Princeton discourages freshman from joining fraternities and sororities
 

As the University prepares to welcome another class of incoming freshmen, these members of the Class of 2013 will receive a letter from Dean of Undergraduate Students Kathleen Deignan and Vice President for Campus Life Janet Dickerson over the summer informing them that the University does not support fraternities and sororities on campus.

President Tilghman said in an interview last Wednesday that the administration continues to discourage incoming students from participating in Greek life on campus because she believes it restricts students’ social lives....

http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/2009/04/29/23574/

:rolleyes:

What an insulting article. The university officials completely fail to mention all the community service Greeks do and the academic support they provide for their members. Nothing against dance groups or sports teams, which wonderful in their own right, but Greeks add a lot to the community, too!

Also, does anyone know what "Bicker" is? Or "eating clubs"? That part of the article was kind of confusing.

The eating clubs seem similar to Greek local groups anyway, but I guess they're exempt from criticism because they're traditional. Insert rolleyes emoticon here.

(There's a useful article about them in Wikipedia.)

The Greek collegians should print out copies of the letter to send to their alumni. I wonder how much money to the school comes from Greek donors?

An Eating Club is a social organization at Princeton (I believe similar to the finals clubs at Harvard).

They've been sening that letter out for a few years now. It just kind of goes with the territory.

Bicker is the bidding process of Eating Clubs. Eating Clubs are similar to fraternites and sororities in that they may have a physical house, sponsor programs and provide a home away from home. Some clubs are exclusive and have a bicker process while other are "open" and pick members based on a lottery system.

Nothing new here. This has been the case at Princeton for some time. The reality is that at Princeton, Greek life simply isn't as big as at some other schools. Not to say that the experiences of Princeton Greeks aren't enhanced by Greek life, but fraternities and sororities are not at the center of the social orbit at Princeton; eating clubs are. As I understand it, most Greeks at Princeton also belong to an eating club.

Right. Eating clubs are the centers of social life at Princeton. "Bicker" is the process, comparable to rush, by which one joins the selective eating clubs.

The Wiki article on Eating Clubs.

Exactly - at some point you have to pick you battles, and Princeton just isn't a place to battle this out. Some schools are less friendly to Greek Life, and Princeton is one of them. They've been sending out letters (or at least communicating those sentiments) since the late 90s, and they're not going to stop any time soon.

I agree. As it turns out anyway, there are chapters that thrive at Princeton--NPHC chapters come to mind immediately, but there are others as well. They simply aren't recognized by the University.

TEITY?

I'm guessing yes - they also posted in the LXA forum. Busted!

I was thinking the exact same thing......

My ex went to Princeton and the eating clubs are WORSE than any imaginable form of greek life..to me anyways. I visited Princeton about 5 years ago and what I did see of the clubs was nasty! During the day you have to be a member of the club to get in..but at night you can bring anyone bc it was basically an orgy with heavy drinking on the side. Disgusting. I couldnt believe that one of the most prestigious universities in the world let this go on. My ex joined the Tiger Inn eating club his sophomore year, soon after he dumped me.

I do remmember him saying that the fraternities and sororities basically were underground and didnt really exist there....so strange.

nice. Lets join a fraternity that's "not" a fraternity. I just read the article on wikipedia.

looks like a duck, quacks like a duck....

Same poo, different day.

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...ight=princeton

Bicker is like rush.

At Princeton the greeks are pretty much invisible. The eating clubs are a combo fraternity/sorority, dorm, dining hall. The clubs look like small dorms and they are coed.

I don't think that academic support is really an issue at Princeton.
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Blondibondar

Perhaps Princeton, like many many other institutions, does not want to alienate wealthy alumni. Since virtually everyone at Princeton joins an eating club, that's potentially a lot of donated money that could be lost by heavily sanctioning/getting rid of the eating clubs. Princeton, despite having a cost of attendance that rivals the median household income in this country, guarantees that students don't have to take out a single loan while they're enrolled. Where do you think that money comes from? Monopoly?

Again, I don't see why this bothers so many people. There are still NPC/NIC greeks, they're just not recognized by the University. If you want to join, you still can!

Sororities at Princeton can't be too underground. Cate Edwards (Johns Edwards' daughter) and Moira Forbes (Steve Forbes' daughter) were Pi Phis at Princeton.

The funny thing, how many people didn't know there was Greek life at Princeton before they got the letter? If it were me, that would prompt me to research it and then go Greek in the end anyway. :rolleyes:

I think if my ex read this he would laugh...although he had scholarships, he still had to take out loans, last he told me he was in debt by six digits, hopefully he was exaggerating! :eek: But why cant they just have the eating clubs and greek life live in peace and harmony? Why shun one and not the other? Im pretty sure greek life does more good than those clubs..

ah, they're just jealous.

You mean the eating clubs, some of which are older than many fraternities?

Welcome to the Ivy League, where they like to be a bit more like Oxford or Cambridge.

I understand that they may be older - but the article talks trash about fraternities and sororities.... when it's essentially the same thing. Of course, this is the only school with these clubs (that I'm aware of, correct me if I'm wrong), they are essentially like a local organization, so the benefit of an alumni association wherever you go is not always there, and some people have never even heard of them. I know I sure hadn't not until it was posted on this thread yesterday.

There are benefits to being greek, and I just think it's really snooty of the article to bash greek life, when, as someone else already said, it's very similar. Seriously whats the difference? other than being co-ed....

Some other schools have something like them -- Harvard's finals clubs, for example. It's an Ivy League, Ivy-like sort of thing.

I see what you're saying, but I think it shows some lack of understanding about these schools. Sure they are like local organizations, so there isn't the benefit of a national alumni association.

But this is Princeton we're talking about -- we're talking about a school ethos that doesn't really want national organizations or care about what anyone else has. Nothing beats the Princeton connection, in that view. (If you need confirmation of that, ask any Princeton grad. :D) Why have Greek networking-ability when you'll have the Princeton network? Why go for the experience you can have at any (good) State University when you can have the experience unique to Princeton? It's just another way of setting Princeton up as different and, in the view of many Princetonians, better, more like the "gold standards" of Oxford and Cambridge.
In other words, the difference is that these are Princeton clubs (in the most gentlemanly sense of the word), not organizations that you and a student at East Podunk can both join. So everyone hasn't heard of them -- the people that matter have. ;)

I completely agree with your view of the value of Greek orgs in general and national Greek orgs in particular. And I hate to see any school shut out Greek life of any kind. But I can also respect the other institutions that may be deeply woven into a schools life without calling it a "fraternity that's 'not' a fraternity."

ETA: This post may not come across quite as tounge-in-check as I intended. In my more serious moments, I can say that the eating clubs are venerable institutions with colorful histories, and that it is a mistake to infer that they are simply fraternity-wannabes without the Greek letters.

In my less serious moments, I am bemused that anyone would be in the least bit surprised to see this "we're different from everyone else and our own institutions are more than sufficient, if not better" attitude coming from Princeton. That's just seems like being surprised at seeing a peacock preen.

They're not underground. They are unrecognized by the school. Two very different things. "Underground" implies they are hiding their existence from the school and/or not in good standing with their national HQ, neither of which is the case at Princeton.

In addition to some of the Ivy League Schools, Rice University in Houston has groups that are similar to these Supper Clubs. While there is nothing comparable to recruitment/bickering (students are assigned to one of the "colleges") the rest of their existence is the same. There is housing, meal service, and all university competitions is based upon the college that you are in. Each college has its own colors, symbols, cheer, etc. In addition, the question at Rice is not "What is your major?" Instead it is "What college are you in?"

At present there are no fraternities or sororities at Rice, and there does not seem to be much interest for such. My husband, who is an alumni of Rice, does not understand my sorority experience. I don't understand his "college" experience. However, we both respect that each system worked for each of us and that is enough.

Seriously, mods, isn't it time for another exorcism?

Harvard's final clubs are often mentioned as a comparator to Princeton's eating clubs, but the clubs at Princeton are the center of undergrad life rather than a niche. In some ways the eating clubs are more like the Harvard Houses, which is where all the upperclassmen eat and have their social lives.
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Sweet_Pupsik Cam

Princeton had banned greeks until the 1980's I believe, insted the eating clubs popped up. They're greek orgs without the letters basically. My understanding is that anti greek universities usually have two problems.

1: the animal house image, which probably represents 1% of greeks, but its the loud 1%.
2: When the court cases came down with "In Loco Parentis" meaning that in the absence of a students parents, the college will act as their parent. It basically puts liability, to a certain degree, on the campus depending on the situation.

Good point. Thanks.

Except that unless I'm mistaken, the eating houses came into existence before it was common for fraternities to have houses or serve meals.

Lets also remember that almost none of the elite liberal arts colleges such as Williams, Amherst and Middlebury have GLOs. They have gone even further than Princeton and banned them entirely. They have no problem attracting the very best students.

The definition of "very best" depends on your opinion.