Total Too Low???
 

This whole situation seems ridiculous to me. But I’ll let all of you decide. :)

The chapter I advise is on a campus with two other NPC sororities. There has always been a debate as to what to do about total, and it has been brought up at least once each year in Panhellenic. Even with many discussions lasting far longer than they should, total has stayed at 40 for at least the past 7 years.

Just yesterday at a business meeting, I handed out a recruitment survey to all of the sisters to fill out, and in one of the questions I had said, “Total stands at 40…” and someone said, “Just so you know, total was just changed.” I found out that it went from 40 to 30. Even in the past when it had been discussed, it was never brought up that it should be this drastic of a change. From 40 to 35, maybe. But 40 to 30 seems extreme (I don’t know if it would seem that way on other campuses, but this is a huge jump for us because we’re so small already).

As I said, there are 3 NPC sororities on campus. In the time since I’ve been a sister (and knowing a little about the few years before I joined), I have seen/heard one of those chapters reach total a few times, one of those chapters has come extremely close once or twice, and one chapter has never had more than 20. We only have informal recruitment, so gaining interest for each individual chapter can be challenging.

This past semester, there was a huge interest in Greek life, especially among freshmen women, and with deferred recruitment, everyone is looking forward to a successful spring recruitment.

Which is why I’m confused. Right now, one chapter has 16 members, one has 24, and another has 28. It makes no sense to me why they would lower total by this much.

I know that one chapter always wants to have their numbers close to total, simply because they are required to pay dues according to what total stands at (Ex: Total is at 40, dues are $10 per member, they pay $400 no matter how many members they have). This is one of the main reasons why total has been brought up year after year.

But I also have to wonder if this decision has been partially influenced by the Greek Advisor. Although she’ll never admit it, she clearly wants to move closer to a more structured form of recruitment. I completely agree that it would be beneficial to SLOWLY move in that direction. But she seems to want to do it all at once. Also, she’s been heard talking about bringing another sorority to campus. I would think it was a rumor, but they are currently attempting to bring another fraternity to campus, also, and that might happen within the next year or so. I would think that if it was attempted to bring another sorority to campus, the whole project might fail, as we’re still attempting to gain a general interest in Greek life on campus.

IMO, I think the Greek Advisor wants to bring the sororities to total in order to “prove” that we either a) need formal recruitment, or b) need another sorority.

What do all of you think? Opinions? Even if you were to exclude the aspect of the Greek Advisor’s standpoint, do you think that it was wise for them to lower total with two chapters who are now very close to that ceiling, and with a quickly approaching spring recruitment period that will most likely be very successful?

The NPC Area Advisor is supposed to be included in the discussion about what Total should be, how to figure it, etc. There are a few different ways that NPC recommends you use from adding up quota from the last 4 years, figuring average chapter size, going with largest chapter size, etc. I would contact the NPC Area Advisor on this one.

If you go to a more structured recruitment, total won't cause any problems for the two larger chapters (because you bid to quota, not total, and you can go over total as long as you don't go over quota).

IMO, it might help to have a more structured recruitment (formal recruitment with three chapters isn't really an option, but partially structured could work well) by means of drumming up more interest and working TOGETHER, instead of separately doing COR, which, from what I know of your campus, groups are more interested in doing what THEY do rather than helping everyone else out with recruitment.

Oh, and your Greek Advisor does not want to bring another group to campus. That's just a rumor. Even if she did want to, she can't force Panhellenic Council to open for expansion. But that doesn't matter, because what you're hearing is just a rumor.

ETA: When I was an active, there was a chapter that doubled their size by meeting quota through formal recruitment then continuing to bid through COR. I don't know if they would have been able to do that if there hadn't been something to get them started (formal recruitment).

So total was recently lowered from 40 to 30 and none of the three chapters is currently at total (16, 24 & 28)? Maybe I'm a bit slow on Monday morning but what is the problem you see with this lower total if the current chapters aren't yet at total of 30? I agree that a 25% decrease seems a bit large but totally in line with how the chapters are actually performing.

The problem is, we're not doing structured recruitment right now. So isn't this hurting the two chapters who are close to total, especially the one that currently has 28 members?

I just don't know why it was changed. Right now, it seems to not make any sense.

If anything, I would say a lower total will benefit the smaller chapter by allowing them to offer more bids in order to get to total.

When total was 40, did any of the chapters even come close to total and when (how long ago)?

Well, say you go to a partially structured recruitment now, including quota. Knowing the greek advisor and her background, plus knowing a little about your campus, it's my feeling that this is where you're heading. You won't go all the way to formal recruitment because it might be too big of a production for three chapters to pull off (there was talk of doing away with it for our five chapters because it was too big a production when I was a senior - I'm not sure if they went to partially structured or not).

Partially structured recruitment isn't that different from COR, but it could include anything from having Rho Gammas, events where all the sororities are together, quota, etc. It's my understanding that partially structured recruitment takes the best of formal, the best of COR, and meshes them together. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the idea they were batting around for my campus).

So everyone works together to drum up interest, there's a higher number of potential new members, and you can have a quota. Thereby avoiding the problems that are brought about where chapters are working AGAINST each other, or not even against each other but with COR they're not pooling their resources. COR can be very successful, but IMO smaller chapters tend to struggle with it.

So you would have parties, sign ups, prefs, etc. You already probably have all the pieces to a partially structured recruitment and just don't know it.

Here's my advice - IMO the total thing is not going to cause an issue. It's very likely that your greek advisor, if it was her that pushed for the change, was thinking that if you all could get to total, the strength of the greek system as a whole would increase, and you'd have a lot more options as far as raising total again, or, if it was something everyone wanted to do, opening for expansion (another chapter really can help out at times). I don't think she wants to invite other organizations to colonize - she can't anyway because A. even with lowering total no one is at it right now, and B. she can't force PC to open for expansion. I think she wants the greek system to have more options (raising total, increasing strength overall of all the chapters), and keeping options open for the future.

Lowering total eases the burdens of the chapters that have the dues system you mentioned in your first post and also increases the smallest chapter's chances of reaching that total in the near future, making it an attainable goal. If the other chapter advisors aren't raising a stink about lowering total, then it shouldn't be a problem. If they are, maybe you guys could get together, WITH the greek advisor and the NPC advisor, and go over options for partially structured recruitment, have them explain what they have in mind for you, and talk about where your campus greek system is headed in the future, so you can all be on the same page and help the chapters put their best foot forward for spring recruitment.

One chapter met it at least 3 or 4 times since I've been around (5 years). Another chapter has come basically just under it a couple times (35-38 members). The last time a chapter reached total was spring 2007.

The thing is, for a chapter to have 2 new members in the spring semester is VERY rare because of deferred recruitment. For them to change it to 30 now seems strange with one of the chapters at 28 members, especially because of the unusually large interest from freshmen this year. It would make sense if after this spring recruitment they decided to change it because all of the chapters were truly struggling. But why would they change it now?

Another reason that I don't understand is because every year, by the time spring semester comes around, 1 or 2 of the chapters would always be above 30 members (and usually above 35). So why lower it to 30?

This is another reason why I think you're headed toward partially structured, which could be a very good thing for your greek system as a whole.

Oh, I definitely agree that it would help. But I feel like we're skipping steps here. Shouldn't they make attempts to work together and promote Greek life as a whole, and in turn, gain a more general interest before they worry about turning over to a more structured recruitment? I understand they may go hand in hand, but I think that things like Panhellenic informational sessions, 'Meet the Greeks', and joint social activities should happen before they worry about changing the entire system.

It's not really going to change the entire system though. Like I said before, you've already got many of the parts of a partially structured recruitment. So even if you completely switched over like, tomorrow, I think you'll find it's not all that different, but the biggest difference would be that the sororities would be working together on the important things (drumming up interest, for one) and there would be a bigger greek presence on campus (because when you work together, you end up getting way more done than 3x what the chapter that does the most gets), and the pieces of partially structured would fall into place. A more drastic change would be going from formal to partially structured, or formal to COR.

In short, I think you've already done the baby steps (you just might not realize what they were).

But again, I think that if they were switching to partially structured, then lowering total might make sense. But right now, I just don't see it. With a ceiling of 30, you're now restricting the chapters that do succeed. And with the way things are going, the chapter that generally falls behind is slowly catching up because of the large freshmen interest this year. Lowering it to 35 might have made sense, but 30 seems a little too extreme.

And right now, the only thing that remotely resembles partially structured recruitment is one event at the beginning of the spring semester where the PNMs must visit all three chapters. That's it. And that's been going on for almost 3 years now. Other than that, there's really been no attempt at working together on recruitment.

Do you know exactly what they have planned for recruitment this year? You should probably talk to your VPR or recruitment chair and see what's been going on as far as planning goes this year, or talk to the VPM of Panhellenic.

Another problem is that the chapter that generally gets the most members also loses the most at the end of each year. They have girls graduating AND transferring to Penn State's main campus, and for them to now be restricted to 30 members, they might start to struggle to keep their numbers up.

I have been talking to them, and to the members of my chapter, and nothing is changing. It's still the individual chapters working on their own. That's why I'm so confused as to why this change in total occurred when it did.

This should have been voted on in a Panehellenic meeting with advisement from the Panhellenic area advisor.

And it wasn't. This is why I'm lost. And to me, it makes no sense.

Do you think that as the Recruitment Advisor for my chapter, I should contact the Panhellenic Area Advisor myself, if only to ask questions? Or should I talk to the Greek Advisor? Or to our chapter advisor?

???

I have sent you a PM. :)

Let me get this straight. You have deferred recruitment, and with total being lowered, there is a group on campus who only has 2 spots for freshmen? That is not good for them.

Did the chapter vote to lower total and not tell you and the other advisers? Or was it changed by the GA without the vote?

The one time I contacted the NPC adviser as an adviser myself (after failing miserably with the GA who was happy to ignore the green book), it back fired. Be careful if you do that. Although if you think she is unaware of all these changes and rules are being broken, you might want to contact the higher ups in your organization to follow up I think.

I concur...emphatically. I find it hard to believe that the local CPH advisor would approve this move. There is no benefit.

This is what I mean. How is it ok to restrict a chapter to recruiting just 2 girls for next semester? Especially when I don't think they've ever had an unsuccessful spring recruitment. Chances are very good that they'll have much more than 2 girls who are interested.

And from what I understand, the chapters had a vote, although most of the girls in at least 2 of the chapters had no idea that this had changed. I've talked to a few girls in my chapter, and I've emailed a few sisters that I know in another chapter, and they didn't know that this was being decided upon.

From what I can tell from the girls that were there, it was brought up in the last Panhellenic meeting (from a suggestion by the GA), and they voted on it then without discussing it with their individual chapters.

There's obviously something else going on here. Set up a meeting with her and the NPC area rep and see if you can hammer something out.

First of all, I agree that the lowered total should have been advertised and voted on in a more open manner than it apparently was.

This being said, if your campus is moving toward a more structured recruitment, then total will mean a lot more to the chapters now than in the past. The total (30, 40 or whatever) helps to level the playing field between the three groups so that PNMs will be required to look at all of their options when it sounds like before each chapter could take as many people as they wanted no matter what their current membership numbers were. Also, with a more structured recruitment, you will likely be looking at a quota system that helps to maintain this level playing field that the campus total is being set to. Just because you had one semester or year of great growth in Greek interest does not equal a trend and this could be why your campus lowered total to 30.

In my opinion the lower total allows the one smaller chapter to attract more members to keep the numbers amongst all the chapters near the same level. PNMs who might have been closed minded and open to accept only one chapter may now have to expand their horizons a bit more and look at other options if they want to experience Greek life. The chapter that is now allowed to only accept 2 will have the option of being more selective when giving out bids.

With an enforced total number, it is more fair to all chapters because instead of each taking say 10 PNMs (a quota without total?), they are allowed to take the number that will get them to the 30 member total. Over the next few years I believe that you will find that the numbers will work themselves out where all three chapters are taking and loosing (through graduation, etc.) a similar number year after year.

And I would COMPLETELY agree with this... IF they were moving toward more structured recruitment right now. They say they will, but right now, it's not happening. PNMs are not encouraged to visit all of the chapters. They don't understand the "see everyone, find your home" concept, because they generally aren't familiar with the Greek system at all. I'll admit, when I first got involved with Greek life, I never thought that way, either. I was fortunate enough to end up where I belonged, but that doesn't happen with a lot of girls on our campus because they don't even really know that they have other options. That might sound weird, and it's hard to explain, but that's how it is. Because for 90% of the girls on this campus, they don't think "I want to be Greek!" Instead, they are generally asked to attend recruitment events by individual chapters.

I'm afraid that girls will visit only specific chapters, be left out, and not understand why. Greek life isn't a way of life around here, and the rules aren't understood by everyone.

I guess that the best way I can describe it is to relate it to fraternity recruitment.. with a total.

lowering your campus total makes sense to me. none of the chapters are at total, only one(chapter A) has hit total recently and is no longer at total. this makes me think that for your campus, right now, total is too high. it also makes no sense to bring another sorority on board, until all the chapters are at (or very near)total and stay at total for several semesters.

if your campus does not change recruitment styles next semester, and there is no set quota, then chapter A will only be able to pledge 2 girls. if they graduate 8 seniors in the spring, then they can fill those spots in the fall when everyone returns to school. if your chapters are not holding informal recruitment in the fall, there is the answer as to why no chapter is at total.

if you are only ever allowed to pledge up to total, at some point in the year all the chapters will be playing catchup. you can never go over total and creat a membership cushion(the # of members above total).

structured recruitment can work for a campus with three sororities. the chapter i advise is on a three sorority campus, with no greek housing. they hold recruitment after classes have been in session for a few weeks, in the fall, and week night parties cannot begin until 9:30, due to night classes. all three chapters pledged quota plus. incidently, we had formal recruitment when there were just two sororities and both chapters pledge quota.

it should be spelled out in the campus recruitment rules when "silence" begins and ends. that would cover when members need to stop wearing things that identify them as members of a sorority and when they can and cannot speak with pnms.

if it is not written down, i would challenge what she says. the three sororities cannot be expected to remember rules if they are not written down. if there are no written recruitment rules, i would suggest that you contact advisors from the other two chapters and together approach the greek life advisor(after you all have met and have a game plan) to work with her, under the guidance of the area panhellenic advisor, to formulate recruitment rules. with the three sororities and their advisors working together, you all can get done what needs to be done.

but aren't girls visiting specific chapters now, with the current mode of recruitment? with structured recruitment they would at least be expected to visit each chapter at least once(on my campus, they visit each chapter for two nights before any voting is done).

the panhellenic council would carry the brunt of the organizing and dispensing of information about recruitment-which it seems is being shouldered by each chapter right now.

you advisors need to meet asap, to share the info. that you know and to plan a strategy to present to the greek life advisor. you all also need to meet with the gl advisor asap so that you know what is going on and how recruitment will be held in the winter.

That's my point. If they changed total AND changed the way they recruit, it might help. But they didn't. So for next semester, they still have informal recruitment and total at 30, making it impossible for that one chapter to get any more than 2 girls.

They are visiting specific chapters (in most cases, just 1) and they aren't exposed to all of them (hence why more structured recruitment would help). If they only visit that chapter that will only allow 2 new members for next semester, then they will REALLY be limiting their options, but they might not even know that. Why would they unless the chapter told them?

I understand but you cannot have it both ways. Either your campus sticks with the way things were or moves toward a change. It could be that your campus is moving to a more formal approach quicker than you anticipate (especially since they apparently left the chapters out of the reducing quota dialogue). The chapters should agree to take the lead and inform the PNMs of the new total during their recruitment events. For example, chapter A explains that they are only allowed to accept 2 new memebers while chapter B can take 6 and chapter C can take 14. I also think that by setting the campus total and sticking to it, you will see an increase in Greek life interest because all sororities are nearly the same size and a more positive Panhellenic spirit because they need to work together in their recruitment efforts.

This is all it comes down to. I think it worries me more than anything because there haven't been any major, concrete ideas concerning this.

Easier said than done ... it might take a few semesters to get it right but you've got to start somewhere. Good luck. :)

Ha, thanks! In the meantime, I'm gonna figure out what the plans are (if any) to try and unite Greek life. Hopefully it'll work

It is very possible that your GA has plans to change your structure much closer to recruitment time. I worked with a campus that changed from quota to no quota 3 days before recruitment began. And after we had already voted. With total being lowered in such a way, I wonder about her. Is she just a GA or does she have a different position that Greek life falls under?

But when that campus changed from quota to no quota, did the chapters make that decision on their own and consult with area Panhellenic reps? Because in this case, the GA is attempting to have a very large influence over Panhellenic, and I highly doubt area Panhellenic reps were asked. And chapters weren't informed of this change. The decision was discussed and decided upon all within one meeting.

I talked to a friend of mine in another chapter tonight, and she had no idea as to what was going on until I mentioned this to her, and then she called her chapter Panhellenic liaison.

Any way you look at it, it seems as if something is wrong. To me, at least.

I say...about effing time.

Total should have probably gone from 40 to 35 to 30, but the fact of the matter is the groups haven't made total in YEARS (from what you've told us) and undoubtedly their HQs are wondering what's up. HQs only know you don't make total. They often don't know it hasn't been changed since Nixon was in office, or that the complexion of the campus changed from residential to commuter, and so on and so forth. It SUCKS to keep not making total, even if you know the total is unrealistic, and it lowers your reputation with your HQ.

The groups can all get to total now and be secure instead of feeling the constant need to compete with each other. This will ease any trash talking or backbiting going on on the campus. This will present a better picture of Greek life to non-Greeks and potential rushees and most likely make more women want to get involved.

And I'd maybe edit some of your posts about your GA. You never know who is reading this. Personally, I applaud her for taking the bull by the horns instead of letting everyone continue to flounder.

This is where the "strengthening all the chapters to get them on a level playing field" comes in.

If there are women who are hell bent on that sorority and that sorority only, they'll wait a semester and rush again in the fall. If there are women who want to be Greek NOW, maybe this will make them take a look at the other 2 sororities.

Honestly, this sounds like it's going to help your chapter the most. What the hell are you complaining about?

Although I agree that lowering the total might help even the playing field for the three chapters on your campus, making that decision in the fall seems all wrong. For chapters who do their major recruiting in the fall, this is analogous to setting total based on the number of members you have coming into fall, before you hold recruitment. If they really think total should be lowered, they should make that decision after every chapter is at their full strength. On your campus that happens after spring recruitment.

Assuming your Panhellenic Council uses parliamentary procedure, here is what you need to do. One of the voting members who voted in favor of lowering total must get recognized by the chair and say "I move we reconsider the decision to lower chapter total to 30." Like any other motion, it must have a second before it can be discussed. Once you are successful in getting it on the floor for discussion, you discuss it just like any other motion and get to vote on it again. They can make their case about delaying this decision until after spring recruitment, when you are better positioned to see how each of the chapters do.

Keep in mind that this motion-to-reconsider can only be made by someone who voted with the victorious side, i.e., to lower total. I'm not 100% sure, but I think the second has to be part of the winning side, too. Theyt shouldn't be too hard to find if the Panhallenic Council reps were rushed into a decision that they now regret. If you can't come up with two girls who have changed their mind, it's time to graciously accept this decision even if you don't understand it.

I don't claim to be a Roberts Rules expert. Please confirm what I'm recommending with a manual.

Good luck.

I said that one of them made it to total in Spring of 2007.

I completely understand that. But when each chapter already has a VERY good number of freshmen girls interested in recruitment for spring, why would they lower it now? And why aren't these things being brought back to each individual chapter? I used to be the liaison between my chapter and Panhellenic, and there would always be a few things that would need to be decided upon by a chapter and brought back to Panhellenic. This hasn't happened at all as of late.

Why don't a good portion of girls in these chapters know about these changes?

Exactly.

how many is a very good number? 10 girls-15-20-50?

^^ My chapter already has between 15 and 20 who are interested. Usually, we wouldn't see any interest from girls this early.

how many would you expect to accept a bid? i would guess 1 or 2.even if i am way off, the chapter is doing a lot of work for only 20 girls.

if the girls that all three sororities think are interested in membership were pooled together & visited all three chapters for a couple of nights your yield might be higher. i strongly recommend that you contact the advisors of the other sororities, hold a meeting with them, propose to work together, refine the recruitment process at your school, structure the recruitment and have panhellenic run the show, it can only improve the results.