Obama's bow to the Saudi King
 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/dead...apr/09/usa-g20

How does everyone on here feel about it? I know the White House claims that he didn't bow but watching the video I just can't see any other explanation for it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEUif...eature=related

The bow itself doesn't offend me nearly as much as the White House blatantly lying about it and saying that he was bending down to shake the hand of someone shorter. Either he was shaking the left hand of a midget who is invisible in the video while simultaneously shaking the right hand of the Saudi King or we were all lied to.

I simply don't understand why the White House has lied about this and two days ago angrily dismissed a reporter's question about it. Bowing to a foreign dignitary violates State Department protocol but I don't think that's serious enough to lie about.

Hard to really tell from the angle but I don't see the big deal.

This is as bad a Michelle hugging the Queen...I mean really, people, is it that deep!!!

What we should be mad about is that for an Ipod full of (hopefully DRMed) music all he got in return was a picture!

Hehe!

Umm he definitely bowed, and his left hand was nowhere near the floor. I guess I can understand how it violates protocol, even though other countries would see it as a sign of respect. That was a definite bow, though...

We don’t dip our flag to other countries and our president should not be bowing to “royalty.”

Eh, not such a big deal to me. But, people have always made big deals of little mistakes by Presidents; heck, people were all over the last President Bush's verbal gaffes. It's just what comes with being President, everything's under the microscope.

An American citizen does not bow to any foreign leader; the American Flag does not dip to any foreign power.

In response, no one touches the Queen of England. Have you never seen when Prince Charles was a child, and bowed to his mother, as she disembarked from a plane? It's just not done. The bob of the head that the Obamas gave to the Queen were, IMHO, appropriate and not over the top.

In all honesty, I have serious doubts about the current Protocol Office. I think Big Bird has a better idea of protocol than they do.

The only other option is that the Protocol Office's advice is being steadily ignored. If that's the case, maybe we should save some money and fire them all.

I agree that he definitely bowed but WHY did the White House LIE about it?

That is what bothers me more than the bow itself (which bothers me). I mean of all of the foreign leaders to bow to... the King of Saudi Arabia shouldn't be anywhere near the top of the list for so many reasons.

wait...didnt they do a bow before the Queen last week?

where was the outrage then?

The only people I see getting seriously bent out of shape over this are the conservatives

maybe a shoe throw will balance things out a bit

Time's explanation

You want to talk about a real snub?

Obama will not throw out the first pitch at the Nats opener next week as he is 'preparing' for a trip...and is a White Sox fan.

This is a great insult to the "Nation's Team"

two posts above yours

and PhiGam, the white house lies because the white lies

You notice it because it's not your guy in there, so you're more objective now, but soon you'll learn that they all lie.

Thanks as per usual...;)

And in the article it stated how Bush gave an inappropiate handshake to Abdullah years ago...so...?

What's the problem?

BTW approx 20,000 fewer people applied for unemployment last week

That's cuz people are moving out of Michigan and finding jobs in flourishing cities/states. Our unemployment increases by the thousands. I still don't see anything happening with that, just more foreclosures.

Like I said, people get bent out of shape when they think the President wasn't following proper protocol or tradition. They've done it with past Presidents, and they're going to do it with the current President.

People were all over Bush when they thought he made a verbal gaffe or breached custom in another country....I think you may have even posted in a couple of those threads. ;)

Unfortunately, it just comes with the job.

As for the unemployment figures, that's great; at the end of the day, President Obama will get more credit than he deserves or more blame than he deserves for the economic cycles, just like every other President.

Obama's a White Sox fan? Seriously? For whatever reason I would have pegged him for a Cubbies fan.

If that's the case, he should be reprimanded in some way. However, I don't have a problem with an American actually showing some deference and respect.

.

Reprimanded by who? No one is above the president...that's why people are getting upset. However, I believe the president is making a point of showing that he will not take orders from anyone, let alone a "protocol office," when he believes in doing things a certain way. I don't think that's necessarily right...things he perhaps sees as no big deal, yet become big distractions, could avoid some controversay if he would just listen to some folks' advice.

I did notice the bow - more like a slight bend at the waist rather than a full bow I'd say - when I first saw the video a week or so ago. For a full second I thought, "Hm, that's not really right," but then I dismissed it as not a big deal. Obama is trying to show respect for other world leaders, and greeting them in the way they are probably greeted by others normally is his way of showing them respect. If people watched the whole video, they'd notice that he said a few words in arabic to the saudi king, also. I'd like to see how he greets the Japanese contingent, because even business leaders are bowed to there.

Bottom line: I would rather have a president who attempts to relate to or honor other countries' customs when in their presence than a president who ignores or insults their culture through ignorance. But that's why I find some of the slights of protocol interesting - Obama goes out of his way to acknowledge the Saudi king in a way he's accustomed to, yet Michelle Obama basically hugs the queen like she's an old chum. It just seems like they would know better than that; perhaps they're getting carried away at some of these events, let their guard down, and forget what they've been "trained" to do. They ARE new at this.

I agree. Neither "breech" of protocol bothers me so much as the stark contrasts of the two; Obamas bow vs. Michelles hug.... Lets just get on one accord ppl, please.

No, he did not bow to the queen. But you somehow don't think that he bowed to the King of SA either...

And I somehow dont think this thread is useful anymore also

PeppyG hit it on the nail

I have a question, are you being serious with this remark? My sarcasto-meter has been off lately, so I don't know if this is some kind of joke, or if you seriously think that an American citizen shouldn't bow to a foreign leader.

That is actually protocol... while I'm not sure how I feel about ordinary citizens, I definitely don't think that the President should bow to any foreign leader.
To me a bow is a sign of subjection and submission... so bowing to such a horrible man is disgraceful. Saudi Arabia enforces sexist Shari'a laws, if Obama did not bow to the emperor of Japan or the leaders of the EU nations then he definitely shouldn't have bowed to this asshole.

Well I can understand it being protocol for the President (although there are times that I don't agree with it). I was more concerned cause honeychile said "citizen" and that is what I don't agree with.

I don't think a bow to the Emperor of Japan would be that out of line.

Don't really feel comfortable with what I saw in that video though.

Has he been treating other leaders with the same "respect" that he treated Saudi's King? I haven't really read anything about it.

Either way, It can't be ruled out that now he doesn't have any foreign relations experience...LOL

We're still talking about this?

On the morning talk show on our local rock station, they were discussing this. More people were pissed off that the White House lied and said he didn't bow, than the fact that he did.

Some called in with excuses for it. Lol one lady thinks he farted. One thinks that he had bad stomach cramping. Obviously they weren't being serious.

Heads of State do not "kow tow" to each other. A "court bow" (quick inclination of the head but not the shoulders) is the way it should be done. It conveys respect while the deep bow suggests subservience, which is why State Department Protocol advises against it.
The President is our Head of State so it was just an unfortunate faux pas. The intricate nature of diplomatic nuances is confusing enough to professional diplomats. The President is really new to this specific aspect of political life so there is a learning curve to be surmounted. I am confident he did not mean to imply subservience so he just needs better briefers to explain the nuances and not just try to tell him what to do.
Some time back I had the opportunity to meet several members of the British Royal Family on a few occasions when I was stationed in the UK. When I was presented to HM the first time I was in uniform so I came to attention and saluted. She nodded in return and seeing my Cavalry insignia asked if I rode. I replied that unfortunately I was serving with an armored cavalry regiment and there were very few opportunities for proper riding. Very informal yet in a very formal setting.
The second time was at Oxford. I was in civilian clothes so I stood straight, gave a quick nod of my head and waited until she extended her hand. Much to my surprise she asked me if I had found the opportunity to ride a bit since our last conversation. I did not see anyone prompt her and I was amazed that she remembered a brief conversation from several months earlier. Then, to finish me off completely, HRH Prince Philip cut in and suggested that perhaps something could be arranged for me to ride "whilst" at Oxford. He then asked if I had my "kit" with me or should he have his equerry organise something suitable.
Needless to say I was amazed and completely snowed. But then again, they have been at the game for many many years and know just how to stay formal while putting everyone at ease.

OK, bottom line. I didn't like seeing the President bow so low to a foreign head of state, but two things occur to me. First, let's cut him some slack, he has a lot to pick up on while running the country in a time of great challenges. Second, he is the President and while I hope he doesn't do this sort of thing all the time I figure he can set the rules since he IS the President.

I agree with you 100%. Because of the history and tradition surrounding the Japanese emperor and the fact that Japan is very friendly and open economically with our country I would also be OK with that.

Yes, I know its blasphemous to talk about the all-powerful savior Obama but some of us don't appreciate being lied to or our leader bowing to such a horrible man.

Seriously? You don't have a clue about my political leanings. I just don't believe in beating a dead horse.

So keep bumping the thread... that will change everything.

pretty much.

the dems had a field day with bush for 8 years.

the reeps will do the same with obama.

there are bigger things in life, and he's still the president.

"September 4th 2001. I stood in the ruins of the twin towers. It is a day i will never forget."

"Too many good docs are getting out of the business. Too many OB-GYNs aren't able to practice their love with women all across this country."

no amount of bowing will EVER make up for these two gems.

Bush's verbal gaffes were funny, this is not.

he hardly did them for entertainment. he is an idiot. obama made a mistake (if you want to call it that). big difference.

So Bush's mistakes in which he unintentionally either mis-spoke or said a sentence that sounded funny make him an idiot. An idiot with degrees from both Harvard and Yale I might add.

Obama's "mistake" in which he intentionally bowed to the King of Saudi Arabia is ok though.

You are right about one thing- there IS a big difference.

Just because one has an Ivy League education doesn't make them any less of an idiot.

Why are you still harping on this?

You got another 4 years to catalog Obama's gaffes if you so desire...let this one go.

there are plenty of "idiots" with degrees with harvard and yale. bush was a repeat offender. if you really want, one could go through 8 years of political gaffes. it's ok if you dislike obama, but your severe bias is showing.

i never said obama's mistake was ok. however, i'm not getting bent out of shape because of it. i don't think you want to compare obama's and bush's educational records. one is a lesson in mediocrity, the other isn't.

because he's being petty and attempting to "get back" at the democrats.

PhiGam, why do you hate America?