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-   -   Chapter Quota vs. Chapter Total (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=107727)

pnm1 09-28-2009 04:14 AM

Chapter Quota vs. Chapter Total
 
What determines each? I've searched around, but haven't found a straight answer that makes sense to me. Thanks!

APhi4Ever 09-28-2009 07:48 AM

Someone please correct me if I am wrong

Quota is determined by each individual recruitment. For example, if there are 4 chapters and 100 women go to Preference, quota will be 100/4=25. That means each chapter can take 25 women.

Chapter total is determined by each campus's Panhellenic (if there is one). If chapter total is 100, that means all chapters should be at or above that size. However, there are usually chapters below, at, or above chapter total.

Examples:
Chapter A: 75 members before formal recruitment, took quota of 25, they are now at chapter total of 100.

Chapter B: 60 members before formal recruitment, took quota of 25, they now have 85 members and can have continuous open recruitment events for another 15 women to get closer or at chapter total.

Chapter C: 90 members before formal recruitment, took quota of 25, they now have 115 members and cannot take anymore women because they exceed chapter total by 15 women.

KSUViolet06 09-28-2009 07:50 AM

These are the most simple explanations I can give you.

Quota = the amount of new members that each chapter can take during formal recruitment. It is generally determined by the number of PNMs participating and the number of chapters participating.

Example: if there are 40 PNMs and 4 sororities, quota is 10. (40 divided by 4 = 10).

Total is the MAX number of women a chapter can have at any given time. This is generally set by a Panhellenic vote. Example: I believe total at Bama is 200 women.

A chapter can meet quota during formal, but still not be at total.

ETA: Ahi4Ever is good.

gatordeltapgh 09-28-2009 09:54 PM

Quota is no longer determined by taking the PNMs registered or attending preference and dividing by the number of chapters on that campus.

I know this reply seems nit-picky but many campuses I work with try to use the old equation to figure out quota. Rumors get started and there is confusion about who got quota, who didn't etc all based on old info.

The old average equation will give you a rough estimate but quota is set by first determining the weighted average of PNMs who sign their preference card & membership acceptance binding agreement (every campus should use this!) over the past three years. The most recent year is given the highest weight. This equation gives you an estimated quota number. Then you take into account + or - a withdraw rate to determine the lower and upper end of a quota range. Once every PNM has signed their MRABA and all chapters have turned in their bid list the fraternity/sorority advisor matches the bids by hand or a computer program to determine the exact quota number where the most PNMs are placed and the most chapters make quota. If your campuses uses RFM then the RFM Specialties works with the fraternity/sorority advisor to determine the best outcome.

When I joined we used the old equation so we knew what quota might by knowing how many PNMs were attending recruitment. Now quota is selected at the end of the process once the best result has been determined.

33girl 09-28-2009 10:01 PM

This doesn't sound like a good change. What if the number of PNMs had a sudden rise or fall with the current year as opposed to the previous years? I mean if rush usually has 300 girls going through and one year it goes down to 200, isn't setting quota based on the previous years going to screw some sororities? It seems like a way for the most popular chapters to get even bigger and vice versa.

gatordeltapgh 09-28-2009 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 1852079)
This doesn't sound like a good change. What if the number of PNMs had a sudden rise or fall with the current year as opposed to the previous years? I mean if rush usually has 300 girls going through and one year it goes down to 200, isn't setting quota based on the previous years going to screw some sororities? It seems like a way for the most popular chapters to get even bigger and vice versa.

I think it is a good change because quota is based on the amount of women actually signing their MRABA and completing the process. The old system did not take into account women dropping out at the last minute. Now you can take a look at how many women match and how many chapters make quota at each number in the quota range and pick the number that has the best outcome. Once quota has been determined quota additions can be used to place additional women who completed the process in good faith with chapters that did the same.

I think that RFM campuses are the most successful because they have a partner working with them every step of the way who can react to sudden changed in retention.

Of course the old method is much easier! :D

33girl 09-29-2009 12:16 AM

You mean the old system went by number of women invited to pref, and if they dropped out before pref or before signing a bid card they were still "included" in quota calculations?

I can see where getting them out of the mix would be beneficial, but if groups aren't using the RFM like they should be and there is a drastic drop from previous years, it could really be a cluster.

pnm1 09-29-2009 01:21 AM

How do you find out Chapter total? Ask Panhellenic?

APhi4Ever 09-29-2009 09:10 AM

Yes or if someone in your chapter knows.

AXOrushadvisor 09-29-2009 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gatordeltapgh (Post 1852109)
I think it is a good change because quota is based on the amount of women actually signing their MRABA and completing the process. The old system did not take into account women dropping out at the last minute. Now you can take a look at how many women match and how many chapters make quota at each number in the quota range and pick the number that has the best outcome. Once quota has been determined quota additions can be used to place additional women who completed the process in good faith with chapters that did the same.

I think that RFM campuses are the most successful because they have a partner working with them every step of the way who can react to sudden changed in retention.

Of course the old method is much easier! :D

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't it also take into account the Chapters last 3 years and what they did statistically? We have been using RFM on our campus for several years and the biggest thing I have seen is the Chapters being more alike in size then they used to be. I'm also finding much more well balanced new member classes (although that may not be a function of RFM) The other positive I find from RFM is it seems like a lot more women are place both through the recruitment process and quota additions.

MaggieXi 09-29-2009 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pnm1 (Post 1852200)
How do you find out Chapter total? Ask Panhellenic?

Yes, or ask your Pi Chi (Rho Chi, Rho Gamma, or whatever your recruitment counselors are called) if you've been given one.

KSUViolet06 09-29-2009 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaggieXi (Post 1852256)
Yes, or ask your Pi Chi (Rho Chi, Rho Gamma, or whatever your recruitment counselors are called) if you've been given one.

According to her posts in the Alpha Phi forum, pnm1 is already in a sorority.

TSteven 09-29-2009 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gatordeltapgh (Post 1852071)
Quota is no longer determined by taking the PNMs registered or attending preference and dividing by the number of chapters on that campus.

I know this reply seems nit-picky but many campuses I work with try to use the old equation to figure out quota. Rumors get started and there is confusion about who got quota, who didn't etc all based on old info.

The old average equation will give you a rough estimate but quota is set by first determining the weighted average of PNMs who sign their preference card & membership acceptance binding agreement (every campus should use this!) over the past three years. The most recent year is given the highest weight. This equation gives you an estimated quota number. Then you take into account + or - a withdraw rate to determine the lower and upper end of a quota range. Once every PNM has signed their MRABA and all chapters have turned in their bid list the fraternity/sorority advisor matches the bids by hand or a computer program to determine the exact quota number where the most PNMs are placed and the most chapters make quota. If your campuses uses RFM then the RFM Specialties works with the fraternity/sorority advisor to determine the best outcome.

When I joined we used the old equation so we knew what quota might by knowing how many PNMs were attending recruitment. Now quota is selected at the end of the process once the best result has been determined.

As I understand it, most/all NPCs put their first bid list in alphabetical order. If the chapter turns in their bid lists *prior* to the final quota being determined, is the number of PNMs on the first bid list based on the *lowest* possible quota?

lyrelyre 09-29-2009 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TSteven (Post 1852335)
As I understand it, most/all NPCs put their first bid list in alphabetical order. If the chapter turns in their bid lists *prior* to the final quota being determined, is the number of PNMs on the first bid list based on the *lowest* possible quota?

Yes

gatordeltapgh 09-29-2009 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AXOrushadvisor (Post 1852235)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't it also take into account the Chapters last 3 years and what they did statistically? We have been using RFM on our campus for several years and the biggest thing I have seen is the Chapters being more alike in size then they used to be. I'm also finding much more well balanced new member classes (although that may not be a function of RFM) The other positive I find from RFM is it seems like a lot more women are place both through the recruitment process and quota additions.

That is exactly why RFM was created and how it should influence a campus over time. Of course the chapters must still work hard to recruit women and PNMs should maximize their options.

I know that there takes some adjustment in thinking but when properly utilized over time RFM will increase the amount of chapters that reach quota and the number of PNMs who receive bids. I am glad to hear your school has been so successful with RFM!

lyrelyre 09-29-2009 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 1852079)
This doesn't sound like a good change. What if the number of PNMs had a sudden rise or fall with the current year as opposed to the previous years? I mean if rush usually has 300 girls going through and one year it goes down to 200, isn't setting quota based on the previous years going to screw some sororities? It seems like a way for the most popular chapters to get even bigger and vice versa.

Quota is not set using the last three year's hard numbers. It is set using an average of the percentages from the last three years. The percentages are then used to set target release numbers, size of flex list, and quota range. Thus, an abnormally large or small recruitment can still be managed.

33girl 09-29-2009 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyrelyre (Post 1852455)
Quota is not set using the last three year's hard numbers. It is set using an average of the percentages from the last three years. The percentages are then used to set target release numbers, size of flex list, and quota range. Thus, an abnormally large or small recruitment can still be managed.

Oh OK, that makes more sense. I think. So in other words, if 50% of 300 rushees at a 10 sorority school signed bid cards in 2008, and quota was 15, then even if there are only 200 rushees the next year, you're also going to assume only 100 of them will sign cards and quota will be 10. (Sorry if all the numbers are confusing) IMO that is assuming a lot.

I don't know, I just think quota should be what is happening THAT YEAR, period. Plus if you're using release figures, it should be weeding out the people who wanted ABC and only ABC. In other words, IMO again, using release figures correctly should kind of be eliminating the need for quotas at all. The girls should be over their unrealistic expectations and know pretty much where they are ending up by pref. And the sororities should have gotten rid of the girls they have no intention of bidding.

Zillini 09-29-2009 09:08 PM

Because I'm lazy :)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Zillini (Post 1847688)
The computer system doesn't just "know" what to set Quota at. Panhellenic runs different Quota scenarios (#'s) within the range through the computer system to see the possible results. For example Panhellenic may plug in the lowest possible range number of Quota = X and analyze those results. They look at how many chapters would make Quota, how many would miss Quota, and how many PNMs would not get a bid at all (but might be eligible for Quota Additions if they maximized their options). Then they run it with Quota = X+1, then X+2, etc.

The final Quota number selected is the one where the most Chapters achieve Quota and the most PNMs receive bids through matching. Then Quota Additions are determined.


lyrelyre 09-29-2009 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 33girl (Post 1852473)
Oh OK, that makes more sense. I think. So in other words, if 50% of 300 rushees at a 10 sorority school signed bid cards in 2008, and quota was 15, then even if there are only 200 rushees the next year, you're also going to assume only 100 of them will sign cards and quota will be 10. (Sorry if all the numbers are confusing) IMO that is assuming a lot.

I don't know, I just think quota should be what is happening THAT YEAR, period. Plus if you're using release figures, it should be weeding out the people who wanted ABC and only ABC. In other words, IMO again, using release figures correctly should kind of be eliminating the need for quotas at all. The girls should be over their unrealistic expectations and know pretty much where they are ending up by pref. And the sororities should have gotten rid of the girls they have no intention of bidding.

That is close to what happens, but not exactly. I misspoke, what is set by those percentages is “quota range.” Quota range is set after the PNMs preferences have been entered into the computer. PNMs that withdraw, whether before or after preference parties, are not considered. The computer is also able to account for the choices of the PNMs. The computer “knows” that of the PNMs that attended ABC 50% ranked it first, 30% ranked it second, and 18% ranked it third; 90% of those at DEF ranked it first, 10% ranked it second and none ranked it third; and 75% of those at GHI ranked it first, 20% ranked it second and 4% ranked it third; etc… This is why the RFM allows for different chapters to invite back different numbers of PNMs. A chapter that traditionally has 90% of PNMs listing it first on their preference cards will not need as many attending its preference round to make quota. There is, however, some “padding” built into the figures. In theory, if XYZ has 100% returns every round and 100% of PNMs list XYZ first on their preference card, that chapter would have to cut down to projected quota the first invitational round. In actuality, this is not what happens. The system takes into account the possibility that a chapter will have a less or more successful recruitment and allows for that with flex lists.

So, in your example, the quota range would be set using the last three years’ average percentages. For ease, let’s say that is 50% (50% in 2008, 53% in 2007, and 47% in 2006, but again that is assuming the same number of PNMs each year). Now, if a PNM declines to attend preference round or declines to sign a preference card, she will not be considered in the quota range (for ease let’s say 20 PNMs withdraw prior to signing their preference card). The chapters on this campus would likely be told that quota range is 9-18. They would have 9 PNMs on their first bid list in alphabetical order and the remainder in preferential order on a second list. Thus, if this campus’s placement rate increased, even dramatically, RFM would make it possible to place every PNM who maximized her options.

With RFM, quota range is what is happening that year. It simply uses the prior three years as statistically instructive to structure invitations, flex lists, and quota range.

I’m sorry if this isn’t very clear. It can be a confusing thing to explain, but I’m always happy to try.

AXOrushadvisor 09-29-2009 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gatordeltapgh (Post 1852398)
That is exactly why RFM was created and how it should influence a campus over time. Of course the chapters must still work hard to recruit women and PNMs should maximize their options.

I know that there takes some adjustment in thinking but when properly utilized over time RFM will increase the amount of chapters that reach quota and the number of PNMs who receive bids. I am glad to hear your school has been so successful with RFM!

Yes, but every time they come in with the recommended releases we always have a heart attack and wonder how it will play out. We haven't been disappointed yet, but it makes us question the numbers:)

jwright25 09-30-2009 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AXOrushadvisor (Post 1852585)
Yes, but every time they come in with the recommended releases we always have a heart attack and wonder how it will play out. We haven't been disappointed yet, but it makes us question the numbers:)

I felt the exact same way at first. I fought it and fought it because I was scared to death of having to release too many PNMs. But then we implemented it, and now after four years of it, the campus I'm referring to is stronger than ever, and ALL the chapters are flourishing instead of just a couple. My chapter still worries about the carry figures sometimes, and I have to explain the background of how numbers are determined, but it always works perfectly and they are always very happy with their new members.

I hope your campus is utilizing Priority ranking and Flex Lists?? (Forgive me if you stated this earlier - I didn't re-read the whole thread.) Flex Lists are a great "safety net" just in case you have an off year and need a few extra PNMs in your parties.

AXOrushadvisor 09-30-2009 12:25 PM

Yep, we use the flex list which we used to have to do by hand. This year we are using a computer program for all the invitational list plus the flex and it is so much easier.


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