Race & Sororities
 

Hi
I'm a bi-racial (black/white) female attending Ole Miss in the fall. I want to rush, but I don't want to limit myself to historically black sororities. Is race a deciding factor in most sororities? Are any of you members of sororities with members of a race other than the majority?

Any advice or information will be greatly appreciated.

Discretion is key. That's all I'll say about it.

Believe it or not all kinds of people (not just black) join the historically black organizations. We have a lot to offer and rich legacies so you would not be "limiting" yourself but yes, explore all the organizations you want to. Race is not as big as it once was in these orgs although things are different on different campuses and in different chapters. All you can do is be yourself and go for it and do the research. Good Luck.

Ditto this. Just don't make a big deal of race either way, and you should be ok.

I think at Ole Miss, this may not be true. Maybe OleMissGlitter will come by and comment on the racial make-up of the sororities at Ole Miss. I refuse to call any of the chapter members racists since the lack of non-white members may be due to a lack of non-white PNMs, but I can't remember seeing too may non-white members in the pictures from that campus. Can someone give this woman an honest answer? She can rush if she wants, but maybe she should have a realistic idea of her chances.

My sister was a Phi Mu at Ole Miss. Rushess are predominantely white, but they're not all blonde and blue-eyed. If you get my drift....that is why I advised the OP to just not mention it either way.

It's really sad that this is still an issue in today's world.

I agree it's sad, but realistically in the south it will be a problem for awhile longer. I'm ashamed to look back and know that my chapter would NEVER have pledged an African American member. It was the culture of the times, and I am shamed that I didn't find fault with it then.

As for not mentioning it, we have no idea what this woman looks like. Not all mixed race people can hide their ethnicity, nor do many of them want to.

Although this would ideally be the case, and is the case at the vast majority of colleges and universities, there are still some parts of the country where this view is hopelessly naive. I know full well that if I hadn't rushed where I did, that I may not have been accepted with open arms the way I was in my chapter.

Do you mean that she shouldn't ask them the question she asked GC?

Or do you mean that race is one of those topics like politics and religion that should be avoided, altogether. I don't agree with restricting topics like that but a lot of people do.

Why shouldn't it still be an issue? Has something changed and I wasn't sent the memo?

It will be a problem everywhere. Other regions just hide it better and people overlook the obvious because it makes them feel progressive.

All of these orgs are predominantly (insert race and ethnicity of the founders). There may be a bit more diversity at some chapters outside of the South but it's not enough difference to challenge the predominant racial makeup.

Oh, she meant for the OP to hide it? Hmmmm.

That's sad and has opposite than the desired effect. It makes race, ethnicity, and culture some kind of scarlet letter or controversial topic when it doesn't have to be. The way to make race not a bad thing is NOT to ignore it altogether. We all were taught some racial, ethnic, or cultural identities.

I totally agree. I grew up in the South, was educated in New England, and now I live in New York City. Ironically, I found that race relations are much better in the South than in NYC, in part because there is less segregation based on socioeconomics and national origin.

As has been mentioned, it may well be that a lack of non-white pnms is the cause of largely white chapters. That was the case at SMU - NPC sororities were criticized for not having any non-white members, and it was pointed out that there had been none who had gone through rush. Once some pnms of color went through, they were pledged. OP, perhaps you are the pioneer who can blaze a trail. If you are interested in what NPC sororities have to offer, I would encourage you to go through recruitment whether or not the current chapter make-up reflects your ethnic or racial background.

I did not mean for the OP to hide her race, I should have clarified... I would not make a mention of her race being a deciding factor to the sororities when obtaining recs or during rush. This was in response to her comment re: limiting herself.

I think it's probably difficult for any black woman to get a 100% fair rush in the South or parts of the Midwest, partly due to the fact that 99% of rushees are white. I went to a Big 12 with a very active Greek system and only recall 3-4 black rushees coming through while I was on the chapter side of rush. They all got bids to decent houses.

you might be pleasantly surprised cbm, that many southern chapters have members of ethnicities other than caucasian.

I'd be interested as to what exactly you are basing this on - first, what do you define as "100% fair rush"? There are plenty of white women who don't feel they had "100% fair rush". Trust me - their mothers will come here and complain about it. :cool: There are many reasons why any woman, black, white, purple or green, might not be extended a bid to a sorority. Legacies are cut on a regular basis - does that mean they weren't given a "100% fair rush"? Unless you were in the membership selection of a particular chapter, you cannot say with any certainty why a pnm was not invited back or given a bid. Is it possible race could be a factor? Of course - but you shouldn't present what is a possibility as a fact.

Not knowing ANYTHING about the membership selection of the chapters in the South and Midwest you reference, and also not knowing ANYTHING about the black pnms who do go through recruitment, you really should not make a gross generalization like this. It's the kind of comment which could influence black women and convince them there is no point in going through recruitment. Then the problem becomes a vicious circle. No black pnms go through recruitment, so chapters remain largely white.

I personally know of many southern and midwestern G Phi Bs of color - a veritible rainbow of sisters. The best way to solve the issue of race is to encourage women to go through recruitment - not telling them it is "probably" difficult based simply on your gut instinct. By your own admission, in the seemingly enlightened Big 12 you only had 3 - 4 black pnms going through - so why aren't there more? And does that mean your chapters are 99% white? If so, does that mean it is because of racism?

I would have to pretty much agree with SWTXBelle on her above post.

I know countless "white" females that don't meet with success during recruitment and what do we say about that? When it comes to "people of color" (and I mean any other color than one classified as "white") really think about how many people go through recruitment. In most cases (notice I say most), we do know if you go through the process you will be placed somewhere. Maybe it is just that "people of color" choose not to go through recruitment for numerous reasons.

To even begin to bring the thought of racism into it is quite sad. We definitely do not know the selection process in every single sorority on every campus. Might there be some that would not vote for a "person of color" - sure. It could very well be that same group that does not vote many white people into their membership. (Is it then fair for those white PNM's) To say some of the things that have been said truly keep women from even entering the process and as a result, keep "people of color" from pledging.

It is hard on some campuses to be "white" and be selected into membership. I truly feel each woman needs to stand on her own two feet with confidence and go through the system. It is with great hope that this person does go through rush and give the process a chance. I wish her the very best and I hope she comes back and tells us all about her experiences.

I cannot speak for Ole Miss but I can assure you that many large national sororities have multi-cultural members. Both my daughters attended a large southern university and were members of a large national sorority. They had white, hispanic, asian and black sisters. Don't be surprised to see the same thing at other large southern universities. Racism is not dead, of course, but it is not really as big a factor down south as people presume.

On the campus where I was an active member being non-white actually helped a PNM, though that in itself isn't really fair to them. But very few non-white PNM's go through recruitment every year. And my campus is in the deep south.

Ole Miss is a campus and a Greek system that is steeped in old traditions. That being said, you will never know what will happen unless you give it a try. The best advice I can give you is be the best PNM you can be. Get recs (they will be a must), polish your conversation skills, have a stellar GPA, be involved, and with regards to race, do not make it an issue. Just be true to yourself and show them what you have to offer as a new member. Also, since Ole Miss does rush a little later in the semester, be on your best behavior when out and about in Oxford.

Also, since Ole Miss is a competitive campus, I would advise that you be discreet and not advertise your name and school too much. Just to be on the safe side. Good luck!

Thank you all!
I've read many good answers.
I like the ones that aren't sugar-coated.
I will rush!
Even if I don't make it, everything will be fine.
I'm strong enough to handle it.
Thanks for the help guys!

Agreed. Though I have no insight into the demographic makeup of our Ole Miss chapter today, I worked with their founding mothers during our Ole Miss colonization several years ago. I was proud that they included women from a variety of backgrounds including women of color.

To the OP, keep all your options open: NPC, NPHC, multi-cultural orgs, and service orgs. Ole Miss has so much to offer!

I beg to differ. Racism, especially in the South, is as big a factor as people DO and TEND TO presume. I went to school in the South, the Heart of Dixie, and lemme tell you, it wasn't easy, pretty, or damn right at times! When you can still go into courthouses in the south, and if you look hard enough (which sometimes isn't too hard) and you can still see a door that says "Colored Only" then you'll KNOW that racism is still an issue and it's still a HUGE factor in the SOUTH.
Why do you think that MOST HBCU's are in the south? I don't know of many on the West Coast and very few on the upper East Coast.
Racism will always be a factor and it depends on HOW the person makes a choice to deal with it when a) it's presented to them overtly, b) it's presented to them covertly, c) their constantly reminded through daily actions of others, and d) it's a factor within the persons surroundings and enviornment.
So to say that it's not a true factor DOWN SOUTH, you are presuming very much. Sometimes, they saying of "Walk a mile in my shoes" turns out to be more true than what a person tends to "want" to think.

"Not really as big a factor...as people assume" versus "HUGE" are subjective and unnecessary distinctions. He acknowledged that it isn't dead, so you agree with him.

And the interesting thing is that you agree without his needing to wear your shoes. Woohoo!

Most of the HBCUs are in the south because at the time of their founding black students could not attend HWCUs in the south. That is no longer the case. So to argue that most HBCUs are in the south because of continuing racism is wrong - these same HBCUs are now struggling. Is that because racism is no longer an issue? If they go under, does that mean racism is dead?

I know of ONE courthouse that had a sign that could be seen and which was in the news a few years back - it is of course no longer there. Where are these others?

My point - and others - is that it is wrong to assume that racism is more of a problem in the south, or that the other parts of the country are free from them. By arguing that it is the south that has a problem, you give everyone else a free pass. Some sociologists have said that the south is in many ways more in touch with the problem of racism because of its past problems - that other areas of the country have a more "hidden" racism, that it can be argued is more toxic and damaging. In the context of this OP - you can ASSUME that racism means a bi-racial woman would never get a bid at Ole Miss, but until you go through recruitment you won't KNOW - and even then, you wouldn't know that it was because of race. It may be that at a school which has no blacks in the NPC sororities it isn't because of racism, but because of a strong NPHC system.

Yeah the HBCU example isn't a really good one. HBCUs are remnants of individual and institutional racism. They are struggling as are many traditional institutions of the "Black community" that thrived during a time when exclusion was more overtly prevalent. Some see this struggle to mean that Blacks no longer need HBCUs, or any other traditional institution, because racism is dead. That's a faulty logical leap which is inaccurate based on the data. But, there is a sound premise regarding what it means when institutions decline in significance.

A better example would be to address the conditions that most of these HBCUs are in and the surrounding communities. It is no coincidence that most of these HBCUs service a disproportionately low income demographic and are in low income surroundings. That's the intersection of race and social class in this highly segregated society. Along with that comes socioeconomic exclusion that perpetuates the disproportionately Black underclass. THAT is what majority-minority racism is really about in the past generation--NOT about signs on doors, being called racial slurs, or whether a biracial woman will get a bid at Ole Miss. Those are relatively rare so they shouldn't be used as metrics.

Exactly, especially when you consider that at some HBCUs, the majority of graduate students are white because of programs in architecture, pharmacy, and agriculture.

A lot of people are saying that there are diverse chapters all over the country. No one is denying that. Again, private colleges and smaller state schools in the South with less of an entrenched native population are more open to integrating their chapters than others. The greek systems at Emory and Tulane are integrated--but that's probably because the schools pull a good chunk of their populations from the Northeast and West Coast.

But, what the OP needs to know is that at many of the flagship universities in the South, an African-American female who rushes may not be considered an "attractive" prospect by some of the top chapters (regardless of how awesome her personality, grades, and extracurrics are), and may end up being relegated to the bottom tier of chapters in her school. Now, we can be all kumbaya about that and say that maybe the bottom tier chapters would be more willing to look past race and see sisterhood. Or, we could go with a much more likely explanation--those lower tier sororities have much less to "lose" because their numbers are pretty low. I've seen this in play at some SEC and Big 12 schools.

not meaning to kumbaya, but while we might assume that an african-american pnm was not extended a bid by the most sought after chapter on campus was because she was african american, we don't know for sure unless we sat in on the membership selection. many factors are considered as chapters evaluate pnms for membership-race may or may not be one of those factors. noone, not even the blue-eyed blonde super model pre-med pnm has a guarantee that she will get a bid.

assuming that an african american pnm chose a lower tier npc chapter because that was all she could get and the chapter was just desperate for warm bodies does a disservice to the pnm and the chapter. who's to say that it was not love at first sight for the pnm and that chapter?

I don't mean this in a snarky way at all, but have any of the NPC sororities at Ole Miss ever had an African American or bi-racial member?

That can actually be used as an example of social exclusion, since the leadership and funding for most HBCUs don't come from Blacks. This would be based on outcome and not intent, so folks (not you) shouldn't respond with "they might not mean for it to be that way."

The higher up in HBCU faculty rankings and in the organizational structures, for some of the more esteemed HBCUs, the more nonBlacks you find than Blacks. I have actually been told by faculty that having more whites and other nonBlacks brings up their prestige ranking (which is arguably an informal/unwritten component of accreditation).

On the other hand, you will be hard pressed to find PWIs where a large proportion of the higher ranking faculty, higher ranking administrators, and most of the graduate students are Black. Even Research 1 PWIs with 20,000 students and lots of faculty only have a relatively few esteemed tenured "sprinkles." That's why there are still minority faculty and graduate student associations. Even PhDs with years of awards and recognitions know the deal. As for grad students, a large % may be nonwhite, but usually not Black.

(Of course, much of this also has to do with population sizes for whites as compared to Blacks, which is another reason why the larger universities are PWIs)

[QUOTE=LadyLonghorn;1809824]I don't mean this in a snarky way at all, but have any of the NPC sororities at Ole Miss ever had an African American or bi-racial member?[/QUOTE


I think this will be tough to answer, because NPC groups do not keep records according to race. An Ole Miss alum might be able to report on his/her experience, but that would both subjective and not necessarily representative.

Do you think this has anything to do with region or discipline, or even Masters programs over PhD programs? Granted, my individual graduate school (Architecture) was overwhelmingly majority white and Asian, but there were other schools (ex. Social Work and Public Health) within the University that had more blacks and Latinos than whites and Asians.

But, we all know that sometimes that IS the case. I've seen it happen over and over at specific campuses--and although we also like to talk about how membership selection is the private business of the chapter, let's not pretend that there are chapter members who are less than discreet about their membership selection! :)

The general pattern exists across region, discipline, and graduate program. General patterns aren't meant to apply to 100% of the cases.

Let's take disciplines like social work and the social sciences, in general, which had a sharp increase in minorities and women over the last 30 years. Social work, for example, is now considered a non-traditional field for men, which now translates to it being one of the lower paying specializations for women depending on the research, teaching, and practitioner base.

Even with the increase in women and minorities, there are (women and racial and ethnic) minority faculty and student organizations to serves as networking tools, and to address concerns. Many of these faculty feel they are unable to climb the ranks in white and/or white male dominated field and/or department. Part of that is because most of these women and racial and ethnic minorities aren't the key decision makers. Students often don't notice that a lot of the diverse faces they see are either adjunct, nontenured full-time faculty, and are overworked and underpaid in comparison to the other faculty in the department and/or university. Even the tenured minority faculty often don't become department heads and graduate directors--unless the departments have no other alternatives--they often don't have a voice in the department and are on the sidelines doing research/teaching/mentoring.

And, in my experience, sometimes those same chapter members (the ones who are not discreet) are the same ones who really don't know what they are talking about - they may run around saying "We didn't bid So-n-so because she is black", but 1.) this is a stupid person, so take everything she says with a grain of salt :rolleyes: and 2.) that may have been discussed, but ultimately it comes down to a vote, and no one can say with 100% certainty why their sisters chose to vote the way they did - yet another reason to NEVER DISCUSS MEMBERSHIP SELECTION.

Definitely don't discuss membership selection with nonmembers.

But, the decision making process isn't such a mystery in many instances. Many chapters talk to each other in great detail about how they feel about applicants and why they voted. Some chapters are simply unfortunate enough to have members who tell chapter business.

To be blunt, race is an issue...and it will/can/does become an issue when one is trying to gain access in a org that is predominantly one race.......just being realistic, but good luck. And don't think that black sororities don't have members of other races in them as my organization has plenty of indviduals of other races and we look past that.......we look for your drive, high character, leadership skills and commitment.....color does not dictate that...

Which is it? That race is an issue if you are "trying to gain access in a(sic) org that is predominantly one race"(for example, your predominantly black GLO) or that it is possible for a GLO to "look for your drive, high character, leadership skills and commitment.....(sic) color does not dictate that". ?

An issue? Yes, it can be - but , if I may tweak your own words - don't think that white sororities don't have members of other races in them as my organization (NPC) has plenty of individuals of other races. We look past that. We look for your drive, high character, leadership skills and commitment. Color does not dictate that.:)