Question Re: Southern Rush
 

Here is a scenario I came up with and I wanted to run it past some of our GC ladies who were are) actives down south.

Say a girl wants to go to one of the schools with cut-throat rush (i.e. 'bama, UGa, LSU, etc) and is familiar enough with the houses there to know which one she would want to join if rush went perfectly. Just to use a random example, I'll use my house, Delta Zeta. So what she does is start her freshman year at XYZ University up north which does not have such a strong Greek system, pledge Delta Zeta, get initiated and then the next semester transfers to the southern school where she affiliates to the chapter she's wanted all along.

Have any of you ever heard of someone doing this? If I'm not mistaken, the new chapter would have to take a member in good standing (I think). I know it sounds like a lot of trouble, but I wondered if, given the level of competition, some women would actually do this?

Its probably possible and I am sure it happens. I have heard and seen where a couple of people where part of a GLO at another campus transfer and pledge up to a different GLO at the new university. I assume they never told the new university they were part of an GLO at the other campus.

Wow, you know, I havent ever heard of that, but I guess actually you could. As long as you are pledge DZ at your current school, stay in good standing and active both in your chapter and in your school, and transfer to a larger college and reaffiliate with your new chapter. It doesnt quite seem fair, but I guess it can happen!! Just curious, is this something you think is going on? I doubt there is anything that can be done to stop it. But I am sure if the current chapter saw something special in here to extend the bid, then her new chapter would love her just as much.

I've heard of it
 

I know of two girls who began at other schools with the intention of transferring to mine during their sophmore or junior years. They intentionally pledged weak houses at their first schools because they wanted to be in those orgs at my school. Problem was, the chapters at my school had to take a vote on accepting them for members, and voted not to do so. They were not obligated to accept them. The girls had to take alum status.

I know that when women pledge D Phi E, and then transfer, they are offered two options. 1) Join the new chapter if one exists on the campus they are transferring to or 2) go alumnae. I've never heard of such an absurd thing as voting to see if an initiated sister can join a chapter. How offensive to an initiated member!! But the scenario that you lay out is perfectly possible and probably does happen. Someone from one of those schools could tell us if this voting happens or not.

Many NPC groups require collegiate chapters to vote on accepting a transfer student from another chapter. It is not uncommon at all. An initiated, transferring sister has the option to affiliate with the local collegiate chapter or obtain alumnae status and participate on that level.

Barbara

I am almost positive that I remember seeing a post in the thread titled "LSU Rush" that talked about how girls will rush a sorority at one school where recruitment isn't so cut-throat. Once they pledge that sorority and become an initiated member, these girls will transfer to LSU just so that they can say I was a member of XYZ at LSU. Seems like a lot of work just to be able to say that they were a member of some school's most prestigious sorority.

I find this incredibly clever, using something that I would normally consider a liability (the association with a weak house at XYZ university--I'm sure most of you have had some contact with this) and then transfering to a place where the GLO is highly regarded. Especially in the south where rush is so competitive.

I find it very cruel however that the chapter wouldn't take them in. I mean isn't that one of the things our organizations always brag about: Lifelong brother/sister hood? and don't most people always take pride in the fact that they can meet a person from a different chapter and have a bond that is deeper than most anything? It seems to me that having to be held to a vote is contradictory to what GLO's say they stand for.

Now granted, I don't know how well the transition would go for someone transfering--chapters are all different, and it's very possible that one wouldn't like the members at the new chapter, plus it would be difficult to come in as a junior or senior particularly and enjoy the same bond that they were accustomed too. But still once a ______ always a _______.

I know someone personally who rushed and pledged Chi O at my school in California, where we were a diverse, good chapter-- she got initiated and pretty much immediately transferred to a large SEC school and affiliated.

KillarneyRose--

Actually, this happens quite a bit in the deep South, which is a major reason that chapter totals were instituted. A girl would pledge AB at a medium-sized school with the intention to transfer right after initiation, usually in the sophomore year...some sororities ended up unfairly huge due to transfers.

Most national GLOs now require a chapter vote for this very reason and others. I started a thread on affiliation about a year ago because I had mixed feelings on it. On one hand, seems like once an AB, always an AB; on the other hand, I saw some pretty awful girls try that routine to get into desirable groups at Auburn. Like a girl with a really slutty rep would think it was her ticket to this sweet, highly Christian group and frankly, you couldn't blame them for turning her down. (And it was always obvious in cases like this that the girl just wanted to wear the letters, not help give the group a great reputation.)

AXO Alum told a story on my thread in which a girl with some major problems affiliated with a group at her own campus and really hurt them with her weird and crazy behavior. So I can see why the rule is there for taking a vote; I just sometimes wish it didn't have to be that way, because some people have legitimate reasons to transfer.

I'm confused; I thought that affiliate members weren't counted in chapter total. :confused:

WOW!!! I have seen this happen many times and have even posted about it under my pre-new-GC board name (when I lost my password)!!!

I graduated from a midsize school in the south. Girls would pledge a sorority and then transfer to Ole Miss. Another example: XYZ was rather selective at my school, but not at Miss State. PNMs would pledge at State and then transfer to USM. I have been out of school for many years, but can only imagine this still happens. I know a young lady (not so young anymore) very well, her mother sent her to USM to pledge a sorority and then transfer to 'Bama. Her family was very well-to-do in Birmingham and her mother wanted to ensure that she received a bid from a sorority that was well respected at 'Bama and was concerned about her rushing at 'Bama. I know this sounds ludicrous, but it is true. I am sure it is not the norm, but it does happen.

I know our chapter votes on a member affiliating, after they have been with us for one semester.

I went to a mid-sized school in NC with a pretty comptetive greek system...especially the sororities. Of a school that was a total of 5,000 students, 65% of all women were greek.
There were a few instances that I can think of when girls would become a member of a prestigous southern sorority at my school and then transfer to Bama, UNC, Duke, FSU, ect.
On the other hand though, my chapter had a member come from a school in West Virginia, and we made it a point to get to know her and get her involved. She ended up being a huge asset to our chapter. But we also had a member come from a northern school and she wanted nothing to do with us, so we just left her alone.

It was THE way to go in the 70's. There were always girls who did this. They were usually from other states. The cases I remember most transfered to LSU or UT. XO probably had this happen to them more than anyone. I myself transfered to UT for a semester and affiliated with my soro, but missed my old friends so much I returned. I was too dumb to know what soro was considered this or that and had no motive for the transfer except wanting a change of scene. The year I transfered my soro had 6 or 7 affiliates and we did NOT receive a real warm welcome until we proved ourselves. Hate to say it, but I didn't care too much...they were really snobby.

It definitely happens...
 

KillarneyRose,

Yes, girls definitely do this. I know several from my college who only went to my school because it was easier to get into a sorority there (not as many girls went through Rush compared to the numbers going through at larger schools). They got into the sorority they wanted, and then transferred after initiation to UGA. To me, that's a little over the top, and I wouldn't have ever even thought of doing it, but for some girls being in a specific house was their top priority at college and they would do whatever it took to get there. Hope this answers your question! :)

DZ Love,
Carrie

I only heard of this with schools- go three years at some easy college and then transfer to a big name one to get the degree (and status).

I love the greek system but it is getting sad when kids are choosing their college based on if they can get into their choice of a sorority rather than on that college and what the school has to offer.

I think the transferring is not only about the sorority. Some go to a more local school for a year because of boyfriends (bad reason), finances, mom and dad, fear of a large school, etc.; and then transfer the following year to a bigger state school for a variety of reasons. For example, they may go to some of the night football games and see the greek parties and total atmosphere, etc. and want to experience all of it. To say, its to join this or that sorority is probably an oversimplification.

Also, to their credit, many do transfer because of the breadth and depth of the degree programs offered at the state schools.

While the SEC schools do have a great Greek system, I doubt whether many (although a very few might) would go to a smaller school with the sole purpose of using it to get into a particular sorority at a larger school.

This year, my neice told me about a really cute girl going through rush. She was a multiple legacy, but didn't have the grades for LSU.(!?!) She was rushing with a friend who spilled the beans that they intended to transfer next year. Sad thing was, her grades were too low for her choice sorority and the others that heard about the transfer dropped her as well.

LOL. Did this girl even have a pulse?

I've heard of that too. In my hometown Penn State is practically a religion for some people, but not everyone has a) the grades to get in their freshman year or b) the money to go to Penn State all 4 years. So they go to a state system school (what used to be known as teachers colleges, now universities, and much cheaper than PSU) for 2 years and then transfer to Penn State so they can get the Nittany Lion on their license plate.

Voting on transfers
 

I do know that most of the NPC groups have done away with voting on accepting transfers as these women have already been voted on for membership, and shouldn't be voted on twice .... but the transferring women do have the choice to affliate or stay alumna - ONLY if she has completed all financial responsbilities to her home chapter.

But yes, you hear stories every year about transfers ... too bad they didn't put their academic major in front of majoring in sorority :(

I don't think the two girls I wrote about transferred schools for the purpose of getting in the "right" sorority, I think they chose their sororities based on the fact that they were going to transfer. For example, "Carrie" attended her first two years at the small private college where her father worked. Professor's children had a huge discount. But, it did not have her major, so she knew she would need to transfer. When it was time to Rush, she looked at the sororities at the school to which she was transferring. She decided that XY had the status, sisterhood, etc.. that she wanted. At her own school, they were small, weak, and definitely not elite (had the "anyone with a pulse reputation"). She went all the way through and accepted a bid from them. And, she ended up loving them, and having a great time. The house began to grow and become more involved on campus. When she transferred, XY at her new school decided she did not "fit in", and she was not allowed to affiliate.

I'm glad to hear that most sororities have done away with the voting in of transferring members. This can be devastating to someone who ended up having no choice but to transfer schools. They come to a new place, under not-so-great circumstances, having left all of their friends behind. They will definitely need their sisters.

Y'know, I haven't heard a thing about sororities doing away with voting in affiliates. If anything, I've heard that more are doing it.

One problem you see in the South is that girls in a larger chapter of a selective sorority will actually encourage their buddies to rush a less selective chapter and transfer--this is done when the girls don't think their buddies will make it on the larger campus. AGDAlum once told me that a chapter at the University of Texas was once known as the "Friendly Four Hundred" due to this.

I hate to see a girl unable to affiliate! I just don't know what the solution is when people are purposely going around the system--which, by the way, hurts the smaller chapters as they lose members who never intended to stay to their bigger chapters.

I always wondered about this myself.....but it isn't only a problem in the deep south!!!!! For a pretty large school, Kent State has a fairly small greek system. When I was there ('90-'94) we only comprised 4% of the school population....and the greek system was MUCH larger then than it is now. In my time, there were 7 sororities total, but only 3 of them were considered "prestigious." A couple of times we were faced with the possibility of girls from other schools coming to KSU and trying to affiliate. We actually had one come from Akron U which had an unusually weak XO chapter. She really surprised us....she was a girl who would have rushed very successfully at Kent...and she did affiliate. In XO we had a sort of pledge period, where the girl who is looking to affiliate gets to know the chapter, and learns our chapter's history, etc. Then we vote on whether to affiliate her or not. (If she is voted out, she goes alum.)

Someone asked about counting affiliates in campus total. On most campuses unaffiliated women don't count in campus total - meaning that you don't count them in your membership until you affiliate them.

I was curious if this is still an issue with SEC/major southern schools.

I'd venture that Clemson is fairly major as far as non-SEC southern schools go, and every time a girl has come to my chapter as a transfer we've welcomed her with open arms. We do vote but it's entirely a formality. We had a sister transfer in from a different school in-state, affiliate with our chapter for a couple weeks, and then withdraw from school because a very prestigious school across the country offered her a scholarship starting the next semester. She still got to be our sister for a couple weeks.

I think that having a sister to vouch that she was transferring for "the right reasons", so to speak, is useful for chapters where this might happen.

When I was in school in the 90s I had heard the rumor of girls joining XYZ at State U and transferring to Mega Large State U due to rush being terrifying at MLSU and affiliating. That's probably simplifying it though. I was the Rho Chi for one girl who rushed & joined at my school and transferred to UGA and affiliated, but I don't think it had anything to do with sororities, but she decided she didn't like going to school in downtown Atlanta (she was from a small Georgia town) and liked Athens better. Also, I've known people who thought they wanted a smaller college and realized they would rather have a larger campus experience and transfer. Or sometimes, the person didn't have the grades to get in one school, got their grades up and transferred but joined a sorority that also had a chapter where they eventually wanted to go. There are lots of reasons.

My chapter had sisters from other chapters affiliate with us almost every year. They all said they transferred for a field of study their former institution did not offer. We were absolutely crushed when we were made aware of a sister who had chosen to not submit her name for an affiliation vote. We always treated her well if we did see her as she was still a sister to us. I was told these sisters counted for total but did not affect quota.

Some people were saying earlier in this thread that it was horrible to not automatically accept a sister or brother... I think it's more horrible to not consider the feelings of a whole chapter of your sisters or brothers who were used, if that is the case. As clemson girl said, there are good reasons for transferring and bad ones.

This has been going on for a long time, and not just in the South. I rushed in the 1990s and when I was home after my Freshman year, I was at the gym, wearing a shirt from some sorority event. A guy I went to high school with came up to me and asked if I joined my sorority at my school so I could transfer to his school (another Big Ten school) and be in the "best" sorority. I laughed, as I had never heard of such a thing (and my school was wayyyy better!! ;)) but after talking to people, apparently a lot of people did that, and from what I've heard, it still happens at that school and another Big Ten school with a very competitive Greek system.

At my Big Ten school it was hit or miss with affiliation. Some chapters would accept re-affiliates and some would not. Three of the so-called "top" chapters when I was in school had the "bottom" chapter at a nearby school. Girls did transfer for legitimate reasons such as going from a private school in Indy to our public university and those top chapters did NOT allow the girls to re-affiliate. Or the commuter school to the south that was a satellite campus of the main campus which was cheaper and girls would could complete a year there before coming to the big campus. Those chapters put them on "associate" membership and the girls could come to dances and a couple of parties a month, but they could not move in, recruit or attend chapter. I thought it was just plain rude....not exactly the definition of sisterhood.

The first school I was referring to is a little west of yours. :D

My chapter had a couple of girls transfer in each year. Our chapter tried to keep a very open mind and get to know the girls.
The only 2 bad experiences I remember were with two girls that transferred in from private colleges and just felt they were so above our public university. But luckily, they both decided to go alum pretty quickly.
I have definitely heard of this being a strategy that was discussed with girls who want to go to UT and SMU. Spend a year at a different state uni to make sure you can into the "right" house, etc.

Wow. If they were so above a state uni, why did they transfer to one? Not so high and mighty now. lol When I was active, we only had a couple of sisters transfer in and no probs at all--one I was never close to and the other was such a sweetheart. You'd have to have done something truly appalling for us not to accept you or have horns coming out of your head. :D

Wow. I think Chapter is one of the most important aspects of sisterhood. To not be allowed to attend would be a slap in the face.

Oh, it happens. It was a favorite approach of Texas people who knew their daughter would not get into certain GLO's at Texas schools even if they were double or triple legacies, so they literally sent their daughter to an out of state school where perhaps that chapter was not as overwhelmed with legacies or where the chapter was not as strong as it was at say UT or SMU, and the daughter gets pledged, initiated into Mother and Grandmother's sorority, stays a year and transfers back home. Averts social disaster back in the hometown, but sometimes the daughter was more comfortable at her first school and chapter and decided to stay there.

I personally saw this happen more than once.