2009 10:00 PM

Umm, this is a special needs kid. Even without that, I don't think an 8 year old's going to get all the eyeball nuances that Rembrandt would.

And it's a stick figure drawn in pencil, duh. What other color is it going to be other than black? I agree, this teacher is the idiot, and the kid is thinking WAY deeper than most people do.

WinniBug 12-15-2009 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 1875477)
And it's a stick figure drawn in pencil, duh. What other color is it going to be other than black? I agree, this teacher is the idiot, and the kid is thinking WAY deeper than most people do.

That's what I thought; it looks like the kids just picked up a pencil or whatever crayon was handy. It's not like there are ANY colors in the picture! The wood of the cross is black also, are they going to say now that there are issues because he drew burnt wood?

We get pictures at my school like this all the time, but then again, I teach at a Catholic school. And Jesus died on the cross, and dead people are drawn with Xs for eyes. Was the kid supposed to draw Jesus looking at you?

ETA: I think this is a pretty darn good picture for a 2nd grader who's not used to looking at crucifixes every day.
My thoughts...when they saw the shrine, they probably saw the nativity as well as the ccrucifix, and the kid put 2 and 2 together that the baby in the manger and the man on the cross were the same person.

PeppyGPhiB 12-15-2009 10:42 PM

If the teacher didn't like the response, she shouldn't have asked the question! What's she doing asking kids to draw something that reminds them of the holiday season, anyway? I thought that wasn't allowed? <rolls eyes>

I guess he was supposed to draw a picture of the Festivus Pole.

AGDee 12-16-2009 12:14 AM

I'm still not hearing any "reason" for the kid to be sent home. Is that like a suspension? I would think there would have to be a rule broken for that, but they aren't saying what rule he broke. I don't get it.

ASTalumna06 12-16-2009 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticCat (Post 1875464)
The way NPR is reporting it is that he drew the crucifix (with Xs for eyes), and when the teacher pressed him about it and about who he had drawn (I would have thought that would be obvious, but hey), he said he had drawn himself.

My thought exactly. If I asked someone to draw something that reminded them of Christmas, and they drew a picture of a man on a cross, I probably wouldn't ask, "Hey, who's that?" The teacher was drawing attention to something that wasn't that big of a deal in the first place.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB (Post 1875492)
If the teacher didn't like the response, she shouldn't have asked the question! What's she doing asking kids to draw something that reminds them of the holiday season, anyway? I thought that wasn't allowed? <rolls eyes>

Why is this not allowed?? I don't understand why people are getting all bent out of shape about minor things. Remember the days when you could have holiday parties in school? And tell people "Merry Christmas!" ... yea, that's not allowed anymore.

But that's a different argument for a different thread.

Quote:

I guess he was supposed to draw a picture of the Festivus Pole.
Would have been my first choice! :D

PeppyGPhiB 12-16-2009 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB (Post 1875492)
If the teacher didn't like the response, she shouldn't have asked the question! What's she doing asking kids to draw something that reminds them of the holiday season, anyway? I thought that wasn't allowed? <rolls eyes>

I guess he was supposed to draw a picture of the Festivus Pole.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06 (Post 1875522)

Why is this not allowed?? I don't understand why people are getting all bent out of shape about minor things. Remember the days when you could have holiday parties in school? And tell people "Merry Christmas!" ... yea, that's not allowed anymore.

But that's a different argument for a different thread.

Notice my "<rolls eyes>"? Yes, it's ridiculous that on one hand there isn't supposed to be religion in school nowadays (so we hear - "winter break," "happy holidays," etc.), and yet a teacher gives an assignment like this and gets huffy when a student draws a picture of Christ, the person for whom CHRISTmas is named. I guess I'd be more offended by drawings of things like Santa Claus or presents than I would Christ, because those things aren't REALLY what the Christmas holiday was about. If she didn't want any photos of anything Christmas related, she should have just asked the kids to draw a picture of winter.

Psi U MC Vito 12-16-2009 12:41 AM

Slightly off topic, but does anybody else catch the irony that separation of church and state is such a fundamental part of the law of this country, yet Christ Mass (yes that was intentional) is a federal holiday.

ASTalumna06 12-16-2009 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB (Post 1875529)
Notice my "<rolls eyes>"? Yes, it's ridiculous that on one hand there isn't supposed to be religion in school nowadays (so we hear - "winter break," "happy holidays," etc.), and yet a teacher gives an assignment like this and gets huffy when a student draws a picture of Christ, the person for whom CHRISTmas is named. I guess I'd be more offended by drawings of things like Santa Claus or presents than I would Christ, because those things aren't REALLY what the Christmas holiday was about. If she didn't want any photos of anything Christmas related, she should have just asked the kids to draw a picture of winter.

Ah, I see. I took your eye-rolling to mean something else :):p

LaneSig 12-16-2009 10:08 AM

SLOW DOWN!

The story that is posted in the OP and the story in the link are saying 2 different things. The school is saying that the boy was never suspended and the picture is not the one he drew.

Also, for the record: Teachers cannot suspend students, only administrators. But, as the district says, the student was never suspended.

DaemonSeid 12-16-2009 10:12 AM

...interesting...they updated the story...



I just wonder... does Taunton only smell bad on the outside?

LaneSig 12-16-2009 10:26 AM

Is this the original story?

http://www.tauntongazette.com/news/x...awing-of-Jesus

The one where the school principal refers the reporter to speak to the superintendent's office, because that is required by the staff at the school? Where the district says that they can't speak about what happened to reporters because, oh I don't know, there are strict privacy laws that don't allow districts to speak about students to the public?

But, of course, the parent couldn't be stirring up issues and making a mountain out of a molehill. Only teachers and school officials do that. :rolleyes:

DaemonSeid 12-16-2009 10:34 AM

Not from the link but that is one variation I read.

LaneSig 12-16-2009 11:53 AM

DaemonSeid-

Just to clear the air, I was not intentionally attacking you or suggesting that you were purposefully not reporting the facts correctly. If it appears that way in my post, I apologize. I just felt that the teacher was being unfairly attacked for something that was taken out of her hands.

DrPhil 12-16-2009 12:11 PM

It was taken out of her hands because she handed it to someone else. We know that teachers don't singlehandedly place such disciplinary action on students and request psych evals before students can return to school.

It started with her and, therefore, it is first her fault for getting the ball rolling, and then the dumb administration's fault for seeing it through. If she had just spoken with the parents (like teachers used to do--and some still do--before school violence started getting attention outside of the "inner city") the parents and teacher could have addressed this.

I knew it! The son "had created a violent drawing," and I am thoroughly amused as I predicted I'd be.

DaemonSeid 12-16-2009 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaneSig (Post 1875634)
DaemonSeid-

Just to clear the air, I was not intentionally attacking you or suggesting that you were purposefully not reporting the facts correctly. If it appears that way in my post, I apologize. I just felt that the teacher was being unfairly attacked for something that was taken out of her hands.

YES YOU WERE!!


Nah...we're cool...I went back and looked and saw that the original source had indeed changed.

But...let us proceed:

This just gets better and better, thanks LaneSig:

link

TAUNTON, Mass. (AP) — A Massachusetts school district on Tuesday night denied a father's claims that his son was suspended for drawing a stick figure of Jesus on a cross.

The Taunton School District said in a written statement that the second-grade student was never suspended over the sketch and that a drawing circulated to reporters by the boy's father, Chester Johnson, is not the same one that was discovered by the teacher.

The district also denied that the boy and his classmates had been assigned to draw something that reminded them of Christmas or any other religious holiday.

Johnson, who had said his son was ordered to undergo a psychological evaluation after the drawing was discovered, did not return multiple phone messages from The Associated Press on Tuesday night about the school district's statements.

"This incident occurred nearly two weeks ago, it was handled appropriately, and the school staff and family had been working together in a cooperative and positive manner," the district said in a statement posted on its Web site.

School officials did not specify any action they took, but said they followed "well-established protocol," including reviewing the child's records and consulting with school psychologists.

"It is unfortunate that the actions of our district staff have been classified as "religious" in nature when, in fact, they were based solely on the wellbeing of the student," the district's statement said.



Somebody's story is starting to look shaky

DrPhil 12-16-2009 12:31 PM

Oh well...if the school's lying then WOMP. If the parents are lying then WOMP.

KSig RC 12-16-2009 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito (Post 1875533)
Slightly off topic, but does anybody else catch the irony that separation of church and state is such a fundamental part of the law of this country, yet Christ Mass (yes that was intentional) is a federal holiday.

Actually, it's kind of the opposite of "ironic" - it's pragmatic.


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