Capitalist vs. Socialistic
 

I heard once an interesting comparison between NIC Fraternity rush and NPC Sorority Rush.

The Fraternities rush capitalistically, the Sororities rush socialistically.

At most schools I've seen, the fraternities don't care at all (at least not officially) if one of the other fraternities don't manage to rush anyone in a given semester. And I've never seen any situation where fraternities put limits on their own rush to help keep another chapter alive.

OTOH, the sororities make sure that at least at the beginning that all of the sororities get the same number (or close) and only after everyone has gotten to that number is there any opportunity for additional recruitment.

Comments?

Not all guys rushes are the same way.

At Arkansas, ours is set up fairly similar to very strict girls rush. In fact, there is not too much difference between the rules besides guys drink alot more during the formal.

Where I'm going it seems like naraht's description is pretty accurate, at least on the fraternity end. Although, one thing I've noticed when asking my friends in various orgs how their rush went is that they all gave out an identical number of bids. Don't know if that's coincidence or an IFC-mandated thing or what.

Interesting concept.

Although I think DePauw has a quota for fraternity recruitment. I'm not 100% sure, but I'm know that whatever school it is has a Delta Chi chapter.

ETA: It is DePauw : http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...d.php?t=102885

Since I never understood the "we all have to be equal" mentality, I've always advocated for an end to quota and total as artificial limits. It's been my experience that chapters will go through cycles, with some strong years and some weaker years.

But I don't get to make NPC rules.

**whew**

Yes, they will- and that happens regardless of quota or total. But if a chapter is going through a weaker time and there is no quota, the stronger chapters get more women and the weaker get less. Then the chapter doesn't get enough new members and after a period will have to close. You may not feel it as much at a larger university with quotas of 50, 75, or 100 women.

On my campus with a small Greek system of 3 sororities, this was felt very strongly. Total was 50 but average chapter size was 30 and quota was often around 9-10. One chapter got down to 6 members. If they didn't pull through with a strong recruitment, they were going to close the chapter. Another chapter had a rule that they couldn't be on a campus with two or less. They would have had to close, even though they were strong. The last chapter had a rule that they couldn't be the only one on campus. There goes the Greek system.

Because of quota and the sororities supporting each other as Panhellenic sisters, that small chapter pulled through and all three chapters are strong today. I was one of the new members of the 6 person sorority that tripled the membership size. I can't imagine the campus without sororities, nor my college or adult life without it. Is this an extreme example? Perhaps. But it was my experience.

On a lighter note, the capitalist v. socialist comparison is amusing. And not that far off from what I've seen! I've always been amazed with the way sorority recruitment is SO formalized with full out schedules, people there to lead you through the process & walk you from door to door, and requirements on how many parties you can go to and whether or not you can cut.

Fraternities generally are more of a free-for-all, less structured, visit who you want when you want. My husband went through at the same time as me and his recruitment was basically "hey, we played soccer together. Want a bid? Come to the house and we'll give you one." Granted, I think that was pushing things a bit and was likely much more casual than most, but it was a stark difference from what I went through.

And even my school had a fairly casual recruitment compared to others. Now even moreso, they're doing a mix between formal recruitment and COB. Basically wander into whatever chapter room you want and talk to people. No singing, no themes, just hang out and get to know people. So I suppose that's closer to how I picture the men's... but still a bit more structured in that it all happens at the same time & same place.

Interesting and I hope my question as an outsider isn't inappropriate:

In you all's opinion (or based on evidence), which is more conducive to lifetime membership and involvement versus "I'm just here to have fun while at school...because we played soccer together" (:p) and "I WAS an XYZ?"

Hmm, that's hard to say. My school doesn't have a formal sorority recruitment process, but I think both systems work well. I have heard the I WAS an XYZ from both NIC and NPC members so it's really hard to say.

That's an interesting question. I think I would say both, or neither.

I think it depends on the individual's experiences and the chapter's focus on alumni involvement. For example, with NPHC (from what I've inferred from some friends and GC, so correct me if I'm wrong) you have an "informed consumer" pursuing membership and this person should already understand the lifetime obligation they are about to accept. With NIC/NPC your new member is likely rather clueless to the majority of the greek experience, and it's up to the chapter and its membership education program to enstill these values. So I would say that it is less about recruitment and more about education.

I disagree with your last statement in that we don't make sure every group gets the same number, we make sure each group has the opportunity to take that number, they have to do the work (ex: showcase their chapter, sisterhood, and membership and mutually select women).

Part of the reason we rush the way we do is that though annoying at times, our practices and rules protect the health of the entire system, and therefore our chapter. It has been said many times that if one chapter is at the bottom or in danger of closing, and does, another chapter will take their place, and it could be ours.

I think some of that depends on where the alumna/us lives after they graduate (near campus, near an active school or greek association or club), their connections with other people, their experience while in school (on double secret probation, closed for risk management or low numbers), whether the membership in an international or national group is emphasized, and their personality.

Thanks.

I ask because some think that how you come into the organization is important because it ideally sets the tone for the education and overall experience as a member. For example, if your recruitment is structured and perceived as being based on set criteria and expectations, that may shape how you perceive membership in the chapter and the organization. If you think it's kind of willynilly and essentially a drinking party with Greek letters attached then you may treat it as such. [ETA: I don't think fraternities, in general, are drinking parties. That was just the example that I used.]

I know it isn't so cut and dry, so thanks for your answers.

^^^ It depends, and I wouldn't say fraternity recruitment is essentially a drinking party, at least not for everybody. It's really common to have events when you can spend time talking to the rushes as well as whatever else you may being.

I don't think fraternities, in general, are drinking parties. That was just the example that I used.

I wouldn't say that sorority recruitment is socialist.
XYZ is small and works really hard at preparing for recruitment, but they have a bad reputation and take only a few members.
ABC is huge and doesn't really prepare and coasts along on a good reputation and take quota plus.
Even though XYZ works hard and needs more members it's not going to get them.
Granted over time XYZ's work would eventually pay off but that would require them to survive until that happens.
ABC's lack of work would eventually have a negative effect but if they are popular and consistently attract the popular types it would be easy to just coast.
Sororities have a say on who to take and pnms have a say on who they want to join (if at all).

It's been said before somewhere on here that women think that sorority makes them and men think that they make their fraternity. The systems have to be different to work with this.

A strong sorority has the Walmart effect. Some small business will make it, lots will fail and it's much harder for them to start and grow. For the pnms, even if you don't love Walmart it can end up being the only place to shop and even if it's not, it's just easier to go there since it's where everyone else goes. There's always going to be a higher price at the smaller/less popular sorority.

A strong fraternity is like a large boutique. If you don't like the stuff you are going to shop elsewhere. Some boutiques are larger than others but there isn't a change in cost. There isn't the criticism and rejection from the peer group. It isn't that big of a deal to prefer a less popular chapter.

I was in the least popular sorority and my fiance was in the least popular fraternity. My sisters and I were constantly working on how to fix ourselves, improve our social calendar etc to be on par with the other sororities. The guys didn't do anything or have anything less than the largest fraternity.

/moderately disappointed in my gender/

The CONCEPT of rush is textbook socialist, but of course the results are not (much like real socialism).

As far as the guys not having "anything less" than the largest fraternity, I'm guessing the guys who got absolutely no play from the most popular sorority girls because of the fraternity they were were in would disagree.

And as far as the popular sorority coasting, it depends on where you are, but in line with the culture's increasingly short term memory and instant nostalgia, you can't do this as much as you used to.

NPC recruitment encourages superficiality. Therefore, long-term commitments are built after pledging. I doubt that's much different from fraternity experiences; long-term commitments are built in the years after pledging.

Disagree. Formal rush encourages it (and even that's debatable, depending on the school). Many chapters of NPC groups recruit in manners other than formal rush.

The system is what the women make it. If the chapters have more than a hint of the superficial, that will be magnified during rush. But if the women as a whole are down to earth and could care less about fashion or status, a week of formal rush with scheduled parties and bid matching is not going to turn them or the rushees into Paris Hilton clones.

I think this is why the NPC is encouraging schools to move toward "no-frills" so the focus is the conversation. It's stupid really, because who actually chooses a chapter based on their decorations, skit, theme, or bulk-ordered matching outfits?

33girl and I are the biggest deferred recruitment cheerleaders on this board for many reasons, but among others, it allows for AUTHENTIC interaction between PNMs and actives.

You can argue that Superpopular Sigma is "forced" to be superficial because they are forced to make so many cuts after round 1 per RFM requirements. I disagree. If they want to take only the prettiest PNMs, that is their prerogative. If they want the PNMs they connect with the best, their challenge is to ask the right kinds of questions to get the right information from PNMs.

Does your campus use RFM?

Agreed. The formal recruitment round robin approach makes sense for getting to know a lot of chapters in a short amount of time. Do you get to know their hopes and desires, what makes them tick? Maybe, maybe not. But often you don't do that for several weeks, months, or even years anyway. My school only had three sororities and it was plenty of time to for the mutual selection process to take place; larger systems may make that more difficult (more options, sometimes shorter rounds) but all things considered, it's a fairly practical way to do it. Otherwise recruitment could last all four years and we'd get nothing done! :D

Informal recruitment makes sense for getting to know the chapters on a more "typical" basis- doing things they normally would do together, outside of the formalities and chants and structure. I like that both are options, both appeal to certain audiences, both enable you to get to know aspects of sorority life. I'd be curious if anyone has any other ideas for a system that would be more efficient and productive?

Well, if you let things go unchecked, "weaker years" spiral into closure. Being significantly smaller is a BIG deal if your chapter has a house, because you won't be able to afford to keep it if you can't fill it. Plus, regardless of whether a chapter is housed or not, your budget suffers. You either charge astronomically higher dues for the chapter to have a similar experience to others on the campus or you have to cut back so your chapter can't do things other chapters can.

It's really quite simple why chapters would agree to total, quota, and RFM. Every NPC has struggling chapters somewhere and agreeing to policies that help weaker chapters help NPCs everywhere.

Defer recruitment until spring. PNMs begin to sign up for recruitment the first day of fall semester. Allow chapters/Panhellenic to invite registered PNMs to philanthropy events, to watch Greek Week/Homecoming events, Panhellenic speakers/programs, etc. basically anything that wouldn't be weird to have non-members attend. Registered PNMs bring friends, friends register, they bring their friends. A semester of authentic interaction (and a semester to prove yourself academically on the college level) and then formal recruitment for efficiency.

On my campus of initiation they switched to it my junior year. When I joined my chapter they were at their lowest point and if girls were only invited to our pref they dropped and if they had two, suicided 99% of the time.

The campus I just started advising at does use it and has been for a while.

I don't think recruitment is any more superficial than a business interview. In both cases, your resume is in the hands of the prospective "employer", and an interview process is required. The same "superficial" abilities - to make intelligent conversation, to ask incisive questions, to demonstrate the ability to contribute to the org. - work for both. Come to that, physical appearance and charm come into play with both - you can decry that fact, but there it is.
At least in recruitment you get to meet more than just one or two members of the "business", and more time to "wow" them and be "wowed" yourself.

This has been my observant experience with fraternity recruitment. I also believe that their more relaxed recruitment is related to the fact that most fraternities have a relatively easy process set in place for "blackballing" or booting guys out prior to initiation. So basically they are recruiting during the whole pledge term to determine who is worthy of membership. On many campuses, it is normal to have 40 pledges but only initiate 25. If that were to happen in NPC world, all kinds of red flags would be raised. We have to figure out who is worthy of membership in 3 or 4 nights of singing and dancing. Yes, NPC groups have standards procedures for releasing pledges who are problem-children, but if that process is used too much, it's an indication of deeper issues.

Don't get me wrong - I think what we are doing now is the best option. And violetpretty's note about NPC's advocating no-frills is a step in the right direction to take out any perceived superficiality and move toward selection based on values and actual human interaction / relationships.

Regarding deferred recruitment. I think it works well on some campuses, but there are others where it would become a breeding ground for dirty rushing, I'm afraid. The tent talk would be spread out over a whole semester, and PNMs would be influenced by men as well. I don't see how it would help the struggling chapter when PNMs have a whole semester to "fall in love" with the stronger groups. One of the goals of RFM is to manage PNM expectations and let them explore realistic options rather than spending extra time with chapters that they have no chance of joining. With deferred, they just get their hopes up over a longer period of time.

While I agree with the benefits thetygerlily states, there is a major problem with deferring Recruitment to spring on large Greek campuses, particularly for those with physical houses. The financial loss of just one semester's income from a new member class can be devastating. It wouldn't just be the loss of dues that pays for socials and such, but more importantly meals, staff salaries, house maintence costs, etc.

It can be a problem for small campuses too. I came from a system of deferred recruitment. Yes, it helps fit the casual atmosphere of the college. Yes, I was able to meet a couple of women from the chapter I wound up joining. Yes, I had time to wonder "should I go through recruitment?" and make a semi-educated decision. Yes, I had time to "find myself" (or at least start figuring it out) before going through recruitment.

With that being said, I really feel that deferred recruitment hurts the sororities at my alma matter. It's a small school- 1300 students, with 3 sororities. Total is at 50 but for the past 10+ years most chapters haven't broken 40, & hover around 30. Quota is usually 6-9. A quota of 6 means only 18 signed bid cards! Out of 350ish freshman! That's incredibly low.

Freshmen have time to get involved in other clubs & activities, get overwhelmed with studies, and make other friends. It's a 100% residential campus, so dorms are great fodder for friendships. That lends itself to freshmen not seeing the value in the Greek system, because they already have friends and clubs and activities and way too much schoolwork. It also gives them time to talk themselves- and their friends- OUT of going through recruitment. It's funny, being Greek on that campus is like being a member of any other club... except that you're sometimes frowned upon. Most people could care less, though, who is and isn't Greek.

Perhaps "standard" recruitment would make sense for smaller schools, who can spend more time getting to know each PNM during the parties- after all, if you're only voting/whatevering on 20-30 women, you get to know them all. You really do. Or, at least, we did.

I was a Rho Chi one year and we had the HARDEST time getting freshmen interested during first term. We would have events in the dorm lounges (common for our campus) like mani/pedi night, movie, game night, etc- we were lucky if 2 people showed up. I actually wound up dropping out of being a Rho Chi and we replaced me with someone who had been studying abroad first term. The sad thing is that we don't think any of the freshmen noticed that I was on the chapter side (as President instead of a disaffiliated Rho Chi) or that she hadn't been around first term. Perhaps it's just an apathetic issue with my school (also had relatively low school spirit in the sport realm). I don't know. But deferred recruitment certainly didn't feel like it was helping sustain the Greek system.

Or OUT of love. They get to see them warts & all, not just prettied up for rush. No group can have every member be totally perfect for an entire semester/year.

Also consider that there are women who get to college who say NWIH are they interested in sororities, but then get to know the members personally over a semester or so and reconsider. Not to mention there are still 1st gen college students out there who if they HAD to rush first semester, would have no clue what they were doing.

I agree with Zillini that if you have a huge physical plant to sustain, unless you do some sort of giant switcheroo as far as housing terms are concerned, you kind of have to do the first semester thing.

@thetygerlily...if freshmen talk themselves out of rushing, or think that it's unnecessary because they've found other activities...they probably would have been crappy members anyway. Stop worrying about the freshmen and reach out to the upperclassmen who've been around a while and feel like they're lacking something. Quota of 6 at a school that small is nothing to sneeze at...considering at one state school near here, their quota was less than that, and they have 13,000 students.

Coming from a school with a strong Greek system, strong chapters (everyone's pretty close to total right now, and everyone's made quota for 2 years straight) and deferred recruitment, I'm all for it. There are stringent rules in place to discourage dirty rushing, and Fall Term can be just plain WEIRD with all the rush dates and having to make sure upperclassmen aren't giving alcohol to freshmen (can't even pass them the keg tap), and while it can encourage tent talk, it also gives the smaller chapters a chance to get to know the women, to be visible on campus, etc. It won't work for all systems, but for us it worked well. I think about half the girls wouldn't rush if it were the first week of classes, so that would change everything.

ETA: As to housing, sophomores are required to live on campus, so that's the year everyone lives in the house. Also, deferred rush gives "grade risk" more meaning, and you don't have to worry about "competitiveness" of high school GPAs.

I disagree with the crappy members statement. I almost didn't go through because there was a large "you don't need that" mentality, and I hope I've not been a crappy member. Many women who do go through do so because one or two people talked them into it (myself included; if I hadn't met one particular person I might not have gone through). How much would change if recruitment happened first term? I honestly don't know. But I would be surprised if it had lower turnouts. As for reaching out to upperclassmen, we did. In my initiation class, 4 of 11 were sophomores (we were one of the super huge years... the following year was just 4). And COR during the other two terms usually resulted in 2-4 upperclassmen per year. Rushing as an upperclassmen had no ill effect on one's chances through formal or informal.

ETA: I wish I had kept a journal my freshman year. I'd love to look back on my actual thoughts at the time rather than several years later. I have one from sophomore on... but that's just not the same! I'm insanely jealous of people who can look back on their rush experiences and other events and see their in-the-moment thoughts. They should put "keep a journal" in the freshmen orientation booklets!

But you DID go through. That's my point. I honestly believe that people who let themselves be talked out of things want to be talked out of them (and vice versa)...yes even at age 18.

I didn't mean that upperclassmen had a disadvantage, I meant that worrying how many "out of 350 freshmen" went through rush or signed a bid card isn't getting you anywhere. Just keep reaching out to all students.

Why can't NPC think outside the box? Let campuses do what works for them including:

- Do away with any kind of "silence" rules. Allow rushees to meet and get to know the women they may join.
- Let rush take place over several weeks - one party per week - instead of over several days. Why encourage superficiality?
- Eliminate mandatory cuts. Cut who and as many/few as you want.
- Allow women to receive multiple bids. Eliminate bid matching. Women who get more than one bid will simply have to make a choice.

Yes, I know many think "the way we've always done it" works. If it does for a campus, so be it. But requiring all campuses to follow the same set of rules seems ludicrous. Better yet, IMO, would be to adopt the IFC rush model.

Your suggestions would kill the sorority system.I guess if the idea of one or two exclusive chapters per campus, and fewer women having the opportunity of membership is what you are going for, it would be an improvement. Otherwise, nope.

If by "mandatory cuts" you mean the new NPC return system, let me point out that it IS thinking outside the box, for the benefit of chapters and pnm. Campus after campus has reported more girls pledge, and more chapters achieve quota and total. Win/win. It is NOT the "way it has always been" by any means. It is an educated response to legitimate concerns.

As for campus variations, NPC offers more than one recruitment model - so they are already responding to the needs of individual campuses. Formal recruitment is NOT for every campus - thus the options.

The IFC model is a recipe for disaster - you need only look at the vast number of chapters who are constantly closing on various campuses to see it doesn't achieve what the NPC system tries to acomplish.

For the vast majority of women the current system WORKS. Improvements? Yes - we should always try to improve. But we don't want to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

It also eliminates chapters inviting back women they have absolutely NO intention of giving a bid to, who they are inviting simply for the purpose of pumping up the chapter's ego and having bragging rights. "We had 300 PNMs at our pref parties and ABC sorority only had 100!" If you want to hear anti-Greek sentiment, all you have to do is talk to some of the ladies who were led down this road.

Ummm...they do this already. Schools with small systems do more COB type recruitment styles, but try doing this with 900 PNMs going to more than 10 chapters. It would be chaos, and it would never work. Each PHC gets to choose the recruitment method that works best for their campus. Don't knock it unless you really know how the system works. Try giving out multiple bids to more than a hundred women and see if anyone can figure out how many bids each chapter should give out. We all know that you had a different recruitment experience. It's great that it worked for your campus. That doesn't mean it would work for the majority of campuses.

Ah, but remember, my suggestion allows for plenty of interaction between members and PNMs first semester, especially in a Panhellenic environment. First semester is an opportunity for struggling/lower tier/weaker/smaller/whatever to go out and meet PNMs in their classes, activities, dorms, etc. Person to person interaction is what gets women to join. So, while some PNMs may fall in love with top groups, there will be PNMs that will love smaller chapters for the women in them.

On this, I completely agree with you. Probably because my campus hasn't had dirty rushing problems, at least not really bad.
I prefer deferred recruitment instead of dragging out the process.

2 weeks (if rush is during school) isn't bad. "Several" weeks (like a month or so) would be torture for all. Not to mention effing up Homecoming in a major way.