Flu Vaccines
 

My crazy MIL just told me that she doesn't agree with my decision to get my 7 month old Babybug vaccinated because the flu vaccine has antifreeze in it, is strained through dead fetuses and is a live virus.

I know the vaccine a baby gets isn't a live virus, just the nasal mist is, but does anyone know where the rest of that mumbo jumbo came from??

:rolleyes: I give her credit for creativity.

Her chiropractor who doesn't believe in any kind of of shots told her that....

So she decided to take information about medicine from somebody who isn't even a doctor? The live virus thing is the only part of that tirade that I think would be feasable. Antifreeze seriously? Sure because the drug companies want to poison thousands of people.

I know that the Pharmacist I work with doesn't recommend the flu shot to children under 9(?)ish because it has something in it that is linked to autism.

It is exactly this kind of misleading information that scares parents into not getting their children vaccinated. The scientific evidence behind the idea that Thimerosal, a common preservative in vaccines, causes autism is weak and numerous studies have gone so far as to support the rejection of the hypothesis entirely.

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/13516797...ne-Ingredients
http://www.flu-treatments.com/flu-shot-ingredients.html

What sort of training does a chiropractor have to give him any sort of insight on this above and beyond the average Joe?

The anti-vaccination crowd makes my blood rise sometimes. It's all well and good that people don't want to vaccinate their children...but then segregate them from the rest of the world and don't inflict their germy little selves on the rest of us. As a T1 Diabetic, my immune system isn't always 100%, and infections and illnesses take much longer to die down for me. And down time means no work, which means no money, which I don't really have the wiggle room to lose. So while those precious little non antibiotic all organic non vaccinators sit around and say that the body is meant to fight off disease, I'm down with the flu or worse and paying out the nose for it.

To me, vaccination isn't so much about the self, it's about others (the elderly, the young, the immunosupressed). NPR's This American Life had a story about a group of parents who didn't get the MMR vaccine for their kids...then one got the measles. Measles is infectious for up to 2 hrs after the person has left the room. A whole group of children too young to be vaccinated ended up getting the disease because of those kids just being in the same store, and then had to be quarantined/hospitalized.

The British writer Dr. Ben Goldsmith has written pretty extensively on the origins of the MMR=Autism misunderstanding.

More from the BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8268302.stm
And from BBC wayyyy back in 1998
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/68947.stm

EX-actly!

I shit you not, these are her facebook responses to my status update about my 7 mo. old's dr. appt. and vaccines.

don't agree with the flu shots at all




the shot has antifreeze in it and they strain it through dead fetuses. no, this is not a made up story...had the facts from my chiropractor who does not believe in any shots....says if you keep your back healthy.....you can deal with anything and he had the printed material to back it up.......the flu vaccine is for last years flu.....not the new strains that come out




the H1N1 is a live virus....which can't be good....to me they pushed it way too fast




i didn't know till a few years ago that your kids don't have to have shots to get into school

"and he had the printed material to back it up"

Yeah I could have printed material about fetus strainers too if I felt inclined to boot up my inkjet printer...

I wonder if she remembers what Polio victims looked like before that vaccine was developed. Or the infant and childhood mortality rate. Yep, they didn't have to have vaccines to get into school...when they were dead.

Also..the back has no correlation with your immune system. I've had some quacks tell me they could cure my diabetes with an "adjustment". Riiight...because cracking my back will miraculously regenerate my islet cells. Hallelujah.

ME TOO. I'm sorry, but I think people who do not get vaccinated, or don't have their children vaccinated are selfish idiots. If they have an legitimate allergy to the vaccine, then okay, otherwise.....

My Grandma died giving birth to my aunt because she had polio.

Disclaimer: I got vaccinated and I agree with being vaccinated.

She needs to chill out.

That is YOUR baby and you decide to do whatever you want to b/c you're it's mom.

Well, I'll throw this in about flu vaccines. My mom has gotten the flu shot every year since I can remember and every single year, she catches the flu--not just a little discomfort either, she would be out of work for a full week or more. She's a really healthy person otherwise, nothing comprising her immune system or anything. However, my parents never gave me the flu vaccine when I was little for whatever reason and I've gotten the flu three times that I can remember (ages 9, 15, and 21). So, for obvious reasons, I never saw the point of having it. I got it this year because I intern at a hospital and they run around like everyone who doesn't get it is bound to die a painful, miserable death. :rolleyes: It was just for this year and, as I had a reaction to the shot, I don't plan on doing it again, unless I once again find myself working in a hospital or some other place with immonosuppressed people. And even then, it'd be for them and not me.

That being said, if a baby falls into that high-risk group, then the pros may outweigh the cons. You're her mom, so you get to make that call. As she gets older, it may not be so important, but right now she's your baby and you're protecting her the best you can. You're right not to let threats of antifreeze scare you. ;)

That's probably because your mom came in contact with the flu before getting the vaccine or before the vaccine was in full effect.

There's a window of time that your vaccinator (is that a word? like, terminator) will tell you about when you get the vaccine. My vaccinator told me about the window of time years ago when I told her "flu vaccines don't work or they must give you the flu sometimes...because so-and-so still got the flu."

As for your reaction to the shot, the form that most of us sign at flu clinics (or your doctor can tell you) explains the risks for people with certain allergies and conditions. I always sign the waiver because the flu is worse than MY allergic reactions.

^^^I think there is a 2-3 week window of time before the vaccine fully "works."

Also, flu vaccines don't include EVERY strain of flu that exists, only the few that they believe will be most problematic for that season.

Don't take this the wrong way, but a sample size of two people (you and your mom) is not convincing at all. Anecdotal evidence about how well the flu shot worked for a few people you know does not outweigh the evidence that the flu shot is extremely beneficial for the majority of people. It's a pet peeve of mine when people try to discount well-documented scientific phenomena or studies with, "Well, but, my friend/mom/sister/cousin..." stories. Different people are different in how their immune system reacts, and there are lots of other variables in play - I'm sure you know that from interning at a hospital.

/rant

I agree with the rest of your post, as well as the posters who say that people who don't get their children vaccinated are being selfish. Yes, it's their choice, but the rest of us don't have the choice of whether or not to live with the little infectious hosts. Maybe those kids should have to wear some sort of scarlet letter so we can see them coming... :p

I didn't know it was as long as 2-3 weeks. I know that I was more hand-sanitizery and don't-touch-me-ish until the window was over. LOL

My vaccinators explain about the flu strain thing. They say it is extremely rare to catch a strain that is not covered in the vaccine. (I always have conversations with my vaccinators so I know what's what. Some folks just go for the shot and spare the convo.)

Babybug's pediatrician told us that the seasonal flu vaccine is made at least a year in advance and contains the few strains they predict will be most prominent; and when H1N1 started around, that wasn't one they had included in this year's, which is why there's a separate vaccine.

This was the first year I've gotten a flu shot, and I probably should have gotten sick from my sister, but I didn't. Hooray! I've been told I should get a swine flu vaccination, though, since I'm gonna start substitute teaching...hmmm...

The reaction I had was not on the form--2 lymph nodes in my armpit (of the arm where I got the shot) swelled up, very large and very painfully. I'm not allergic to anything listed on the waiver, so the 3 nurses who checked me out could not explain what happened or why except "I guess you had a reaction to something in the serum, but I haven't seen that reaction before." It started about 4 days after I got the shot and lasted about a week.

Which is why that anecdote was thrown out there: to add a dimension of possibilities, not to convince anyone in one direction or another.

I have never gotten a flu shot (and never will) and have not gotten the flu since probably grade school which was over 20 years ago! And before you all say it is because I have not been in situations that would have exposed me to the flu, I have worked at a bank, Starbucks, substitute taught, retail, etc all during flu season. I have even sort of been exposed to H1N1 this year (and probably previous years, this year the media just pounced on it!) as my cousin was exposed to one of the first cases here in WI. On the other hand, my mom is going to get a flu shot because she is in (or rather will be in) a high risk group due to forthcoming chemo and radiation.

Basically it boils down to being your own decision as to whether you want to get the flu shot yourself or for your child. Have you discussed this with your pediatrician (as to the age of your child)?

The most likely answer to your mother's yearly "flu" infection is that it was NOT the flu. It is very unlikely that she would get the flu EVERY year even if she was not immunized. People call the common cold and every other viral syndrome the flu. The flu is only caused by the INFLUENZA virus. Other viruses can give you similar symptoms but will not be prevented by a shot that is made of influenza virus particles. Even if she was diagnosed by a physician with the FLU, it doesn't mean she really had the flu unless she actually got a culture. The only "pathognomonic" sign of influenza is pain in the extra-ocular muscles with movement. I had the flu on the interview trail as a senior med student...I literally had to turn my head to look around the room because moving my eyes hurt so much!


The reaction you experienced is rare, but demonstrated your immune system working a little overtime. The lymph nodes in your axilla (armpit) drain your upper extremity, including the area where you had your shot. When antigens reach lymph nodes, they are the first line of defense to fight infection in the area they guard. The reason your lymph nodes got swollen and sore was because your body made tons of new lymphocytes to fight the virus particles that had been injected into your body. Unfortunately, the process went a little further than it needed to, but we see this quite frequently in other minor infections. The lymph nodes go away over time like yours did. Nurses are not trained to know all of the side effects, etc. Not her fault, that's why we have doctors! :D

I've had the flu vaccine for the past 5 years. (Knocking on wood) I've never had flu. I work on a college campus too and I come in contact with all sorts of sick college kids! Back in August we had about half of our office out too with H1N1.

I see this as a bigger issue you're going to have to deal with for years to come. Rather than debate the safety of this vaccine, you need to let her know, tactfully, that you and your husband will be making all medical decisions about your child and that, unless you seek out her advice, her advice is not welcome. It may be better if HE tells her so it's not coming from the Daughter In Law. Additionally, I'd probably stop letting her know any of that kind of information, for the sake of family peace. Or, when she does give advice, simply smile and say "I'll take that under consideration" and move on.

The stuff she told you about the vaccine is BS, but you knew that, or could find that out yourself!

Excellent point. My own sister had to defriend her MIL from Facebook because she was getting way too pushy about things! You might want to consider limiting what she can see on your profile. Just an idea.

We've been telling her since we planned our wedding that she doesn't have any input in our family decisions! She just doesn't get it.
Last night, she messaged me asking if Babybug's vaccines were given in her arm, I said "No, babies get vaccines in their thighs" to which she replied, "I heard the other day that babies are supposed to get shots in their arms."
WTF? Babies don't have enough fat and muscle in their arms. And I'm pretty sure the drs and nurses know more about it than someone who never went to college and even tried to talk her 3 post-high school children OUT of college.


I might have to defriend her! My mom already did!!

WTF seriously? Why would you do that?

I'm a bit of a germophobe, so I'd rather get a vaccine and reduce the risk of getting sick.
I get the seasonal flu shot every year, typically get a couple flu-like symptoms (fully expected) on day 2 post-shot, and then I'm fine. Senior year of college (during formal recruitment, actually) I got a strain of the flu nonetheless, but while everyone else who got sick around the same time was out of commission for a week, I felt better in just 2 or 3. I think the flu shot is great.
So when the H1N1 vaccine became available in my area, I went and got the shot as soon as I could (I am 23, so I barely made the cutoff).

I cannot believe how many people I've mentioned it to who say "I can't believe you did that." "Hope you're still alive in a few months." "You have no idea what's in that vaccine." etc. It is driving me crazy!! I'm so glad I'm not the only one.

Wooooow...that was a lot to take in, but thanks. It makes sense and was much better than my answer...(I was convinced I had cancer that was spreading to my brain and all my other internal organs--ever since last season of Grey's, that's my answer for everything. It takes a bit to get a grip on myself. :rolleyes: :p)

The H1N1 vaccine just became available this week. Like I said, as I work in a hospital (around cancer patients, no less) I'll get the vaccine for them, not for me. If it were up to me, I'd just keep doing what I've been doing, but it's not just me I have to think about.

Exactly!