Married women can't join sororities???
 

I was reading through some of the older posts on this board the other day, and I came across a few that bothered me. If I'm reading them correctly ~ married women, in general, are not allowed to join NPC sororities. If you get engaged or married while an active member, you can remain as an active member, but you can't join as a new member if you're married.

As I understand it from these posts, the problem is time. Academics, as we all know, should be a college student's top priority. Second priority might be a job, followed by a sorority or fraternity, followed by other activities.

What I don't understand, is why the determination seems to have been pre-made that a married woman can't manage her time well enough to spend time on her studies, with her sorority, and with her husband. Having a husband doesn't require a vastly different time commitment, in terms of number of hours per week, than having a boyfriend or fiance. If anything, being engaged requires the most time, because you're planning a wedding in the midst of everything else.

So I'm a little confused as to why potential new members would be excluded simply because of their marital status.

I'd also like to know if any fraternities exclude married men on similar grounds. I gather that NPHC groups do not have this rule, is that correct?

I'm just curious ~ it sounds like a silly reason to exclude potentially great sisters...

Kappa Sigma Doesn't . . .
 

We don't have a rule eliminating any male that is a student in good standing at an institution of higher learning that confers a four year degree and has a Kappa Sigma chapter.

IT smacks of discrimination, ethically if not legally.

Kappa Sigma isn't
 

James, she is talking about sororities. Sororites are for women to join. Women, you know...those scary things, with breasts.

I went through recruitment last fall, and in my group was a woman who was married. She ended up dropping out by her own choice, but I don't think the fact that she was married would have prevented her from receiving any bids.

Re: Kappa Sigma isn't
 

Oops sorry thought she asked about Fraternity practices also:).

They sure can!
 

A sister in my pledge class was already married when she joined Alpha Gamma Delta.

Because Nancy was a full-time student at UH, she had the option of joining as an undergraduate or joining as an alumnae initiate. She chose the first because she was still a sophomore and knew that she was going to be able to contribute as much as a collegian could. And she did!

The only things that she might've missed out on were the unofficial sisterhood stuff....movie nights....taco nights...basic going out stuff. Because she had a husband and a home to tend to it made it somewhat difficult to do what the rest of the sisters were doing...but that didn't affect her love for her sisters and for the Fraternity at all!

I think this was possible because she had the full support of her husband and she was great when it came time for managing finances and her time!

So yes, it can be done!

D Phi E has no rules against married women joining! If they are a full-time student in at a four year university where we exist, they are more than welcome to go through recruitment. I would think this isn't exaclty legal, nor ethical.

DZ allows it...
 

Delta Zeta doesn't discriminate against married women. Although I personally have never met a sister who pledged while married, I have heard of several instances on other campuses where it happened. Granted, it's not a common occurence, but it is certainly not looked down upon by the sorority. :)

Re: Married women can't join sororities???
 

You are correct!

Re: Kappa Sigma Doesn't . . .
 

I find this interesting. There are quite a few Kappa Sigs here who do not attend our University. Some are at the local community college, others are not in school at all.

They could be transfers, or people that were formerly initiated that live in the area . . . what School do you attend again?

Re: Kappa Sigma isn't
 

She could be asking that too. I was just messing with you :)

At our chapter we had a sister who went through rush and she was already married. Actually at another house the girl rushing her started talking about how all the sisters were talking about the girl that is married coming through rush and acting very snobby about it. In one of my classes there were two girls in it other than me that were in a sorority. Everyone in that class was married, it seemed. They were asking us if married women could join and they said No way, that in their sorority if you get married you HAVE to go alum. I proudly said that in my sorority, it isn't a problem, and if you get married while active, you always have the OPTION to go alum, but it is not mandatory.

James and Optimist Prime
 

*Technically* she *did* ask about fraternities! See the following quote form her original message:


"I'd also like to know if any fraternities exclude married men on similar grounds."

:):):)


......Kelly:)

I think in the 1950's, that was more the case, but times have changed and I think that restriction has been dropped (as evidenced by all the posts above, where married ladies have rushed and pledged!)

We had a married woman pledge - her hubby was actually a fraternity man most of us had known for a long time. I think maybe at the schools where being anything but a first semester freshman is a disadvantage, there may be an "unspoken" rule, but I highly doubt anything is written down (as has been mentioned, it could open the door to discrimination lawsuits).

Also, it would probably be very unlikely to see a married woman join at a campus where living in the house for several years.is required.

I'm not sure, but....
 

I'm not sure what the ZTA policy is, but my guess is that married women are allowed to become members of collegiate chapters. I believe that if an initiated wants to request alumna status (which releases her further financial obligations to the chapter just like if she graduated), getting married is one of the criteria that would allow her to qualify. My experience, as a married person (4 years after graduation), is that married women typically have different priorities and interests than unmarried women, but that of course is not a rule. A collegiate chapter benefits by keeping as many dues-paying members on their roll as possible, but I'm not sure whether there any issues that the national organization considers. I can tell you that a good friend at church who is in her late fifties told me that whe was living in the Alpha Gam house and had to get special permission from a national officer to live in the house after she was married. I believe her husband had to go overseas or something and she was still in school. On the other hand many married women are initiated into ZTA as special initiates, but these women have usually graduated from college many years ago.

I think in this case the unwritten rule might be pretty strong, especially if the woman is Rushing without knowing many of the girls in a chapter individualy. I have seen some really trivial reasons used to disqualify people and I could see this being a bigger issue in a lot of people's minds.

Hmm. I'll see if I can dig up the posts I was referring to ~ but what it looked like to me, is that the majority of NPC sororities have policies against married women joining as new members. If that's no longer the case, I'm glad to hear it. :)

To my knowledge, AEPhi does not exclude married new members. My chapter has never had a married new member, though we have had an engaged new member, and several sisters (myself included) have gotten engaged while remaining active sisters. In fact, sisters who get engaged (in my chapter) are not given the option to become alumnae!

And I did ask specifically about fraternities and NPHC fraternities and sororities, as well as NPC sororities. :)

A twist--what about an collegiate who gets pregnant (unmarried or not)?

I assume it isn't a rule, but like pledging an older new member, like a senior, the chapter may have reservations about it when they could pledge a freshman and have her for 4 years opposed to one.

Not real sure, I know my chapter has a married member so it may be up to individual chapters? I think I remember a few chapters at my school that it would be automatic alumnae, but that may be beacuse that is how it has always been, not really the rule, rather the tradition.

I'm a Sigma Kappa, and one of my pledge sisters is married. During rush she let everyone know that she was married and still received invites back from almost every sorority on campus (Delta Zeta, Kappa Delta, Phi Mu, Chi Omega, Alpha Phi). The only sorority she didn't receive an invite back from was Alpha Delta Pi (and I don't know if that was b/c she was married or b/c of other reasons). Her husband is in one of the better fraternities and they have no problem that he is married...Just thought I'd throw in my two cents.

We had this happen, actually. When I was a freshman one of our sisters who was a sophomore was pregnant....she was able to hide it for a long time but evenutally she went "inactive" for a semester to have the baby. She gave him up for adoption and came back the following fall and reaffiliated. I guess it wasn't seen as too big a deal at the time although I know there were some people who never felt the same about her. I lived in the house with her for awhile and I thought she was a very nice girl, just perhaps irresponsible. (Incidentally, a year or so later her badge was pulled for having a guy in her room at the house.....)

I am married and I joined Alpha Phi AFTER i married my husband. And My husband joined Phi Delta Theta after he married me....

Ok, I'm confused...(doesn't take much, but still! ;) ) Is this "married member" thing an NPC rule across the board or is it sorority specific?

I know that right now, my chapter of KD is looking to pledge a woman who is married...(she's 20 and transfered here for her junior year). I don't want to break any rules, but I know this woman could add a lot to our chapter!

I do not recall any married women going through rush when I was in school. However, I do remember occasionally a PNM who was engaged. I do not recall it hurting their chances of pledging. My only thought on this is some chapters have specific rules about living on the floor or in the house for x amount of years. If you were married, one would assume that you would not be able to meet this requirement. If you are at a school with a large amount of PNMs, I think it could possibly hurt a PNM who is married.

First, let me apologize for bumping up such an old thread! I did not want to create a new one as I know how irritating it is to rehash already discussed topics.

However, I have some specific questions regarding this thread and some other posts I saw around the site:

Why is it such a large issue if a PNM is married? I saw a lot of posts in a thread regarding a potential issue of a pregnant girl coming through that also reflected ideas concerning married girls and quite frankly, it bothered me. Young married women, without children, are entirely capable of contributing to a chapter successfully!

How should a PNM approach this issue during formal recruitment without sounding peculiar, too rehearsed, or being inappropriate?

How can a PNM offset any negativity associated with this apparent stigma?

Since this messageboard is comprised of members across the country, how does your region, campus, alma mater react to married PNMs? I am specifically interested in the south. I would reveal the state, but discretion is key and I do not want to run the risk of harming my recruitment chances.

I have already checked with my greek life office and there are no rules against it. I have also secured a recommendation to each house, have a high college GPA, involved with numerous activities, I have great hair ;), and I am getting the impression that all of those things just won't matter because I'm married. I would like hearing some of your opinions and thoughts on the situation in general (since it has been awhile!) and maybe some advice regarding mine.

Thank you for your time ladies and gentlemen.

I don't think dg has any rules against it. I think once you're married you have the option of taking alumnae status but I don't think its required.

It will really vary by campus. On a more non-traditional campus, it will probably be more accepted but there are some possible inherent barriers:
1) In many groups, you have the option of the alumna status when you get married as a collegian (some may require it), so there could be an issue with retention of membership. Collegiate chapters are limited in how many women that they can take, so they are going to be more likely to take women who are more likely to stay active in the chapter for 4 years. A married woman could choose to go alumna at any time. This is also why sophomores and juniors at some schools have fewer options for sorority membership...chapters are looking for women who can contribute for 4 years to provide stability and consistency in a chapter.
2) If there is a house, members are expected to live in the house at some point during their sorority membership. Obviously, a married woman isn't going to live in a sorority house, so she becomes a less desirable choice if there are problems with keeping a house filled.
3) Concerns about priorities/time committments. While all sororities put family, school and work (to a degree) above the sorority, most members are college students who have few family committments because they are living away at school, a member who is married is more likely to have family committments that will take away from the time and energy that she can put into the chapter.
4) A married woman is probably less likely to engage in the social aspect of the sorority (like Fraternity mixers). If a chapter had a large number of married women, this could be a hindrance in which fraternities would have mixers with them because the number of women attending such functions would decrease.


On a more urban commuter campus (like Wayne State University in Detroit) where a lot of the students are non-traditoinal, it's less of an issue, but those are some of the reasons that chapters would be hesitant. I'm sure there have been married members who had very supportive husbands and who contributed strongly to a chapter, just as there have been members with a child who handled it all, it's just more rare and probably more of a challenge for those members.

It honestly depends on the competitiveness of the recruitment and the attitude of the chapter. If it's a highly competitive recruitment, I would think that the general idea would be, "Yeah she's A, B, and C, but we have lots of girls who are A, B, and C who are NOT married." However, I don't think the majority of recruitments work this way.

The chapter may have misconceptions about married sisters, including that you may not want to fully participate in the social aspects of the sorority, that you may not have time to dedicate to their operations and functions, or that you are weird because you are married and want to join a sorority. (LOL I didn't say I believed any of those, just putting it out there.) So I would think that what you would need to do, during recruitment conversations, is do what you can to squelch those misconceptions.

At an appropriate moment in the conversation, you could mention your marriage, and then state that even though you are married, you still have lots of free time, you are still young and like to have lots of fun, you are looking for a way to get involved in college and take on leadership positions, your husband is really cool and likes to have fun also... you know, whatever you think might be viewed as a potential drawback for you. No overkill- just mentioning it will hopefully do the trick. Some scrutinizing rushers may have more questions, and I'm sure you can answer those affirmatively, further demonstrating that you would be an asset to the org. Of course, some rushers will probably just smile and say "yeah" and change the subject. But in the end, that's all you can do! (just being your own non-weird self should get rid of that last misconception!)

I had a sister who was engaged when she pledged and got married in the middle of her new member semester- she also got pregnant and had a baby while she was on the Exec board. She added so much to the chapter and I would hate if we had overlooked her for silly reasons.

a member is a member is a member. if you are down for the cause, you make time for it. single, engaged, or married, traditional, non-traditional. obviously, life happens too - no one is saying "you=XYZ, 24/7."

unless, at the ultra-competitive schools, that is how it is - you eat, breath and sh*t XYZ? someone be honest and say, "yes, my school is kinda like that" because i would imagine at a school where greek life is the law, there are chapters that are 24/7 on their grind and perhaps it wouldnt make sense to initiate someone who has other things in their life (ie. a husband, kids, their work/career even, if they run a business, or a full time athlete/traveller? caring for some other family member, etc) because chances are, they would almost never put the sorority first.

I guess it just doesn't make sense to me when people say something like "Well, SusiePNM is married and would not have time for the sorority... because she's married." I have no idea why that rubs me the wrong way, maybe because that sentiment reflects some archaic idea of a where women should belong in the world. I am married and I am incredibly active on campus, not once has someone questioned my ability to particpate in XYZ organization because of something as insignificant as marriage.

I am pretty much boggled at this concept that I may get rejected for something so dumb, when I know for a fact I would be a dedicated sister.

If you do not mind indulging me a bit more, please keep the comments coming. Thank you!

At my school, there are chapters like that. There are also chapters that aren't. That's the nice thing about having 18... they all have different time commitments required.

I don't think marriage is insignificant or dumb. Which is why I would (actually did) take pause when a maried rushee came through.

I did not mean marriage itself is dumb, just that it is a dumb reason to not consider someone as a quality PNM.

I think being married would affect a PNM's recruitment experience at highly competitive SEC campuses. Perhaps it shouldn't, but being married would set the PNM apart from most of the 18 year-old first year students who are rushing, and it itself will fall into that nebulous area of "fit" for a chapter.

Anything that puts you outside of the typical new member demographic may be a risk that the chapter doesn't want to fool with.

I'm not trying to say that it should have this effect, but I'm afraid it would have that effect.

I respect your point, but actually marriage would be a really sticky situation on certain campuses and a perfectly valid reason to give pause in considering an otherwise great PNM.

As a general rule of thumb, campus culture is going to be reflected in the Greek system. If you attend a school with a high proportion of married/older/otherwise nontrad. women, you're probably going to see chapters with a large number of these women as well. However, it's likely going to be a very different scenario if you attend a school where like 99% of undergrads are 18-23 and unmarried.

Here's the deal, and please bear with me as this isn't personal. My campus -- and Greek system -- was highly traditional as are many campuses in the South. The entire time I was there I only encountered TWO nontraditional (i.e. married) students, and neither were interested in sororities. Greek life, at my school, was highly structured around a "typical" student -- the events, meetings, activities, philanthropy were often scheduled starting in the early evenings and potentially going late at night. This kind of schedule is incredibly intense during your new member period.

So if I'm a nineteen year old member of a sorority, and I meet a married woman coming through recruitment, red flags are going to go up all over the place: "Is she going to be able to commit to activities that last all night when she has a husband at home? Is she going to be able to participate in weekend activities or is she going to have take care of household business? What if she decides to have a baby and drops out of the sorority? Is she going to make time to hang out at the chapter house sans husband? Will she tell her husband our ritual? I barely had time for anything else during my new member period -- let alone a husband, so how is this going to work?" etc. etc.

Please note that I don't have these ingrained notions about married women (I'm getting married myself, as it were), so I'll reiterate that this is nothing personal against you and I'm sure you're serious when you say you'd be a great member of a sorority. Honestly, though, it's all about the actives' perception of your committment ability. You can talk until you're blue in the face but still be seen as a committment risk. For the same reason that highly competitive chapters wouldn't bid ANYONE they saw as a committment risk, you might run into some problems.

And AlphaGamUGA has a point. As much as I dislike this mode of thinking, we have to look at the average college freshman or sophomore woman. If you're the only married woman they've ever really encountered at their school, they're going to have a knee-jerk reaction to it: "She's married? I don't know anyone else that's married and my age. That's so foreign to me, I can't relate to that. She's so different. That's so weird."

Immature? Yeah. Reality? Yeah.

But -- and this is my party line to anyone in a sticky recruitment situation -- you'll never really know until you try. Nobody knows what your campus is, and we could be totally wrong even though it's located in The South. If you can be comfortable with the fact that your marital status might, MIGHT be detrimental, then by all means -- go through recruitment. At the very least, you'll have some fun and meet some new people.