GreekChat.com Forums

GreekChat.com Forums (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/index.php)
-   News & Politics (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/forumdisplay.php?f=207)
-   -   Iran Presidential election has heavy turnout (https://greekchat.com/gcforums/showthread.php?t=105803)

DaemonSeid 06-12-2009 08:39 AM

Iran Presidential election has heavy turnout
 
TEHRAN, Iran – Iranians packed polling stations from boutique-lined streets to conservative bastions Friday with a choice that's left the country divided and on edge: keeping hard-line President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in power or electing a reformist who favors greater freedoms and improved ties with the United States.

Crowds formed quickly at many voting sites in areas considered both strongholds for Ahmadinejad and his main rival, reformist Mir Hossein Mousavi, who served as prime minister in the 1980s and has become the surprise hero of a powerful youth-driven movement. At several polling stations in Tehran, mothers held their young children in their arms as they waited in long lines.

"I hope to defeat Ahmadinejad today," said Mahnaz Mottaghi, 23, after casting her ballot at a mosque in central Tehran.

Outside the same polling station, 29-year-old Abbas Rezai said he, his wife and his sister-in-law all voted for Ahmadinejad.

"We will have him as a president for another term, for sure," he said.

The fiery, monthlong campaign unleashed passions that could bring a record turnout. The mass rallies, polished campaign slogans, savvy Internet outreach and televised debates more closely resembled Western elections than the scripted campaigns in most other Middle Eastern countries.

In a sign of the bitter rifts from the campaign, the Interior Ministry — which oversees voting — said all rallies or political gatherings would be banned until after results are announced, which are expected Saturday.

The outcome will not sharply alter Iran's main policies or sway high-level decisions, such as possible talks with Washington. Those crucial policies are all directly controlled by the ruling clerics headed by the unelected Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.

But Mousavi has offered hopes of more freedoms at home. If elected, he could try to end crackdowns on liberal media and bloggers and push for Iran to embrace President Barack Obama's offer of dialogue after a nearly 30-year diplomatic freeze. He favors talks with world powers over Iran's nuclear program, which the United States and others fear is aimed at making weapons. Iran says it only seeks reactors for electricity.

Iranians around the world also took part in the vote. In Dubai, home to an estimated 200,000 Iranians, the streets around the polling station at the Iranian consulate were jammed with voters overwhelming favoring Mousavi.

"He is our Obama," said Maliki Zadehamid, a 39-year-old exporter.

With the race considered too close to call, a top election official predicted turnout could surpass the nearly 80 percent in elections 12 years ago that brought President Mohammad Khatami to power and began the pro-reform movement. A strong turnout could boost Mousavi. He is counting on under-30s, who account for about a third of Iran's 46.2 million eligible voters.

In Tehran's affluent northern districts — strongly backing Mousavi — voters waited for up to an hour to cast ballots. Mahdi Hosseini, a university student, blasted the firebrand Ahmadinejad for "degrading Iran's image in the eyes of the world."

Ahmadinejad brought international condemnation by repeatedly questioning the Holocaust.

In the conservative city of Qom, home to seminaries and shrines, hundreds of clerics and women dressed in long black robes waited to vote in a long line outside a mosque. Ahmadinejad's campaign has heavily courted his base of working-class families and tradition-minded voters with promises of more government aid and resistance to Western pressures over Iran's nuclear ambitions.

Mousavi's rallies in Tehran drew tens of thousands of cheering supporters, who later spent their nights shouting anti-Ahmadinejad slogans and dancing to Persian pop songs on the streets.

The highly charged atmosphere brought blistering recriminations against Ahmadinejad — whom Mousavi said was moving Iran to a "dictatorship" — and a stunning warning from the ruling establishment. The political chief of the powerful Revolutionary Guard warned Wednesday it would crush any "revolution" against the Islamic system by Mousavi's "green movement" — the signature color of his campaign.

He hammered Ahmadinejad for mismanaging the economy, burdened by double-digit inflation and chronic unemployment despite vast oil and gas riches.

For the first time in Iran, the forces of the Web were fully harnessed in an election showdown. That catapulted Mousavi, a 67-year-old former prime minister from the 1980s, into a political star.

On Friday, dozens of Iranian's using Twitter posted messages including one proclaimed: "For Iran, this is the Day of Decision."

Mousavi's stunning rise also has been helped by his popular and charismatic wife, former university dean Zahra Rahnavard, and their joint calls for more rights and political clout for women. Iranian women work in nearly level of society — including as parliament members. But they face legal restrictions on issues such as inheritance and court testimony, where their say is considered only half as credible as a man's.


linkl


Does anyone think that should Mousavi be elected, it will help change Iran's image? Or will the Ayatollah be the final word in what direction Iran is to take?

KSig RC 06-12-2009 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid (Post 1816378)
Does anyone think that should Mousavi be elected, it will help change Iran's image? Or will the Ayatollah be the final word in what direction Iran is to take?

This isn't "either/or" - in fact, it seems self-evident that both are true.

DaemonSeid 06-14-2009 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSig RC (Post 1816420)
This isn't "either/or" - in fact, it seems self-evident that both are true.

Well it looks like it won't matter at this point, but now there are reports of voter fraud.

One wonders how this could turn out.

Kevin 06-14-2009 03:13 PM

This is pretty interesting for me. A lot of my clients are Persian and would be very pleased if either the government is overthrown or somehow, Mousavi ends up in power.

sdeason1 06-16-2009 01:01 PM

I find this with great interest along with you Kevin. It seems that the down trodden are getting restless in Iran and are rebeling. Good fo them. Now it seems that the head Musilum is going to have an investigation into the possible voter fraud. This may change things in the whole middle east.

Thetagirl218 06-16-2009 08:36 PM

I thought it was amazing to see people protesting their government even when they know they could face severe consequences. Apparently, after the protests were banned people were yelling to each other from the rooftops! I thought that was pretty cool!

Kevin 06-16-2009 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdeason1 (Post 1817300)
I find this with great interest along with you Kevin. It seems that the down trodden are getting restless in Iran and are rebeling. Good fo them. Now it seems that the head Musilum is going to have an investigation into the possible voter fraud. This may change things in the whole middle east.

That's a long shot. Unless this movement is interested in deposing the Supreme Leader and the rest of the clerics, even if Mousavi is elected (or selected), not a lot will change. The President doesn't hold a lot of power and any power granted to him can be taken back at the whim of the religious establishment.

I don't think this movement is going to lead to the storming of the castle gates, and really, anything short of that is nothing at all.

sdeason1 06-17-2009 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin (Post 1817468)
That's a long shot. Unless this movement is interested in deposing the Supreme Leader and the rest of the clerics, even if Mousavi is elected (or selected), not a lot will change. The President doesn't hold a lot of power and any power granted to him can be taken back at the whim of the religious establishment.

I don't think this movement is going to lead to the storming of the castle gates, and really, anything short of that is nothing at all.

Granted that you are probably right, but we can only hope. But, they are not used to seeing something like this in years and I am sure they are worried by it. Sometimes the down trodden rebel and this is so new to them since the Shah was deposed and America was kicked out it may just change things there.

DaemonSeid 06-17-2009 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin (Post 1817468)
That's a long shot. Unless this movement is interested in deposing the Supreme Leader and the rest of the clerics, even if Mousavi is elected (or selected), not a lot will change. The President doesn't hold a lot of power and any power granted to him can be taken back at the whim of the religious establishment.

I don't think this movement is going to lead to the storming of the castle gates, and really, anything short of that is nothing at all.

If that is the case then is it safe to say, that the President is really picked by the clerics than the public at large?

Kevin 06-17-2009 08:01 PM

I could go with that. The way it works is any potential candidate submits his or her name to the clerics and then they approve a list which the people can vote on. There were a couple hundred names submitted (over 100 women) and the clerics gave what.. 4 or 5 men?

So no, the people don't have any real choice here.

DaemonSeid 06-17-2009 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin (Post 1817716)
I could go with that. The way it works is any potential candidate submits his or her name to the clerics and then they approve a list which the people can vote on. There were a couple hundred names submitted (over 100 women) and the clerics gave what.. 4 or 5 men?

So no, the people don't have any real choice here.

I didnt think so...and even if there is a recount it's just a horse and pony show....


This sounds familiar...

Kevin 06-17-2009 08:40 PM

If you're going to compare to Bush-Gore, there's no comparison, don't even go there. Too much of a hijack anyhow... :)

For one, no one is claiming Bush really came in 3rd.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/iran-pro...ame-third.html

DaemonSeid 06-17-2009 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin (Post 1817735)
If you're going to compare to Bush-Gore, there's no comparison, don't even go there. Too much of a hijack anyhow... :)

For one, no one is claiming Bush really came in 3rd.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/iran-pro...ame-third.html

I wasn't even going there....bring it back bub.


altho not in the same vein Benazir Bhutto had similar troubles and look where it got her.

MysticCat 06-17-2009 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid (Post 1817704)
If that is the case then is it safe to say, that the President is really picked by the clerics than the public at large?

The analysis I have been hearing would not quite go with that, I don't think. Elections have been described as the one thing that approaches democracy in Iran. True, you can't run to begin with if the clerics don't approve of you. But as I understand it, historically the people, not the clerics, have made the choice between the approved candidates. Is this that much different from the parties choosing the handful of candidates that run for POTUS, and then the people choosing from the handful?

As I understand it, the current demonstrations are not aimed at overthrowing the system but rather at protesting any rigging of the election.

DaemonSeid 06-17-2009 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticCat (Post 1817747)
The analysis I have been hearing would not quite go with that, I don't think. Elections have been described as the one thing that approaches democracy in Iran. True, you can't run to begin with if the clerics don't approve of you. But as I understand it, historically the people, not the clerics, have made the choice between the approved candidates. Is this that much different from the parties choosing the handful of candidates that run for POTUS, and then the people choosing from the handful?

As I understand it, the current demonstrations are not aimed at overthrowing the system but rather at protesting any rigging of the election.

Problem is tho...it's only one party picking the candidates...

MysticCat 06-17-2009 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid (Post 1817751)
Problem is tho...it's only one party picking the candidates...

No. The candidates are from different parties. It's a "vetting council" above the parties, approving or disapproving the candidates.

Not that I would want that system at all mind you, but as I understand it, within the confines of that system, elections have in the past been more or less free.

KSig RC 06-17-2009 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticCat (Post 1817747)
The analysis I have been hearing would not quite go with that, I don't think. Elections have been described as the one thing that approaches democracy in Iran. True, you can't run to begin with if the clerics don't approve of you. But as I understand it, historically the people, not the clerics, have made the choice between the approved candidates. Is this that much different from the parties choosing the handful of candidates that run for POTUS, and then the people choosing from the handful?

As I understand it, the current demonstrations are not aimed at overthrowing the system but rather at protesting any rigging of the election.

Yeah - and it's nearly as obvious as possible, from the evidence I've seen, that the election was rigged . . . and not only that, but almost no effort was made to hide it.

In that sense, the elections are far from "democratic" in this instance - the winner was literally predetermined.

MysticCat 06-18-2009 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSig RC (Post 1817802)
Yeah - and it's nearly as obvious as possible, from the evidence I've seen, that the election was rigged . . . and not only that, but almost no effort was made to hide it.

In that sense, the elections are far from "democratic" in this instance - the winner was literally predetermined.

Right.

KSig RC 06-18-2009 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticCat (Post 1817835)
Right.

The more I think about it, the more I almost appreciate the sheer audacity of the thing . . . like, "We'll just weather a few weeks of student protests, send out our not-so-secret militia to beat some asses, and everything will be all good in the end."

sdeason1 06-18-2009 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSig RC (Post 1817844)
The more I think about it, the more I almost appreciate the sheer audacity of the thing . . . like, "We'll just weather a few weeks of student protests, send out our not-so-secret militia to beat some asses, and everything will be all good in the end."

Interesting concept and thought. Now, it seems that the USA is getting blamed for the the marches of the Iranian people who are maybe getting fed up with the Mullahs. They the mullahs seem to be understanding the situation and that then brings up the question, did they really rig the election? If that could be proven would the people stand for it. A clay footed base seems to be starting to be eroded. What did a few good men do to the British in the colonies?

sdeason1 06-21-2009 04:02 PM

Looks like the citizens of Iran are not backing down from the little news that is coming out of the country. Guess they are getting really fed up and are going to fight The Supreme Leader. Amazing to see the women getting into the middle of it. I see from some of the Cell Phone shots that a few are down with the anti election results. This could be one of the biggest changes in the Middle East.

RU OX Alum 06-21-2009 09:41 PM

Okay, this makes me sound like a dumbass, but I am a dumb ass, so whatever.

Everytime I hear/read the phrase "supreme leader" I can't help but think of "fearless leader" from the Rocky and Bullwinkle show.

KSUViolet06 06-21-2009 10:29 PM

I just got this Tweet from CNN about the election:

cnnbrk: Iranian media states that Guardian Council says more votes cast than eligible voters in 50 cities, but denies that it affected outcome.

Riiight.

MysticCat 06-22-2009 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RU OX Alum (Post 1818474)
Okay, this makes me sound like a dumbass, but I am a dumb ass, so whatever.

Everytime I hear/read the phrase "supreme leader" I can't help but think of "fearless leader" from the Rocky and Bullwinkle show.

You're not the only one. :D

ETA: And whenever I hear "Guardian Council," all I can think of is the Jedi Council.

sdeason1 06-22-2009 02:30 PM

Sounds like from the news that is leaking out of Iran that the people are getting fed up with the Supreme Leader BS.They do not seem to want to let it go and who can blame them?
RU OX Alum, that is funny but who knows how true?
I love how some GOPers are saying The President should get more into the fray of another Countrys business. As a Republican, all I have to say is shut the f up. We do not need to be the ones who bring lighting and thunder down on another county! We have to much on our plate being the leaders of the free world. Republicans, you are looking more like asses than the Democrates! Water will find itsd own level as it will there. There are more civilians than military or police. Will be interesting to watch with out America getting involved.

KSUViolet06 06-22-2009 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdeason1 (Post 1818646)
Sounds like from the news that is leaking out of Iran that the people are getting fed up with the Supreme Leader BS.They do not seem to want to let it go and who can blame them?
RU OX Alum, that is funny but who knows how true?
I love how some GOPers are saying The President should get more into the fray of another Countrys business. As a Republican, all I have to say is shut the f up. We do not need to be the ones who bring lighting and thunder down on another county! We have to much on our plate being the leaders of the free world. Republicans, you are looking more like asses than the Democrates! Water will find itsd own level as it will there. There are more civilians than military or police. Will be interesting to watch with out America getting involved.

You = Tom.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:38 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.