What GPA is too low for your campus?
 

So many of the PNMs I've done recs for have outstanding GPAs that I no longer feel like I have a handle on what a normal GPA is.

I'm not wondering about official minimums to offer bids. I would like to know, just in the opinions of recent undergraduate members or alumnae working with chapters, at what point for your campus is a GPA low enough that it's going to affect a PNM's recruitment.

(I know that nobody can probably say anything official.)

ETA: Can a girl with a below a 3.0 out of high school expect a bid in the SEC?

Well, for my chapter, you must have a 3.0 to join and a 2.6 to stay active.

I would imagine the standards would be pretty high for competitive SEC schools as well, but I wouldn't know.

Maryland has deferred recruitment. First semester freshmen can join if they have 12 credits (usually AP), and there is no cutoff for high school GPA because of the small number of freshmen rushing and because it can't be that low if you were accepted to the University in the first place.

In the spring, it's only the college GPA that counts. The GPA to go through recruitment is a 2.5, but most of the chapters have published minimums of 2.6-2.8. PNMs with between a 2.8 and a 3.0 are usually questionable and below a 2.8 will usually get you cut by a lot of chapters early on, though generally, if they get a bid, it's because there is another factor that compensates for their deficiency.

If you really believe it was just her grades, why did you think it was important to tell us about her size and appearance?

I suspect there are a ton of beautiful girls with low GPAs that get a pass because of their appearance.

I'm just wondering what other people think. I've seen a couple of GPAs that are kind of low for girls going through recruitment from our local high schools (2.6-3.0 for high school) and my first impression, because I've grown accustomed to seeing 3.5+ GPAs, is that these PNMs might have some trouble just with grades in recruitment.

This is just from the random alumna perspective; I'm not on the chapter side of things.

Did we have a list of the minimum GPA to pledge NPC groups at the national/international level? Anyone know where?

One of the girls is looking at recruitment at Ole Miss with a 3.0 out of high school.

Is that likely to be a problem with some groups there or is that okay?

To me a 3.0 out of high school today, unless its a realllllly good high school probably, isn't going to equal a 3.0+ in college.

ETA: There's no course of action that I'm considering based on this information. (I'm not looking to write harsh recs or anything. I don't think I know something the chapter doesn't.) I'm just curious about whether it's likely to hurt the PNM, or if I've just gotten used to seeing really high GPAs most of the time and that this grade range out of high school is cool.

I have no idea about Ole Miss, but I know grade inflation is a huge issue which makes me look at the whole package instead of GPA. I am lucky enough to have the luxury of not having a lot of recs to write so I can really get to know women and their whole story.

My school is not competitive.

There is no minimum GPA set by the school for freshman PNMs; transfers and upperclassmen must have a 2.0. However, to my knowledge, the individual chapters each have GPA minimums higher than that.

Right, general grade inflation is so common that I wonder if chapters look at grade risk cut-offs a lot higher than they used to.

I just wonder if the girls in question need to be prepared from some kind of hard early cuts or if they are in pretty good shape. It's strange not to have any idea.

I think that really depends on the GPAs of the entire pool of pnms each year.

In year 1 - you might have 100 pnms, all with very close GPAs above all of the campus & chapter totals. They might range from 3.0-4.0. If most of the pnms have closer to a 4.0, those who have 3.0-3.2 might be at a greater risk of being cut from the most competitive houses based on grades than those who have higher GPAs. So that year, a GPA between 3.0-3.2 might be "too low" even if they are above the minimums

In year 2 - you might have the same number of pnms - all with GPAs above all of the campus & chapter totals, but the range is 2.7-4.0. That year "too low" might be considered 2.7-3.0 because the range is a little bit bigger

But that's based on grades alone... there are so many different areas that are looked at and chapters use different MS processes to get different types of members. One chapter for example, might only want girls with a 3.8-4.0 because they have won grades every semester for the last decade and they want to keep that up. Another chapter might be OK with someone who got a 3.0 because they had a lot of philanthropic work or whatever. So I think "too low" is also a function of the way chapters are selecting members

This is why I try to get a lot of information on a woman so I can honestly represent her to my sisters and she is given a fair chance to not fall through the cracks because grades are often a method many sororities use to make initial cuts. I am very honest that GPA is a method for initial decisions, and they shouldn't take it personally if they aren't invited back.

I'm not talking about women who have below the campus minimum, though that has happened. I've only written one rec for a woman who was above a 2.0 but below the majority or all of the campus chapter minimums. I've been surprised and amazed at what the real story is (sick family member, watched siblings because parent lost job and they had no money for daycare, personal illness, took on employment to pay for college, and so on) and that these experiences are not just explanations for not having a 4.0, but are an example of character and personality. One woman had academic issues early in high school, but did amazing work junior and senior year, she had a 4.0 during senior year and had attended previous summer school/alternative school so she could graduate on time. If I hadn't taken the time to get to know her and looked at her transcripts, she would have probably been released completely the first day.

If I feel strongly about a PNM with a GPA that might be a deterrent, I also contact women I know in other groups and try and help her get a fair chance.

Grade inflation can also be a result of schools, and not all schools grade the same, finding out that information can be difficult.

In my chapter you need a 2.5 to receive a bid.You also must keep a 2.5 through out the pledge process and while your a brother or theres certain consequences. The actual university requires 2.25 to be involved in greek life. Each org has different requirements. 2.25 obviously being the min. and 2.5 being the max.

Our chapters Cummalitive GPA is a 2.9 and for last term was a 3.0.

Do you know anything about the high school? Do the girls in the chapters come from enough of a spectrum that they know which is what? I mean, are the girls in the chapter going to look and say "Trust me, 3.0 at Blue Footed Booby High is like getting a 4.0 at Woody Woodpecker High - BFBH makes you read War & Peace in 7th grade."

It's a good school for Georgia, no doubt, but its grading is probably about typical for the Atlanta suburban area. I don't think these kids will necessarily flunk out of college or anything, but I have no reason to believe they would have been 4.0 scholars at a different school.

Since I think these girls are going out of state (good luck getting in to UGA with a 3.0 out of high school these days), I doubt there will be a ton of people who really know anything about the schools.

These are kind of average students from a good public school.

In the olden days, there was still a place for you in Greek life with these kind of academic credentials, but I don't know what GPAs really look like these days in new member classes.

I would say that about 90% of the PNMs I know of have GPAs above 3.25, with most being higher than 3.5.

Are the PNMs I'm seeing typical?

ETA: the majority of girls that I end up writing recs for are going to SEC schools plus Georgia Tech. So I know that the PNMs aren't typical for everyplace. I just wonder if these GPAs are typical for these schools. These lower and hovering around 3.0 PNMs stick out in my pool. Will they stick out on campus?

You must have a 2.75 and at least 12 credit hours to go through recruitment at Elon and you must be at least a 2nd semester freshman. Each chapter then has its own grade requirements, I believe. Based soley on my opinion - certain chapters may have higher grade standards then other chapters, which may cause heavier cuts in the beginning.

I guess I can kind of figure this out for myself by look at that average high school GPA of students at the schools. There'd be no reason to think the PNMs would be lower than average.

https://oira.auburn.edu/factbook/enr...ts/newstu.aspx

Auburn’s average enrolled student GPA last year was a 3.69. Wow.

This says Alabama's is a 3.4 http://education.yahoo.com/college/facts/9105.html (It has Auburn's as a 3.5)

Same source with a link at the bottom says Mississippi State is a 3.18. Doesn't have one for Ole Miss. (These admission policies suggest Ole Miss's is likely to be kind of low, comparatively. If you have a 3.2, you don't even need test scores.http://www.olemiss.edu/admissions/fap.html#regad) Says Ga Tech's is a 3.7. Says South Carolina's is a 3.8. Beginning to see a big problem with site's reporting.

This may be somewhat dated information, but I believe that at Otterbein you had to have a 3.0 to rush, and because it was deferred that came from your college GPA. Chapters had no way of knowing your GPA (they weren't given that information). If I remember my pledge manual correctly, in my sorority you had to have a 3.0 to activate as well.

Are you all locals?

In an NPC recruitment, they'd have to reveal the GPAs, I think, because the individual groups have minimums. ETA: I guess a campus could just set the minimum requirement to rush higher than the lowest required by any group, but that seems unlikely to me.

According to that link, UW's (Washington) average admitted freshman GPA was 3.69. I would say that's fairly average for the (freshman) PNMs who come through Recruitment. This is not to say that anyone below that will have an overly difficult time - I have seen quite a few with lower GPAs who receive bids. And as far as I know, there is no minimum GPA to actually go through Recruitment, however, per the norm, each chapter has their own standards.

Yes they are. The sororities are, anyway.

I tell folks to look at Panhellenic average as a general guideline. If grades are higher than that a PNM should be fairly safe from GPA cuts, anyone below may not be.

We also look at SAT/ACT scores in addition to GPA, especially for those HS's we know nothing about (often out of state). A good/bad score won't be enough to keep/cut a PNM with a bad/good GPA, but if someone's on the "bubble" it can help/hurt.

On the KKG national website, it states that PNMs must have "a C+ average from the previous completed term at a college or university, [and] many chapters have academic requirements that are higher than the Fraternity’s." To be honest, I don't know exactly what our chapter requires. Without giving away info on MSS, I'll just say PNMs' grades are treated as a very private matter between the Membership Chair and the advisors. Since recruitment is deferred freshmen have a full semester of college under their belt, but Hopkins has a "covered grades" policy in which your first semester grades are all considered pass/fail (though the GPA eventually factors into your cumulative). I think PNMs sign something so that their grades can be "uncovered" for recruitment. In any case, Hopkins has absolutely ZERO grade inflation and it's easy to get overwhelmed first semester, so I would guess chapters are a little more lenient than they might be elsewhere. A lot of freshmen go from getting straight As in high school to something a little... harsher. :(

Wow, really? Interesting. Are they required for registration? What if a PNM didn't take the SAT/ACTs?

My guess is they would have to take one of the two in order to get into the school. As for being required, I don't know about that, but my guess is the sorts of "stats" are included on a Recruitment resume.

You're rec writer might ask, especially if she was looking for something to offset a low GPA.

Thanks!

The reason I ask is that I do a fair amount of volunteering in Admissions, and there actually are some schools that do not require SAT/ACT... but it's more of a "recommended but not required" thing. Which everyone knows means, "you'd better do it." :p

Back on track - I can't imagine sifting through SAT scores for PNMs! Our university's recruitment isn't that competitive and we rarely get recs, resumes or anything like that. It would be a helpful component to add, though - particularly if you don't have deferred recruitment.

I love that my alma mater's Panhellenic recruitment form asked for ACT/SAT scores. GPA alone should never be an indicator of someone's potential. A grade cut is a grade cut is a grade cut, but for someone "on the bubble," or from an unfamiliar school, it can help a lot.

Or hurt, depending upon how you want to look at it. A girl graduated from my high school with a 3.5, but only scored a 20 on her ACT (the GPA was a result of heli-momming at its finest). The combination definitely hurt her in recruitment.

I would say that it just depends on the chapter at Ole Miss. Some chapters also look at the member's ACT/SAT scores too. Also, most PNMs come to Ole Miss from schools we are familiar with so we know if the curriculum is tough.

Oh big whoop; everybody knows that BFBH lets you read it in English translation.

Recruitment at my school isn't competitive, and recs are pretty much unheard of. I believe that the minimum to register for recruitment is a 2.0. My chapter's minimum for new members is a 2.5, and we really look for girls with at least a 3.0 or very close to it. Going off of the pnms last year, there were only one or two girls that had a gpa lower than a 2.5

Well played.

In my dream world we obtain new members after one semester so we know they can make it through college, but that's not how it works most places.

I guess I'm a bit more lenient as I meet A LOT of students who are the first in their family to go to college and they did not have all the benefits others did to get a 4.0 in high school. Economic benefits, parental support, neighborhood, school of choice, and many other factors play in that can cause a student to not be at a level we decide. I hate the arbitrary numbers of it all, and dislike that things beyond a college freshman's control can keep them from getting a fair shot. We all know of members who flunk out, show us they have personal issues that do not mesh well with group membership, are miserable people, so GPA is not the be all end all.