Should you join a "lower tier" sorority?
 

I'd like to suggest a new sticky (if the powers-that-be think it worthwhile) with a discussion about how PNMs should think through the possibility of joining a lower tier sorority.

I know there are people on Greek Chat who object to this concept, but it is a reality on many campuses. And even if there aren't distinctive tiers, there are frequently chapters that are seen as "less desirable".

I believe it never occurs to a lot of PNMs that they could end up with their only options being chapters that they normally wouldn't consider. They all think they are going to get a "top" house. And then since they haven't thought through it ahead of time, they withdraw from recruitment and that is the end. If even some of them learned from a thread like this while they are researching sororities, it would be time well spent for all of us here.

I think it would be helpful if people shared their personal stories, linked to past recruitment stories that illustrate women being very happy and successful in lower tier chapters, etc. It is fine to address the potential downsides as well since that is something to take into consideration. But there are so many great stories told here in other threads about women who pledged the "lesser" house and ended up very happy. Or stories of women who joined a lower tier group that turned around in a few short years and is now a top group on campus.

Thoughts? :)

When I rushed, oh so many years ago, I was "only" able to join the Jewish sorority. This was considered the lowest house.

Many years later, and adding more and dear friends as well, when I was undergoing chemo for breast cancer, my sisters and friends came overon a regular basis. They brought food and yes, held me up when I was vomiting.

I consider my sisters to be the highest of the top tier.

I helped found a local sorority that affiliated with Kappa shortly after that. If I hadn't taken a chance to do that, our campus wouldn't have formed Panhellenic. We only had 15 actives when we held our first formal recruitment, but we got 13 new members (plus 2 or 3 more through COB) and doubled the chapter! Many of those girls have held offices, and the chapter now has about 50 members.

I know my chapter is still smaller than the other Panhellenic sorority on campus, but we've grown significantly and made huge changes to our campus and the Greek community. My sisters are goofy and amazing, and I love them dearly. I'm now involved with another chapter (as an alumna) on their House Board, because I want to keep helping this wonderful organization that has given me so much.

I held an office for three years, and I know it helped me tremendously with my public speaking, delegation, and organizational skills. I don't know if I would have had the same opportunities in a larger group.

It matters what you consider "lower tier".

Is "lower tier" a less-wealthy group?
Is "lower tier" a less conventionally beautiful group?

What is "lower tier" but campus gossip?

If you don't want to belong to a house where the sisters care about each other, more power go you. If you'd rather let someone else tell you what's "good", please don't come to my organization.

No sorority is "lower tier" to its true members.

I think Trideltsallie's point is to help people understand that despite a rumor or gossip or unfair designation put upon a particular group, the group has merit. Is doesn't matter why someone is considered lower tier - because the fact is the group is perceived as lower tier by pnms.

And she very clearly points out, and accurately, that despite the best panhellenic spirited efforts, tiers do exist. Let's not argue tiers, not the who,what, where or why of them. (that has been done before, ad nauseum)

Let's, for the sake of pnms' who come on here looking for help, discuss what she has proposed. Good start, ellebud and Lucykkg.

I'd say do it, but I don't believe in tiers. At some schools being in any sorority is better than being in NO sorority. I'd choose a sorority people badmouth because they are immature over no sorority any day, but I'd also go where I want because I kind of don't care what other people think as long as I'm doing what is best for me.

However a good life lesson is to not let other people control your happiness and life, and joining a sorority where you feel at home and happy regardless of other people's insecurities (which is pretty much where the ideas of tiers comes from or people wouldn't talk about it) is going to serve you better in the long run than being in a sorority because other people perceive it as better.

After college (and even during) it really doesn't matter. If someone out of college is that hung up on your letters that should be a hint to what their priorities are (or aren't).

I don't think this needs to be a sticky at all. :rolleyes: A regular thread is more than ample. (I just love when people nominate themselves for stickydom.)

Automatically assuming that smallest group = lowest tier simply is not true at every single college, just as largest group does not always equal top sorority or fraternity. Sometimes the largest group is the subject of derision for "bidding anything that moves." Same with house condition, amount of money, looks, grades, etc. It is truly a campus by campus basis and at many places if you asked why PQR is thought of as the "most popular" group, you couldn't get a concrete answer.

There are some colleges where if you are in what is perceived as a "lower tier" sorority, your social options are significantly curtailed. I won't bump it because it pissed people off, but there was a post on here explaining this concept at UF. It made a lot of people understand why a girl would be wary of joining a not-as-popular group.

But there are also colleges where your social life, regardless of your sorority, is what YOU make it, not what letters you are wearing. If you let your Greek group either hinder you or you coast on its appeal, you're digging your own grave. If you say "I can't go to the Sigma Chi house because I'm an XYZ, and we just don't hang out with them, we aren't good enough" - that's YOUR issue. And if the Sigma Chis do truly believe that, why would you want to hang out with them? Conversely, if you have people asking you out or presenting you with opportunities simply because you're an ABC and they want the prestige of association with an ABC - NOT with you as a person - your life after college is going to be a jumbo box of suck.

Your letters do not define you. You define your letters.

33girl - You are always welcome at the Sigma Chi house. ;)

Thanks :) no place I would rather be!!!

If you are truly happy in your sorority, who cares if others consider it "lower tier"?

PNMs: Keep in mind that you are never obligated to do anything in FR until you receive a bid (assuming you do receive a bid). If you get your invites and you find that all the sororities you think of as "top tier" have cut you, it won't hurt you to go back to the sororities that did invite you. Who knows - you may find an awesome connection with a chapter you wouldn't otherwise have considered. If you attend pref parties and then don't feel you've really clicked with the chapter(s) you preffed, just don't sign a pref card.

Would you mind PMing it to me? I'm interested in reading that.

I think I missed the UF thread too.

I doubt that we need to discuss why not to join a lower tier house since those thoughts are probably already present in a PNM's mind, but I think offering reasons why, despite a lack of immediate popularity boost, joining a "lower tier" group can still be worthwhile.

My first reason is that members of "lower tier" groups enjoy their Greek experience. Even though it may not wow your friends from home when they see your letters, your college experience is likely to be enriched over not joining a GLO at all.

We probably kid ourselves about the number of women who find themselves honestly deliberating, should I join the commonly viewed #1 group on campus or the bottom group, where I can make a big difference. Instead, PNMs looking at the bottom tier have limited options, and it would typically be pointless to imagine that one is going to hold out and later receive a bid from a "top" group.

You should join a lower group to be part of a sisterhood, to experience being greek, and to be part of an alumnae network for the rest of your life.

Additionally, you should be aware that at many campuses with hard work and dedication towards recruitment, lower tier groups can become middle tier groups with a couple of pledge classes. You can have the satisfaction of working hard to enrich the experience that you will offer to the young women who follow in your footsteps. It may be a lot closer to the experience of being one of our founders than many sisters at strong chapters experience.

ETA: this really just repeats what others have said well, and I apologize for that. I agree that joining a "lower tier" house is still worthwhile and want to lend my support for that. I will say that sharing personal experience in a thread called "should you join a lower tier sorority" is a little complicated because matching usernames and chapters may serve to reinforce the tent talk. I don't know how much it really helps in the long run.

Exactly.

Sometimes, I think a PNM will pref on group that's a little different than her other two, but generally, your tier options are all about the same.

The choice is low tier or don't be greek, not low tier or higher tier, for most PNMs.

Ah, but many PNMs don't realize this.

At my school this has been happening more an more frequently since 2007. It's kinda interesting too.

I've discussed this with friends from home who go to other schools (some are greek, some are not) and most of the time they always say that the houses that are thought to be "lower" always seem to have the best sisterhood.
I think that a lot of times the "higher" ranked houses let that status get to their heads, as a result, everything (sisterhood, friendships, conversations, and interactions with the rest of the greek community, etc.) tend to be pretty fake and often those houses have major problems with b*tchiness.
It's pretty interesting to look at from an outsiders position, as well as assessing it on your own campus.

**I just wanted to say (especially for PNMs) that this doesn't mean that's how it always works, it's just what I've observed at a few schools

This has been said, but it's worth reiterating - if join XYZ when you really wanted ABC, and if you are going to spend the next four years comparing the two, dissing ABC and acting miserable at XYZ, then don't waste your time (or XYZ's time). If you feel like you can suck it up, learn to love XYZ and work to make your experience great, then go for it. I'm a very big believer in your experience being what you make it.

When I was a freshman, my chapter was really struggling. The other three groups were hovering around 100, while Kappa was hovering around 40. During recruitment, it seemed like everybody got invited back to Kappa, and everybody was talking about how ugly/fat/awkward all the sisters were. They were really sweet and genuine, though, and that's why I joined despite the fact that they were not my original first choice. On Bid Day, my pledge class was less than 1/4 the size of the other groups'. But I think the recruitment chair did a fantastic job, because almost every girl in my pledge class went on hold an officer position every year. Right now, our President, two of our VPs, and a bunch of other important officers are from that class. There weren't many of us, but I think we really turned the chapter around. A lot of times, that's all it takes.

In recent years, we've pledged several girls who were originally pledges of what most would consider the top two hottest/most popular/most desired groups on campus. The first time around, they were ecstatic because on Bid Day, they had managed to receive a highly coveted bid from the groups that were every PNM's dream. But they were quickly discovered how unhappy they were - they didn't fit in, and they found that the sisters were very different than they had seemed during recruitment. They dropped out, waited a year, and re-rushed. They've been very happy with us.

And to be fair, we've had girls who weren't happy with us. One girl in my pledge class freely admitted to me (on Bid Day!) that she was only pledging because Kappa was (in her eyes) the strongest nationally of the four on campus, and since she was going into the corporate world, she needed the connections after graduation. She didn't make any effort to connect with her pledge class, attend chapter events or get involved at all. She got one of her friends to COB and pledge with her so she wouldn't have to suffer through it alone (ironically, those two girls no longer speak - and the friend she dragged to COB is now a chapter VP and Panhellenic President!). Anyway, she lasted less than a year before realizing that you just can't coast through membership without doing anything, and is no longer a member.

We've had a few other girls join us because they just wanted to be Greek - they didn't get their top choice and they just wanted some letters. Some changed and grew to love it (after a few weeks of sulking), and one or two never did. They stuck with it, but didn't contribute much or get much out of it. Those are the cases that are really unfortunate.

I guess my main point is, again, your experience is what you make it.

^^^Fantastic post!!!

I agree that RFM seems to be affecting the pref night results regarding high/low diversity.With those heavy first round cuts, a pnm can end up with a range of choices with regard to tier/size. Maybe this lends itself to more "If I don't get my first choice, I will drop" hysteria?

You'd be surprised. I was in a smaller house (I refuse to call us lower tier because we were awesome.. just small) on campus and the girls we preffed were oftentimes also preffing the "top" houses on campus. Now unfortunately some girls did that on purpose because we had a great location and they did it to make their pref night easier, but there were others who had us and 2 other "top" houses and they were considering all 3.

They probably have been described as most popular, even if the word tier wasn't used.

This doesn't crop up for guys, though, does it? When I think of my own alma mater, the composition of fraternities seemed to be based more on common denominators such as being on the same teams or just being a bunch of similar guys who liked hanging out with each other, not what other people thought of them.

I wouldn't say we sit around and talk about it, but I think sisters do have a definite feel for how popular each group is, or what kind of girls each group attracts. We only have three groups now, so there's not much to debate... and I guess one group by itself can't be a "tier".

Maybe it's just my campus, but the fraternities here bash each other waaaay more than the sororities do. They're really competitive about creating "tiers" and hating on certain groups. There are basically a few "top tier" groups that throw the biggest parties, a bunch of "middle tier" groups that are pretty diverse and tend to attract guys based on who actually gets along best, and a few "bottom tier" groups that tend to be new, small and/or not have a specific sports team associated with them. We have a fraternity colonizing right now and the other fraternity guys are just vicious in degrading them... it's very catty and low, in my opinion. I think they're just worried they'll steal pledges from them and they think bashing them is the best way to maintain their position.

The question as to whether anyone will rank a "less" desirable (whatever that ultimately means) above a top tier house: My daughter did all the way through. She had solid reasons for choosing what she did. At her university all the chapters are good, no kidding. Two are smaller. But my daughter felt that one "top" house had a vibe that she wasn't going to join. I am being VERY vague on purpose.

Yes, she was "lucky" that she wasn't cut from her choices and she ultimately made the decision. But if she had received her number 2 house she still would have been thrilled...and walked by the houses that she felt didn't match who she is as a person.

I'd say this. There's one group on my campus nicknamed "Visa Discover Mastercard" even by non-greeks because they are thought to take only rich women.

Not true, 'cause I was invited for pref there and I am very, very far from rich, but it's still the reputation they have.

I don't think anyone ever talks about tiers, but people think in terms of them.

Talking about it just isn't classy and most sorority women are classy. ;) at least that's what I like to think!
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In response to the "Should you join", I think if you feel at home who cares what "tier" it is. Yes, you may not be looked at as the most popular group on campus. But, you'll have real friends, not just girls who wear the same letters as you.

IMHO, size doesn't matter. Some girls LIKE smaller groups. My chapter is about 30 women and I adore it. I know everyone really well. I earned a leadership position right away. My candidate class helped transformed our chapter through our dedication and creativity. I love my chapter and my sisters, even if we have 90 fewer girls than every other house on campus.

Finally, the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. One year, we had a girl who went through spring recruitment who turned down a bid. She went through Formal in the fall and got a bid to a well-established house on campus, who was part of our Homecoming group for that year. We talked a lot during float making (she was a really nice girl so there were no hard feelings!) and she mentioned once how she had no idea who was in her new member class let alone in her chapter! She'd see a girl on the street with XYZ letters and not recognize her. "I wish I would have accepted that bid," she mentioned, "so I could know everyone".

She is now very, very happy in XYZ and on their Exec Board, so it has a happy ending. You just always think life is better in the bigger, more popular chapters- and that isn't always the case. It is what is best, personally, for you. For me, a small chapter is perfect!

Whenever I read the posts from PNMs who say they're disappointed by their list of invites or their bid, I wish they would take some advice from Mike Damone of Fast Times at Ridgemont High: "Act like whevever you are, that's the place to be." But by act I don't mean pretend but behave: feel confident that where you are (anywhere in life) is probably pretty darn good. If you like butterscotch ripple when most people around you like chocolate, well, feel like butterscotch ripple IS actually the cool ice cream.

I'll go ahead and say this (not knowing what people have said):

It depends on your motives for joining a sorority. Is your motive primarily to have sisterhood or to be a part of the social elite and throw rad parties? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the social elite who throw rad parties don't have sisterhood. But if your primary goal is to have sisterhood I would say that joining a "lower tier" sorority is okay.

I COB'd so I got to know girls in different organizations and chose the one where I felt more at "home." However if I was going through recruitment with my 18 year old attitude, I often wonder if I would have chosen another house. I think it depends on the person and what they want (and their maturity level).

One of my absolute favorite quotes I read on this board deals with this...I want to say it was 33girl but if not then I am sorry that I forgot who said it. It went: "Guys think they make the fraternity and girls think the sorority makes them."

Tiers for guys are just as established as tiers for girls on a year to year basis. But I feel like guys are infinitely more likely to join a lower tier house where they click with the guys and then work their butts off to turn it around. Whereas girls, even the ones who work hard for their sororities, don't really see it that way. At my alma mater, the fraternity tiers completely re-shifted in the 4 years I was there, while the sorority tiers didn't even budge. I think if girls took the "guy" mentality more often during rush, you would see more dynamic changes in sorority reputations.

I do not agree whatsoever with the statement that said that top tier chapters are less close, disorganized, etc. There are clicks and internal problems in EVERY sorority chapter over 7-8 members. There are "top tier" chapters with great sisterhoods and "bottom tier" chapters with terrible sisterhoods, so be careful making blanket statements. That is just as un-Panhellenic as making fun of "lower tier" houses.

And lastly, at my campus in the last few years there HAVE been many girls who have been in the position deciding between a top tier and a "lower tier". With top tier sororities required to make huge cuts early on, and enough legacies, recs and "high-school friends" who are going to make that first cut, cuts can be severe. We were always competitive in recruitment, and we had many girls who preffed our biggest competitors, but also many women that were cut by the other really competitive chapters. And I remember seeing our competitor's pledge classes and recognizing half the names, and for the other half I'd be like "Who is this girl? I don't even remember her coming through!" I even know of one girl that ended up at the "best" sorority, and she had been cut by every other sorority within the first few days except for the "worst"...and she was not a legacy and had no connections that I know of. I think the new release figures are making this phenomenon much more common than it used to be.

ETA: I am familiar enough with a couple west coast schools that had rush threads posted on this board, and PMed them (haha, I know everybody hates when people mention PMs) asking for the codes. The PNMs at these schools tended to have surprisingly varied rushes...being dropped from lower tier houses on the first day only to end up in "top tier" houses, preffing drastically different sororities, etc. So this is definitely a common thing at Pac 10 schools, but I can't say anything about other regions. I think it could probably ring true for SEC as well, but I am not that familiar with those campuses.

I dunno.

At my SEC school, it's like the "tiers" are set in concrete reinforced by rebar and encased in steel. The top, middle, and lower tiers, with just a tiny bit of shifting within tiers, are the same now as they were in 1971.

It doesn't seem to matter what women do or achieve, they don't change.

And Panhellenic has traditionally been all about enforcing that. Informally, of course.

while searching for the UF thread (i didn't find it) i found the controversial thread from bamadad with the PM about Dz. this sickened me. i know it is not recent and maybe shouldn't be brought up again but i am really appauled (sp?)

We don't know what that particular poster who got on BamaDad's ass was smoking, but none of what she said was accurate (i.e. saying DZ was a teachers' sorority, etc).

I looked up the "offending thread" and was, of course, appalled. Sickening! But there was something really off- not just off-putting- about it. You've heard of "drunk dialing"? Well, I suspect drunk posting, judging from all of the misspellings and grammatical errors. Also, the tone...I was half suspecting to hear about sequin pantyhose and "that one thing" from the poster addressing bamadad.

I thought this too about my SEC campus, but I'm realizing it might not be the case. One group that was bottom tier when I was in school is solidly middle now, I think. And there's been some shifting in terms of the popularity of some of the middle and upper tier groups.

I think a lot of it has to do with changes at UGA. I think high achieving suburban Atlanta public school kids are playing a much bigger role in the system than they used to, and they elevated some groups that were middle when I was there and some of the really southern traditional groups suffered a little. I'm not sure the mobility would have occurred without this big shift because of the HOPE grant. But I think a lot of the SEC schools are experiencing similar changes, if on a smaller scale. If you're pulling more out of state kids, they aren't going to have 20+ years of a group's bad hometown rep to deal with, IMO.

I think it's still hard to take a lower tier group and somehow turn things around in one four year window.

And anyway, even if your low tier is forever, it's probably still worth being a member.

On a different note: even if girls are preffing a low and a high group, I think the number who don't list the high group first are a small percentage. The decision might be, do I list and accept a low tier bid if I get it instead. But I don't think girls are saying with any frequency, "I'm turning down #1 for #15.

Oh, I certainly agree with you. One thing I've learned as an alumna is that among alumnae, tiers don't matter. The important thing is that you're a member of a GLO, and share similar experiences.

Now, some here say that your choice of group determines who'll you'll associate with and how you'll be perceived. Granted, I can see this among certain folks in certain communities (think bluebloods of Birmingham, Mobile, Atlanta etc.) But not in my little city.

I rushed three locals at my college. The "best" did not offer me a bid for membership which I was crushed for about a day or two then one of the other two did. They were the heavy, less attractive party girls. I loved what I saw but I didn't want to be in a local. Had I joined, I would have pledged a local hard then affiiliated with PSS a year later. Great group but at the time I would not have known that.

I wound up seeing three groups during expansion, our choices were DZ, DPhiE and AOII. We chose DPhiE. To some that might be insane but it was the right group meeting with the right reps from HQ/extension team. We clicked.

Would we have been better off with another group? We'll never know but we absolutely loved every minute of our undergrad (and for me alumna) careers.

You do have to look down the IIKA! (kidding)