Macbook vs Netbooks
 

Apple has been facing a serious challenge to its energetic growth for the first time in several years. First the recession sent consumers running from its pricey products. Then a reinvigorated Microsoft launched an ad campaign, further cementing the price difference in consumers' minds, leaving Apple begging for them to relent.

Now the major firms are announcing their sales predictions for Apple's Q2 2009, and no matter how you cut it, sales are starting to cool for the company.

Despite the launch of new 13" and 15" MacBook Pros priced $200 below their predecessors and its October price cut of its entry level MacBook to $999, Apple failed to gain traction in the second quarter of 2009. According to market research firm Gartner, it recovered with a mere 0.3 percent gain in shipments market share, clinging to fourth place. Meanwhile Toshiba, in fifth place, charged ahead with a 1.3 percent market share gain.

Acer showed an incredible 6.2 percent rise in market share, thanks to the popularity of its netbooks, as it moves to challenge HP and Dell for the top spot. Dell saw a drop, but remains just a hair ahead

Link

Although it doesn't directly state it here, I think that part of the loss of momentum for Apple would have to be that netbooks are gaining ground and not only are they 1/2 the size of the Macbook and most Windows based laptops but also sell for 1/3 of what the lowest end Macbook costs.

Combine those with the recession that we are in and most people would apt to buy soemthign that costs about the same or less than their cellphone.

I think Apple's way out will be to release a netbook or tablet at a competitive price.

I brought up a similar concern here: http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...light=netbooks

I really wanted a new Mac. My current one is ~ 6 years old, and in lap top time, that is ancient!

I did end up getting the Acer Aspire One 10 inch screen and I love it. It took a while to get used to the smaller keyboard, and it does not have a built in CD drive, it is external. I bought the Acer for the price mainly. To set up my whole system (lap top, purchase of external CD drive, mouse and carrying case, Word 2007 - Home Version) cost ~ 750.00. Still cheaper than a Mac. ;)

Do you think they're going to do that?

One thing that I love about Macs, but could come back to bite them, is the fact that very rarely do you HAVE HAVE HAVE to replace your Mac, even if it's old. My Mac is 6 years old next month and working like a charm (knock on wood). If I had purchased a similar PC laptop back in 2003, it definitely wouldn't have lasted 6years and I would have needed to replace it and its replacement too.

Right now, since people are stretching out things and not replacing unless absolutely necessary, the typical Mac user whose older computer is doing well isn't going to replace it when a new one comes out. PCs fall apart more often and owners are typically forced to get a new system. I think once the economy gets better, people who held off on getting a new Mac, or even the first Mac, will make their purchases.

I'm struggling with this right now. My old laptop died on me, (HUSH DS!!) and I've been eyeing a Mac for a while now. While I like the $1199 price, there are several comparable PCs for $300-$400 less. What I DONT like is the various crashes that my desktop has had in the past 4 years, averaging one a year. :mad: So I am in the market.

I will always be a "mac person" because the two non-macs I had both went to hell in a matter of months.

I'd rather spend a few hundred up front than that same few hundred getting it repaired 6 months down the road.

Hmmm.... This is not necessarily always the case. I have a Sony Vaio right now that I got in about 2003 and it is still working well. I am thinking about a new one (a pc), but just because I would like something more portable not because I need it.

Before that, I had a Toshiba that lasted from 1997 to 2003, so unless my two computers have been the exception...pcs must not be as fragile as all this.

Plus, I do hear some rumblings of dissatisfaction from some of the Mac owners I know, with at least two of them saying that they are going back to pcs with their next purchase--though I could not give you their reasons why.

I really would be curious to hear why anyone would go back to PC.

I guess for me, with my Mac, I do love having the Boot Camp option which allows one to run Windows on a Mac. I think the biggest issue with Windows is not necessarily the OS altho that tends to have its issues, but the hardware.

There are 1000s of hardware configurations that any one person can have to run any Windows OS on their system and that's why you have the 1000s of problems that keeps Geek Squad and etc in business. Not that Mac doesn't have the same kinds of failures but the rate is considerably less.

As far as the question as to mac building something cheaper...it's entirely possible and I still caution that you get what you paid for. There have been times i have spent under $500 bucks and the PC in question was a mixed bag. The Macbook I have had since November...so far...no problems. We have a G5 in the house that we have had for 4 years...ZERO problems.

Yeah it gets redundant...but I am saying all of this to say, let's be careful of what we ask for...when products start getting cheaper in price, the reliability becomes suspect.

That's why even in the used market, most Macs can still command a fair price...so Nikki if you still are pondering. in all seriousness there is craigslist.

That reminds me, one of my frat brothers called me last week angry because he can't find a used Macbook Pro 15" on craigslist for under a G. I laughed and told him...that's the sign of a good product. Take a Dell with the same specs that was $700 dollars last year and you will be lucky if you can get 1/2 for it right now.

Lastly, if you ever want to see what kind of rip off people are trying to pull, go to the computer shows. Note how much the vendors try to sell their laptops for. Take note of the specs (hard drive, CPU, memory) and then look at what you see in Best Buy or on TigerDirect.

One reason that I've heard is that you can not 'right click' on a Mac mouse.

I think that one thing people may want to keep in mind is that I don't think netbooks are great if it is your only computer. Netbooks are good, as someone mentioned, for portability. I mainly use mine to type Word documents and surf the 'net. I still use my Mac and consider it to be my 'main' computer.

As for the lifespan of a Mac vs. PC, I think it comes down to quality of PC and how you took care of it. My school gave teachers a Gateway lap top to use in the classroom. I had mine for about 2 years before the screen started going bad. I mentioned this to our department IT guy and he suggested that I just don't use the Gateway anymore as it is not worth getting repaired.

I just bought a Netbook and love it.

But you need to own a regular computer too, because netbooks really are just for being on the run. They're kind of worthless otherwise.

You CAN right click on a Mac.

That's the problem with most Windows users is that they don't want to 'unlearn' Windows thinking long enough to simply put 2 fingers on the touchpad and click the button.

ETA: sigmadiva...why did your screen go bad?

A few of the 'hard-core' programmers (LINUX, UNIX) that I know would rather use a PC over a Mac.

For me it was simply the physical weight of the netbook, combined with the price. My Acer weighs ~ 3 lbs and my MacBook Titanium weighs ~ 7 lbs. That may not seem like much until you have to haul it around all day!!

From my research about netbooks is that the reason they are cheaper is because of the smaller screen and they don't have an internal CD drive. I never read that their lower price is due to quality. It is just stripped down a bit more, which then lowered the overall price. The way it was explained to me by a BestBuy sales person is "Netbooks are just a bigger palm pilot".

I've only owned two computers in my adult life. They both lasted more than six years. I've had to add more RAM to them once or twice so they can keep up with today's Web technology, but after that they're just fine. My experience has been that most issues people have with PCs is that they don't know how to use computers...period. They go to problem Web sites that are filled with malicious code, they download stuff they shouldn't, they click on links in emails that they shouldn't, or they try to game on a computer that doesn't have the memory for it. Macs are just as vulnerable to viruses as PCs...it's just that in the past the virus creators haven't bothered creating versions for Macs because they didn't have a big enough share of the market. As more and more people start buying Macs, you'll see a lot more viruses for them. And as any Mac owner - or company that has Macs - will tell you, once something goes wrong with a Mac, it REALLY GOES WRONG.

okay, okay....I'll try to learn something new. :p


I really don't know why my screen went bad. One day it started getting fuzzy / color lines across the whole screen and it would freeze up. I'd turn off the computer, restart it, and it would be fine for a while.

But see, you just in a way, reiterated what i just said...you get what you paid for.

You buy a netbook that's missing 'pieces' and a smaller screen...LOL

I see your point too but something else to consider, netbooks are just starting to catch on, I would be curious to see what consumer reports will say about them within the next 2 years.

And Elepahnt walk just pointed out something else...to a degree, you still need to 'tether' your netbook with a PC in order to get some use out of it...

..interesting.

If that is all you want, then there is no problem. You 'get what you pay for' in terms of complexity of the computer, not necessarily in terms of quality.

I don't think this is what he meant, or, at least I did not read it that way. You have a netbook for 'quick convenience', not because it will be you main computer.

My lawschool laptop (a Dell 600m), purchased in the Summer of '05 is still working like a champ. Runs all the software I need it to and is still functional in every way except that it needs a new battery. I used the heck out of this thing and carried it with me in a soft bag full of big 'ol law books just about every day. It's survived the extreme Oklahoma weather and is really in fine condition.

The only people I know who went back to PCs are either people who build their own computers on a regular basis, therefore knowing what they're doing, or those who have to buy computers for their offices and figure that the low cost is a reason to stock their businesses with PCs.

Most entry-level PCs can't handle the heavy-duty video and graphics that the entry-level Macs can. Since most of my work involves that, I had to replace my PCs in college on a bi-annual basis because they'd be obsolete. With my Mac, I've had it for six years and have put almost every major graphic/CAD/design program on it, and it still runs like the day I bought it. If you're doing basic academic work, you can probably keep a PC for a long time. My parents had their PC for about 8 years. It all depends on what you do with it.

Kevin, you should be able to find that battery online or on ebay. Dont wait too long because believe it or not, bad batteries on occasion can do nasty things to your motherboard.

Unless you're claiming Apple's (3rd-party) components are superior (hint: they buy from the same supply chains as PCs), then this is indeed a software/Windows issue.

Here's the thing: most computer issues are eminently predictable, and fall into a few main categories:

-Software issues (setup, virus/spyware) - this is entirely operator error, and any differences between Macs and PCs are incidental, rather than an innate superiority/inferiority
-Basic system failure due to 'old age' (this would be a motherboard dying, failed power supply, hard drive, etc.) . . . other than the actual processors, there isn't a fundamental hardware difference between PCs and Macs
-Laptop errors (screens breaking, etc.) - Macs might be superior here over certain, low-end PC brands, but I'm not sure the difference is significant.

The bottom line is that Apple has spent years defining their product as a "premium" product, one worthy of extra expense - if you like MacOS and prefer not to be able to 'customize' (which, for most people, means 'eventually fuck up') your system, or if you just think it looks cool, it's definitely worth the dollars. But anecdotes about Apple's lack of failures on a systemic level ring hollow - our company is split between PC and Mac users, and we've had far more problems with the Mac side, both in terms of hardware and software issues.

This is actually patently false - it's because similar Dells are basically given away, generally via corporate buyers. Value is a function of supply and demand, which may or may not be based on product quality - here, there's a perception issue ("Macs are cool, Dells are dime-a-dozen") and a product that has flooded the market. Seriously, I have five mid-line Dell workstation laptops sitting in a box in my office right now - they're far more capable than a similarly-priced Mac and just as reliable, it's just that there isn't a market. Dell's ads suck.

Why are they sitting in a box? LOL

Also I am not claiming that Mac's parts are superior but when you have so many ways to configure PCs (100's of brands of memory, HDD, CPUs<Athlon's incarnations vs Intel's incarnations> cooling systems) , then yes I tend to think that is the reason why the hardware failure rate could be so high on Windows machines.

I have to disagree with you on Dells....hehe and this is just purely my opinion based on what i have seen come out form them in the past 3 years, but I remember earlier in the decade, Dells were THE BRAND to get because at that point, the machines ran with few problems. But the last 3 years, from what I have dealt with (faulty memory errors, burnt out motherboards, etc.) and also with as you also stated, they are being given away, most Dells are 'junk'.

If I ever have to recommend a PC to anyone, I generally say Acers and HPs are your best bets and Asus brands are catching up.

I am however wondering when the gap will begin to close with Macs and PCs now that within the last few years, Intel chips are running the machines and people are starting to gravitate between both.

But let's come back a sec...to anyone who has or is thinking about getting a netbook. How many of you think that this will change the ideas of laptops as we know it?

Especially in a few years when solid state drives will hopefully have caught up to the conventional harddrive...will netbooks be 'the thing' to have?

Since I have one, I'll answer. I really don't think it will change the idea of laptops. Netbooks were designed for a specific purpose. From my understanding, they were not necessarily designed to replace a laptop. Have BlackBerries changed how we think about laptops and telephones? To an extent, but the Blackberry market just made it easier to communicate. It did not make traditional phones and computers obsolete.


The netbook will be the 'thing to have' if you need one. Again, like BlackBerries, if you need one, then you have one. I personally don't need a BlackBerry so I don't have one.

Well, this is different. Most of the folks that I know who do graphic intensive work sing Macs praises. But I know quite a few that do this work who use and love pcs too.

I kind of feel the same way...you do so many upgrades on your PC only to still have it obsolete in < 5 years.

The last desktop I bought 2 years ago, just within the first year, I upgraded:

1. CPU to the highest standard on the board
2. the video card 2x ( I watch and record a lot of video)
3. Memory...of course
4. added an external hard drive (what most people should have now anyway.

The Mac, out of the box, the only thing I have done thus far is maxed the memory on the board and it handles the rest.

the G5 desktop can preconfigured and hasn't been upgraded since and still runs pretty much the same way.

Modern PC architecture (and the changing of Mac procs) has narrowed the gap significantly, but not necessarily on the "Best Buy" out-of-box/OEM models . . . especially with the floating-point/vector change-over for graphic design software. At this point, the preference for Macs is probably because that's what the majority of professionals started on.

Seriously, just like with automobiles, personal preference trumps just about everything.

Kind of amazing sometimes how Macs (even though they have their own stores) have such a small shelf space in Best Buy....

Just on another tangent, I find it bothersome when I go to Best Buy to do PC shopping in general how so few of them know how to sell the products they have and how so many people are willing to buy it just because it's there.

I tend to tell folks that buying a PC is like also buying a car. Take someone that knows PCs with you so they can speak the languane and if the person that is trying to sell it to you don't know thier stuff move on.

I had a friend of mine that recently bought an HP....had nice specs and everything..bought it because it was on sale...was very diappointed with the battery life....long story...suffice to ssay AFTER he read the reviews, AFTER he bought it did he understand why it was on sale...

Interesting you would say that. Macs were the first computer I ever used, but that was in elementary school, when Apple had the schools outreach program (back when all the computers came complete with the big floppy drive and Oregon Trail loaded on the machine). I actually find PCs far more easy and intuitive to use, probably because that's really what I grew up using for practical work such as typing out assignments and making presentations to my class; Macs were what we learned to type on in elem. school (think "home row" and "keep your feet flat on the floor").

My university requires its business majors to work on PCs. But I see that a bunch of the freshmen want to know why, and they're insisting on bringing a Mac with them. Well, one of the reasons why the school probably wants them to use a PC is that in the corporate world, almost everyone works on a PC. Macs are for people in digital arts, graphic design, the "creatives" in advertising agencies (but not even the account people) and things like that. Macs are just too expensive for most companies to purchase over and over, not just the computers, but the servers and stuff, too.

Oh, and whomever was saying that Dell's quality has gone down is totally right. Five-10 years ago they were pretty great, but my mom got a brand new one at around Christmas and the hard drive died ONE MONTH later. She is now having issues with the second machine. Other than my old Dells, I've had some good work laptops from HP and Toshiba. IBMs are terrible.

What kind of issues is she having?

hey let me ask something to everyone replying...is there anyone here using Linux, Ubuntu or Red hat? Also what do you think about the fact that Google is trying to make Chrome into an OS?

I have a couple Ubuntu servers at work. I've considered installing it at home, but just haven't gotten around to it.

This seems to be key, if this thread is any indication. :)

Unless they know a lot about computers, your average PC buyer is going for the cheapest option, which explains why some seem to fail almost right away.

When I made the decision to switch from PC to Mac, I compared the performance-level Mac laptop (at that time, a PowerBook G4) to a PC with the same specs and the Mac came out a little cheaper. That's not why I bought it--again, I'm in the creative industry and back in 2003 PCs hadn't quite gotten a handle on that industry (it's gotten better, though). Of course, most people see the $500 price difference between the entry-level Mac and the entry-level PC and don't realize that the entry-level Mac won't have to be replaced at a certain point. The difference between the entry-level Mac and a performance-level PC is a little less stark, though.

choices?
 

Hey guys,
would love to update this thread. Does everyone own a notebook or 13" Mac? I'm ready to shop.

I had a 13in macbook, loved it. Currently have a 15in Macbook Pro, love it even more.

BUT

Isn't a netbook like one of those 9in $300 internet only computers? Why either that or Mac? It's like deciding whether to buy an Escalade or an Escort.

LOL! Fair enough. I meant notebook but was moving too fast. I'm leaning towards the Macbook 13". I'm tired of windows crashing.

MacBooks have better resale value over notebooks, thats something to consider.

Although I'm a PC person, I gave in and recently purchased a MacBook Pro 13". My school's photo department (really, the school in general with the exception of a couple of departments) is hooked up with APPLE (yuck). So, since I've learned all my photoshop, lightroom, etc on macs and really, those programs are designed to work best with macs.

I bought it with my tax refund. I also got the student discount and managed to hustle additional discounts. :p I have my issues with it but basically, I'm ok with it. I do like that it's really a lot lighter than I thought it would be. Almost as light as the Macbook Air.

This is something else I considered when I purchased it.

Silly person. You never get rid of computers, as long as you can still make them work for something.

Macbook Pro 13"