justamom--how's lsu??
 

Justamom--

Now that they've had some time to reflect, do you have any clue how the pledged and unpledged girls from LSU view the Greek system, rush, etc., there?

Boy, there's a lot to say on this. I'll break it down.
The girls who dropped- Two of the girls have all but disappeared. For the others, there is regret. They see how active Greek life is at LSU and how many activities there are and have resentment to those who completed the process. On one hand, they say things that have already been posted referring to stereotypes. However, they go to Greek Night at the local club and then criticize those who have expanded their circle of friends.

The girls who were cut-Only one has gone out and expanded beyond her original friends and touches base with everyone. The others, all of the above, but add varying degrees of bitterness.
A few in particular have taken up a crusade against any association that "allows/promotes" drinking, even if those indulging are of legal age. It has become a moral issue. They reamed my daughter at lunch one day and she said, "When you see your sister in a situation where she might make a fool out of herself, you don't leave her or preach to her, you take her to the bathroom and hold her hair back...that's what sisters do." Of course that's just one line she said that stuck in my mind. My daughter never was a drinker, perhaps she has changed, but I doubt to a degree that would cause me too much concern for now.( As a side note, two of these girls have joined a religious based group)

The girls who pledged-They are all very happy. (2 still wish they were in a different soro but are glad that at least they ARE in one)
If I may add, the beauty of DG to her is the fact that her choices of friends aren't limited to just DG. Her circle includes DG of course, KKG, KAT, ZTA, Pi Phi and KD. She has distanced herself from the ones who "told her off". Some of the others from her HS don't interact beyond their own sorority. In their defense, the activities may be overwhelming and therefore limit their time.

All in all, those who expected, OR WERE TOLD they should be
XYZ took it the hardest and carry the most resentment.

Oooh. I kind of expected that. So many alums cheerfully tell PNMs that they're born XYZs, that there shouldn't be any problems in making it, etc. I've been around too long to think that anything in this world is a done deal until it happens.

And yet I don't know how to get the word out about this to alums. Most don't belong to alum clubs or Panhels so that the only way to get the word out that girls should keep their options open is to tell the rushees themselves before rush and hope they haven't been so heavily indoctrinated that they'll listen.

I was afraid this would happen when you said there were a lot of big-city, legacy PNMs...I hope they find a constructive way to ease their hurt until maybe they can have another shot at rush if they so desire.

Coming from the perspective of having been cut and/or dropped, I can see right through these girls resentment and bitterness. Its jealousy. Greek life at LSU is such that it makes the social scene like one big high school again. And the Greeks are the "haves" and the non-greeks are the "have nots" And unfortunately, a lot of the stereotypes are very true here. '

Granted, I have greek friends that are wonderful girls, I work with a DG and she's awesome (she even lives in the new subdivision I just moved to :) ) but a lot of them...well, lets just leave it at they're questionable.

I just hope your daughter doesn't distance herself too much from the girls that dropped. It will only reinforce their resentment and bitterness to have the "cool girls" i.e., the sorority women reject them.

Overall, how is your daughter feeling with the Greek system?

She's doing great. Just as another example, she went with the independent girls to Greek Night and THEY LEFT HER! Out of the blue, no word, nothing. That was the last straw. They have ridiculed her at lunch, walking on campus and in front of some guys they all met. She has met lots of new people through her classes and some other activities that are independent. They don't seem to have a problem. She hasn't changed, but the way her friends treat her has. Isn't it all too sad...

bravo for your daughter
 

judging from her reaction to all this, you have raised her well. she'll be successful in whatever she tries.
cheers
mmcat
:p

OKay, I am a little confused. Is your daughter being reamed out and left by her new DG sisters?? Or are these her friends from HS that didn't get bids. I hope its not her sisters, because that doesn't sound very sisterly to me.

No, not her sisters, her friends from HS. It isn't solely directed at her either. Two of the other girls who pledged are getting the same treatment. I'm hoping that it will settle down once the other girls get involved and spread their wings as well. The key is involvement.

mmcat-Oh, how nice of you to say that. I hope you're right.

Whew--I feel so much better! I am sorry your daughter is having problems with friends, but I agree with MMCat--she sounds like she has a good head on her shoulders and can get through this rough time. Thanks for always letting us hear whats going on--you make me miss my mom!!
Lesley

What a sweet thing to say. I miss having my girl around and GC helps. It's nice to hear what is going on with everyone and watching all these young lives unfold...like a story waiting to be told. oops a rhyme!

Hey justamom,
The same thing that happened with your daughter happened to me. I was a soph. when I rushed but I was still friends with many of the girls I went to hs with. when I rushed some were very rude about it and unsupportive. But all of my new friends from college even the indept. were so supportive. I guess it can help you learn who your real friends are. Tell her good luck and her new friends are the ones that will to continue to be there for her!:D

I think the reason I am enjoying the boards so much also is for the same reason. I am older and have a daugher in a sorority. It is really fun to hear the rush stories, and to see while some things have changed, many have remained the same. Particularly the excitement. I guess I am saying I am glad the system is still growing strong. I still get together yearly with 5 other DG sisters, and we sure do have a great time.

DGmom-I thought I mentioned this somewhere, but one of my roommates was a DG. That girl could PARTY! Everyone would go to "Cougar Corner" and she would roll in like 3-4 am, scribble down a lesson plan and go to class. She was my favorite "wild child". Now, she's a PRINCIPAL in Tx!!! Nobody can put ANYTHING over on her!

h2oot
 

EVERYTHING you posted is what she has conveyed to me, everything!

How many GLOs are at LSU? Why don't more colonize? Just curious because I see a need for more opportunities to join.

It's not as easy as it sounds. LSU has been home to 21of the 26 current NPC groups. Today there are only 10 - Chi Omega, Delta Delta Delta, Delta Gamma, Delta Zeta, Kappa Alpha Theta, Kappa Delta, Kappa Kappa Gamma, Phi Mu, Pi Beta Phi and Zeta Tau Alpha.

When an NPC group looks at a campus, many factors are taken into consideration. One of them is the school's success rate. LSU's is not very good. Panhellenic lost 6 groups in the 80's alone including one of the oldest Alpha Delta Pi chapters. Of the 4 groups that chartered after 1964, none remain on campus today. Another factor is the group's history on campus. Many groups that closed there have bitter memories and will not return. However, the MAJOR FACTOR is housing. A new group would have to build a house that is at least equal to what is already there. Land is a premium and it will be very difficult to find a suitable lot.

If you factor in the general costs of colonization plus a new house, we are talking well over $1 million. IMHO, it would be risky but doable. Many groups are leary about shelling out that kind of money unless the return on investment can be guaranteed. We all know that there really aren't any guarantees. I know that my group isn't going to try any time soon.

AOPiRose--
I'm glad you brought that up. I've heard from pretty reliable sources that our (ADPi) chapter at LSU closed in the 80's because some of the other sororities were trying to get rid of the "alpha" chapters (ADPi, AXO, APhi, etc.). There are no "alpha chapters left today. Is there any truth to this that you know of?

Justamom--
My "aunt-in-law" was a DG at LSU in the 50's or 60's and had a great experience!

That's an interesting point aopirose. My school USC-- lost 5 houses between 1987 and 1996 - AGD, AOII, Sigma Kappa, AEPhi and Chi O. Nine remain - ADPi, APhi, DDD, DG, KAT, KKG, PiPhi, Gamma Phi, Alpha Chi. I heard DG had a pledge class this year of 64. And house total is at 206. which made me wonder why a new group doesnt come on, or one of the old groups come back-- when I was there, pledge class quota was 50 and houses topped out at 120.

But looking at the history of the campus-- since the 50's when we had about 21 of the NPC groups there-- Phi Sig Sig(i think), Zeta, KD, Phi Mu, DZ and the 5 I mentioned before who were all (except for SK, they came to SC in 88) on campus prior to 1947-- and more have all closed.

Of the remaining houses, KKG is the newest at 1947 charter.

Anyway, that's my little USC history lesson/rant.

I

AOPiRose--
I'm glad you brought that up. I've heard from pretty reliable sources that our (ADPi) chapter at LSU closed in the 80's because some of the other sororities were trying to get rid of the "alpha" chapters (ADPi, AXO, APhi, etc.). There are no "alpha chapters left today. Is there any truth to this that you know of?

Justamom--
My "aunt-in-law" was a DG at LSU in the 50's or 60's and had a great experience!


AOPiRose-What an interesting observation. What would being an "Alpha" chapter have to do with anything? I don't know much from a historical perspective. I thought I read somewhere that AXO closed around '71 or '72.

I agree with the housing situation. Sorority Row is beautiful and to bring another group to campus would cost a pretty penny. Panhellenic does seem to think they have seen a turn around in interest. Last year they thought rush was huge, this year they said it was the largest in their history. They believe it will be even more difficult to match the majority of the girls next year.

I haven't met too many DG's around here, only the lovely alums who wrote her rec. Everyone says they are or at least were comprised of mainly NO/private school girls. There are tons of NO girls in her pledge class.

You are referring to the "Alpha Syndrome". It was a big coincidence that most of the Alpha chapters closed at about the same time but it still has lasting affects. Alpha Chi Omega (1926-1972) was the first Alpha to close. Our Administrative Assistant was in the chapter when it closed. The other Alphas closed in the 1980's - Alpha Omicron Pi and Alpha Phi - 1980, Alpha Epsilon Phi - 1984, Alpha Delta Pi and Alpha Gamma Delta - 1985, and the last Alpha to close was Alpha Xi Delta in 1988.

I cannot say that the other sororities were purposely getting rid of the Alphas. I believe it was dirty rushing tactics that became a self-fulfilling prophecy. "Don't pledge an Alpha they are all closing!" Fewer pledges lead to smaller chapters who had to raise dues to maintain the house. They soon priced themselves out of the market. Many voluntarily surrendered their charters.

However, the whole issue is more complex. The anti-establishment movement of the 60's & 70's and the oil bust of the 80's played a part in the decline of the system. This was all compounded by the fact that Panhellenic didn't necessarily follow the Green Book. There was a man in charge of Greek Affairs and he had his hands full with the fraternities. The sororities were left to their own devices. In the late 80's, this wonderful woman was put in charge and things started to turn around Panhellenically. However, the oil bust had a dramatic effect on the local economy and the school. Quota went from 72 to 45 in less then 2 years. The numbers are picking up again thankfully but unless the university steps up to the plate, it would be hard to add another chapter.

The other sororities that closed at LSU are Phi Sigma Sigma - 1932, Sigma Deta Tau - 1969, Gamma Phi Beta - 1977 and Sigma Kappa - 1993.

OK, kiddies, enough rambling from a person with too much brain sludge.

LOL, the Alpha Syndrome...sounds like a conspiracy! :) AOPiRose, you know WAY too much stuff :)

Justamom, I love reading your posts.....your relationship with your daughter sounds a lot like the one I shared with my wonderful, beautiful mom......I lost her in February 2000 and I still miss her and think of her constantly. On the upside, I have a wonderful, beautiful little girl who I aspire to share a similar relationship with. I was joking with my sisters on our Hooties site that I will never be able to be as professional and unbiased as you have been....I will be a psycho when Paige rushes!!!!! Of course, I already think she is the most fabulous thing in the world and that any chapter would drool over her, but then I'M her mom!!!!!

H2oot, what chapter are you in? Are you an undergrad there at LSU now?

Oh ErikaXO that was such a sweet thing to say about your mom and I am so sorry for your loss. I am very close to my mom and would die if I lost her. OK I am about to cry.

K

ErikaXO-Thanks for the kind words. I was angry as heck at some of the things that happened (just ask Carnation), but my daughter is the one who put it into the proper perspective.

I am so sorry about your loss. No one will ever love you like your parents... My entire family(on my Mother's side) is very close.
I have no doubt that you too will have the same relationship with your darling daughter. You learned from a pro-your own Mom.

a happy ending, though
 

just a mom, at least your story appears to be ending well, yes?
the rest of this information is fascinating...
and alpha conspiracy? my my
mmcat
:eek:

What an incredible tuition program!!!! There sure isn't anything like that in Ohio, but then Ohio is one of the wealthier states (which is funny because there are some pretty big poor areas!!!) How do the universities afford it? Does Tops actually pay for each student? It's too bad that more big-time corporate sponsors won't step up to the plate and do this kind of thing. If they could find one major corporate sponsor for students for every state, think of the difference it would make. Or even if they did something at the public school level....right now there is over a billion dollars in repairs/etc. needing to be done to the Cleveland Public Schools....if they don't pass their levy, some of these schools will have to close due to code violations and such. What are they going to do?

h2oot, I was wondering if you heard this. In the context of the girls being nervous, my daughter said her Rho Chi told her...

This past rush, at the first meeting, their Rho Chi told them that even if they only got one invitation to Pref, they would be extended a bid. However, next year, because of the expected increase in the number of PNMs, there would be NO GUARANTEE even if they were invited to 3 Pref parties.

I read all the threads refering to bid matching and this just doesn't seem POSSIBLE! My little darling has been known to get things wrong and then later say I didn't hear her correctly. I've asked her about this a couple of times and she has said that although it would be LIKELY, there still would be no guarantee.
For those that don't know, a girl can attend 3 pref parties.

If there was a guarantee this year, that could help explain why so many houses made quota plus. I just don't want to be "down" over a situation that could be so painful for next year's rushees if it isn't true.

mmcat-Still great, they think she should gun for president of the chapter. I think she should gun for "A's"...

hey justamom!
 

justamom,

OK completely off topic here!

aggieAXO and I are in the AXO website chat room! Pls join us if you see this in time!

Caroline

There is no guarantee that a girl will receive a bid, even if she does go to three parties. She is guaranteed to be on each chapter's bid list, but this is different. The bid list is every girl who comes to pref, in order of how much the chapter wants her. If I went to three parties, I would be on three lists, but if I am at the very bottom of each one, I may not be extended a bid on bid day.

According to the Greenbook, quota additions can not exceed 5% of quota (rounded up). If quota is 60, each chapter can take 63 at the very most. So here is what could happen:

Rushees A, B, C, and D all pref at only XYZ. This is the only house to which they have been invited, and they all sign pref cards for XYZ.

None of them are in XYZ's top 60, and every girl in the top 60 lists XYZ first on their pref card. Therefore, none of these women are extended a bid from XYZ during computer matching.

These women would then be hand-matched to the sorority if eligible. The sorority can only take three women, though, and there are four of them. The rushees that appear highest on XYZ's bid list will be matched to XYZ, and the fourth one is out of luck.

So there are no guarantees. Hopefully, with more girls rushing, quota would be raised.

That is so scary...
 

The possible policy of Rush next year is scary, at best...even if it's not true, it's still true in some extent--that due to expected enrollment increases, more women will rush, putting even more of a strain on the system as we know it...I wish another sorority could come onto campus there, but I imagine it'd be a tough process.

I think this is happening everywhere--Florida's had its Academic Scholars program, and Georgia's got the HOPE scholarship, which is fairly new. This not only has an impact on the number of rushees--put puts strains on everything, from parking to housing. I honestly don't know what can be done...:confused:

wow
 

that recruitment scenario sounds scary.
when dealing with large numbers of people, you can never guarantee anything. i see some broken hearts on the horizon.
justamom, sounds like it's all good with your sweetie. she should grab everything out there -- all a's and some good leadership and some good fun.
cheers
mmcat
:p :D :cool:

Georgia's HOPE scholarship has definitely had an effect on rushee numbers. It's hard to even get into UGA now because the people with high grades and SATs who used to go to private out-of-state colleges like Duke and Vandy are opting to stay in Georgia.

This means that if you do get into UGa and you think you have a super shot at rush because you have a 4.0 and a 1300 on your SATs, big deal! So do at least half of the other twenty billion rushees--and they've all got great high school activities too! I saw the scholarship rankings at UGa recently--seems like most of the sororities were in the 3.3-3.4 range.

You'd think that all the sororities there would be full but as usually happens, they aren't because so many rushees get their hearts set on certain groups and would rather be independent than not join one of their preferred groups.

You would think that the weaker groups on these campuses would work on revitalization in order to improve their competitive advantage.

It is not very realistic for NPC orgs not on that that campus to expand on, mostly because of the housing commitment. And having an unhoused chapter there would be suicide.

LSU's land situation
 

Is it that the land is just not available (i.e., everything that is appropriately zoned is in use and they won't change the zoning to open anything else up) or that there is zoned land and it's just far away from the other houses?

If it is the latter, and 2 houses came in at once, it would eliminate the "one house out in the middle of nowhere" factor somewhat.

(rant) May I just say how much I think it SUCKS that hundreds of women get left out of Greek life every year just because of housing issues. Yes it's nice to live with your sisters, but I would rather have sisterhood with no house than no sisterhood at all.

h200t seems to have the most current information. The houses are beautiful and to build a comprable one today would break the bank. Nov. 10th is PARENTS DAY!!!! We get to go and meet everyone. I am so excited I could SPIT! (Old Kansas saying)

From what I understand, you have to have all houses within a membership range. Until then, they won't even consider adding a new soro. This year, one of the soros that has had a trying time making quota, made quota PLUS! Also, they are said to have a great pledge class, not just by other girls, but by the new freshmen guys. If rush is as large next year, I can see images changing. IT ONLY TAKES ONE PLEDGE CLASS to turn things around. I really believe this.

This other soro still has trouble getting mixers, but has been told once the older guys are gone and they get a new chair in, they can look forward to more exchanges. I sure hope all works out for them.

have fun
 

have a ball on nov. 10...and be sure and keep us posted on how great things are going for your daughter.
mmcat
:p :D :cool:

33, I'm with you on the "no house = sorority will die" idea. I just can't fathom it. When I went through rush at my school, only 1 sorority (out of 5) had a house and they had just gotten it. 2 more sororities have since gotten houses, 1 is looking, and the other one (mine) isn't. (Of course, I went to school in the Northeast, which is a different animal...)

I wonder if it would be possible to set aside a floor or two of a dorm for a new sorority to occupy for a year or two? PNM's would simply be told that the sorority had just recently colonized and would probably have a house by the time they're juniors. (And if the colony hadn't been chartered yet, they could also be sold on how interesting it is to be a chapter founder :) )

The new sorority might not be able to get their numbers quite so high without a house, but if they got houses within a couple of years, in the long run that wouldn't hurt them.

off topic
 

This is totally off topic but thought I'd post anyways.

Aephi--
There have been alot of topics about the southern greek system and rushing in the south. What is the northern/east coast greek system like? Is the west coast greek system very different from both the northern and southern greek systems?

Just curious :-)

To be honest, from my Northern rush experiences is really wasn't THAT different. But Kent typically draws students from all of Ohio, Pennsylvania, New York, Michigan, and other surrounding areas. It isn't like Justamom described where you have big groups of girls from the same HS rushing together. Iwent to a HS in the next town from my college and there were only a handful of local girls rushing. You also don't have the big legacy thing here so much. We had legacies but there were few enough of them that they usually got into houses (not necessarily what they were a leg to) with no prob.

One big difference is that the greek life just doesn't have the same universal appeal in the North. People tend to be a lot more independent. The whole "tradition" thing isn't such a big deal except for the pockets of blue-blood areas around here. Kent's rush numbers are pathetic for a big school. Even when I went through there were 500+ girls going for spots in 6 houses and the big chapters were at 120 or so....with that it was only a 4% greek pop.

I would like to hear about Ivy League or New England schools rush....I bet greek life there is something!