Legacies?
 

When I went through rush 26 years ago, being a lecacy meant that the sorority should make every effort to at least get to know you and that you would get invited back after the first day--if nothing else, just so that you were able to meet as many people as possible. I was reading on a sorority thread that most sororities still have that policy (and most will call the relative who was a member to let them know if the legacy is cut), but I was wondering about fraternities. My son is a legacy of a fraternity because of his father, and he went through rush this week at Ole Miss. He was cut by this particular fraternity after the first night, after he was only able to talk to two members. His father is trying to find out what happened (just like I will do if my girls are rejected from my sorority--or my mother's--after only one party). My son is a very good-looking kid, who is very athletic, with better than average grades. I'm very aware of how the greek system works (I was a "mega-legacy" to a sorority, and my mother was the president of her alumni group in her major city and was at the house when I went through rush), so I'm not just a mom who sees her son as a perfect kid. He has a beautiful girlfriend who is in a very popular sorority at Mississippi State, and he is on a full ARMY scholarship at Ole Miss (and we don't even live in MS). Is it possible that they are anti-military and just didn't like his buzzed hair?

His father has always financially supported his fraternity, and I have always supported my sorority, as well. His father is ready to saw his paddle in pieces and send it to his fraternity as his last financial gift to them over this. We would NEVER expect anyone to pledge him just because he is a legacy, but shouldn't he have been able to meet more than two people in the fraternity before he was cut? What are the rules these days regarding legacies in fraternities? Or maybe it just doesn't matter anymore.

I didn't mention the particular fraternity, because I wasn't sure if it was allowed. This is the first time I have seen this site, and I just joined it to see what I could find out.

Oh, and you may have noticed that I did not join the sorority that I was a "mega-legacy" of, but that was my choice. Honestly, I liked that the other sororities liked me for ME, not because of my mother. So, again, I do feel like both sides should have their choice, but I believe that my son should have been considered beyond the first night.

Sorry I rambled...just an upset and confused Ole Miss Mom...

A lot of fraternities in the SEC only really care about legacies from their campus when it comes to giving bids, but normally you would get kept around for a while at least.

Ole Miss is not an anti-military school, and I don't think any of the top fraternities would be at all. At the same time rushing at Ole Miss from out of state (other than Texas and Alabama kids) is tough. Did his dad send a letter to the house before rush letting them know that he was a legacy and to watch out for him during rush? If not they may have just cut most of their out-of-state kids without putting it together that he was a legacy.

While I can't tell you specifically why your son was cut... some of the supposed "positives" that you mentioned are actually negatives in Ole Miss rush. Furthermore, a legacy doesn't mean jack unless the alumni is of said-chapter/gives money to the said chapter.

ROTC Scholarship - We sometimes take kids from the ROTC, but often they have their own "new brothers" and not alot of time for fraternity pledging

Out of State - Not good, whatsoever. Especially if the legacy isn't from the Ole Miss chapter. Germantown is close enough and I know there are plenty of Memphis kids at Miss, but it still doesn't help.

My fraternity has no policy on calling the fathers of legacies of any sort or doing anything. It's unfortunate but he should continue rush and look into other houses.

Thank you for the info. I guess fraternities ARE a lot different from sororities, as with sororities, it doesn't matter about being from out of state OR if the alum was from that particular school--even now, I know that much is true.

I understand what you are saying about the ROTC thing, too, but since he comes from a very long "greek line", and has heard about the greek system all his life, he was very interested. So, I guess that fraternity will just miss out on someone who would have been a great asset to them in many ways. They must not care about intramural sports anymore like they did when I was in school, or he would have been a shoe-in!! lol

Thanks again for the responses!

Widgetgirl - I am sorry things didn't work out for your son! I know it is tough now, but I imagine it will work out in the long run.

I am going to stick my nose into this thread, though, and give you a "heads up" since I read in your OP that you have daughter(s) who may be going through rush in the future. In the south, at schools with what is considered a competitive rush, (Ole Miss, Arkansas, etc) it definitely DOES matter if you daughter is from out of state. It does not mean that she won't get a bid, but it is definitely a factor. Also, no one will call the legacy connection of a rushee to explain if/why her daughter gets cut. That is actually not allowed by in the rules of recruitment.

I have a daughter (two, in fact) so I completely understand your position on this issue. I encourage you to read the archived recruitment threads on GC for info regarding NPC recruitment to get ready for your daughters rush. The help will be invaluable. :)

I just wanna know if I have by-chance dated your daughter...

I understand what you are saying about it being important to be from the state of the school you are trying to pledge at schools like Ole Miss, but I was talking about the legacy policy of the fraternities and sororities, not just someone going through rush.

I know the thread I was reading on here was in 2001, but the legacy policy (a legacy has to be invited to at least one invitational party and if they go to the preference party, they have to be at the top of the bid list, etc.) seemed to still be in effect for AGD, DG, Alpha Phi, AOII, Chi Omega, Tri Delta, AEPhi, and DPhiEpsilon.

Some of those also said that the relative DID have to be called if the legacy was released (sometimes it has to be by an advisor and sometimes it has to be BEFORE the next invitational party).

I spoke to my Kappa Delta friend, and she said they had to "jump through hoops" at LSU if they wanted to cut a legacy (basically EVERYONE up to the top of the sorority had to be in on the decision).

My mother (yes, I know that would have been a LONG time ago) also remembers having to call mothers, sisters, and grandmothers and tell them why their relative was cut. I'll have to contact my sorority (Sigma Kappa) to see what their policy is now, but when I was there, legacies did count!

So, again, I still say that fraternities must have different rules regarding how they handle legacies.

Oh, and thank you for the info, though, about my girls. At least one of them DOES want to go to Ole Miss, and since they would not be a legacy of any of the sororities there, the out-of-state thing is very important for them to know before going through rush.

I imagine fraternities do have a different set of rules...hopefully some of the above posters were of some help with that.

Regarding the notification of the relative of the released legacy, I would be very surprised to see that it is still in effect, but I cannot speak for Sigma Kappa. I guess that is something that nationals could tell you or maybe it is determined on a chapter by chapter basis. It would be interesting to find out...

widgetgirl...did u go to LSU?

At schools like Ole Miss, there are so many legacies going through recruitment that the entire pledge class could be made up of them. Girls who are legacies have to be cut, even if they are given extra consideration in the process. To update you on Phi Mu policy, we no longer allow chapter members/advisors to contact the sister in question in regards to her legacy's recruitment status. This is an issue of privacy for the potential member. I think many of the NPC sororities have changed to this policy since 2001.

But as to the fraternity legacy policies, I can't speak to that. Did your son continue rushing other fraternities, or did he give up on the idea of going Greek for this year?

I don't know specifically at Ole Miss, but at most SEC schools for the good houses we have the vast majority of our pledge class all but locked in before rush starts. We do take some guys that we meet for the first time during rush week. Meeting the guys in the summer before rush parties is a big deal and you're behind in the game if you weren't there for the summer.

Just a question, Cracker Barrel and Elephant Walk -

For guys who come in from out of state, and don't get a bid during formal because of all of the summer rushing, etc. How do sophomores do who wait and get to know some of the guys on campus their freshman year? Or are there spring pledge classes that fill up with those guys?

Spring classes will tend to be easier for out-of-state guys. And we obviously take way more freshman than sophomores, but guys who had trouble from not being there the summer before their freshman year can get bids if they're guys who you see at the bars, meet in classes/other clubs or stuff, or were in town and did a lot of the summer stuff.

I'm having a bit of a trouble reading it...

like sophomore transfers, who miss all the summer rush?

I don't know, we've had a few sophomore transfers do spring, but most kind of give up or figure they're too old to try and party at a fraternity house when they aren't freshman. In the years I've been with the fraternity, we've only had one and he knew guys in the house when he transferred here.

this was my first year doing formal recruitment but from what I understood and was told, we have to jump through hoops to cut a legacy as well. And I was told that they had to contact the relative of the legacy as well. But again, this was just what I was told and so cannot guarantee that it is true.

I was talking about a) out of state freshmen who don't get bids through fall formal because they didn't participate in anything during the summer (is it a stigma to get a spring bid?) and also b) sophomores who didn't go through recruitment their freshman year for various reasons (is it harder to be a sophomore like it is with sororities?).

I re-read my earlier post and it is kind of confusing!

a) yeah, its sort of a stigma to be a spring. There aren't "levels of brotherhood" by any means within the fraternity, but often some people will derisively say "he's a spring", meaning his opinion or whatever doesn't matter. It's because of a traditionally small pledge class that might have a few sort of weirdos in it. Not like super weird, but just not normal fall-style pledge class who knew they were joining a fraternity as soon as they came to school. But, with a smaller pledge class they also did often more work on house cleans and so forth...in some ways, I can admire them. Because of far smaller classes and the stigma of being a spring, they're also not likely to be elected to cabinet positions. In my years here, we've had 1 spring on cabinet.

b)I don't think sophomores are so stigmatized, but I'd rather have freshman. If we're working with our pledge classes and trying to figure out who we want, and a fresh and soph have equal qualification, fresh is going to win every, every time.

WOW! Since I've never been on here before, I had no idea how all of these threads got started. I actually had to print out what has been said so far so that I could figure out what I wanted to write! :)

First, jarred66, I did not go to LSU, but I did go to that other (non SEC) school in Louisiana - Louisiana Tech University. I'm so old that I went to school all four years with Karl Malone (The Mailman)! I did, however, have a lot of friends, who went to LSU.

Second, CarolinaCutie, thanks for the info on Phi Mu. I understand that sororities do not HAVE to pledge legacies. In my original question, I was just asking about the extra consideration (being able to meet more than two people in the first night), that's all. And, no, my son did not continue with rush because he didn't want to go to the invites he got back. I think I might have steered him wrong, though, by agreeing with him that you don't want to be a part of a group where you are not happy just to join a fraternity. I assumed (wrongly, I think, after reading Elephant Walk's last post) that he would have time to meet people during the year, at ballgames, at the bars (not condoning it...just know it happens), in The Grove, etc. I thought he'd have the Spring or next Fall, if he was interested. So, after reading all this, he's probably doomed!

Third, CrackerBarrel, I now know about what you are talking about in the summer before rush, going to the parties. I have since found out that my son did not attend many that he was asked to (not just by his father's fraternity) for two main reasons. One, he worked, and two, none of us had any idea that it was so important. If HE knew that it was important, he didn't mention it to me, but I am hearing that some of them didn't like that he didn't come. Maybe that's why they don't like the out of state kids, since they can't easily come to a party from (say) California--except for my son, since I'm a flight attendant...ok, now I'm rambling again! No, we were not that far away, but again, I know his work got in the way.

Last, thank you, sceniczip, for your input as well. Do you know if it mattered if the legacy was from out of state? Is your school in the south, and is it an SEC (competitive) school?

I'm just amazed at how things have changed. Personally, I think of every Sigma Kappa as a sorority sister, no matter what school they went to. I don't think less of them if they go to The University of Memphis here in Tennessee just because I went to school in Louisiana. I have always given my money to Sigma Kappa Foundation (not to any particular chapter). Guess I've learned a LOT! Wish I had found this site sooner...

My school is definitely not in the south lol. We're up in Ohio. It's not too competitive but I know there were a few disappointments this year so I'm not really sure how competitive it was. I think the legacies were all from in state but we do not put much emphasis on that. We have one legacy (possibly a double legacy, can't remember) who is from Texas. I think we actually have about three girls from Texas, not all of them legacies. Other than that we mostly get the neighboring states, especially PA. It's probably hard to compare it to since we're not nearly as competitive as the south, nor do we have the amount of legacies that the south has. So all of this probably does not pertain to your daughter if she decides to go to LSU (I believe you said you had a daughter that was interested in LSU?) but it's always good information to have :) I would actually love to go to LSU or Ole Miss just to see how recruitment works down there!

Sorry to write so much, but I have an interesting update. One, I just called my son to see how things are, and he is on a party bus for a fraternity. He couldn't hear me, and I actually thought he said a "party boat", but anyway, his father said that the rush chairman of one of the fraternities had called him yesterday and asked him what he had done. When he told him he hadn't done anything, they asked him to come over for a football game. I'm not sure if it's the same one that he went on the party bus with, but I guess I'll find out tomorrow. I'm assuming it's not one of the bigger ones, but at this point, I think he was impressed that someone called HIM!

Also...on the (dreaded) legacy subject: My ex-husband heard back today from the MANY people he contacted on Friday about our son being cut the first night from his fraternity. One of them was the chapter president, who said it is NOT the policy of THIS particular fraternity/chapter to cut any legacy on the first night! They want to continue the tradition of making sure that the legacy gets to meet as many members as possible, etc. Supposedly there will be some investigating to see what happened, but no one is promising anything...

...good thing, cause my son JUST called his dad and told him that another frat asked him to pledge today...and he is! Unfortunately, my ex can't remember the name of it! Can you believe that? I guess he's just kind of unhappy that it's not HIS, and I don't think it's one that we had at Tech. But he DID say he sounded very happy, so I am, too!!

Wonder if it was the football game! Told you he was athletic!! ;)

Hi Widgetgirl,
I am a mom, too, although my kids are a little older and are now out of college. Fraternities do things TOTALLY different from sororities. They're not nearly as well organized nor as vigilant about their legacies. Whoever mentioned the summer parties is right. I went to the University of Alabama, and the fraternities there do things very similarly to Ole Miss. Formal recruitment for them is just an afterthought.

Sounds like your son has got things pretty well figured out! I know I worried WAY more than my kids did about any of this stuff!:p

Thank you...I'm sure that you're right that it has been WAY more traumatic for me than it has been for him! He's my oldest, though, and I am learning! Thank goodness for Google and this site!! Take care

Congratulations to your son on his new fraternity! I'm glad he was so happy!

Yea for Widgitgirl's son! Sounds like this was a case of the guys not really knowing about your son, realizing they let a good guy slip through the cracks, and coming back around to correct the situation! Congrats to your son!

Welcome to GC!

I thought it sounded odd that a legacy would be cut after the first night. I hope the chapter is able to figure out what went wrong on their part.

Congratulations to your son! And if I may, if you feel comfortable doing so, once you know which fraternity, would you please report back to us?

Do you, by chance, go to Ole Miss? Hate to say too much (as if I haven't already!!)

i know that my chapter is not but about half as big as most at ole miss, and i do realize it is a completely diff greek life. but at my school the only ppl we respect more than eachother is our alumni. one of my pledge brothers was the biggest tool known to man but still got a bid because he was a legacy and we also extended a bid to a legacy this semester just because he was a legacy even though he never came out to our house. unless your son just slipped through the cracks or gave off a bad first impression and or physical impression. i cant see why they would not give him a bid, especially if his father makes extensive contributions to the chapter. i am curious though which fraternity he was a legacy to?

No ma'am. I am a graduate of the University of Kentucky.

Go Cats!

SHSUATO - Thanks for your post. I really didn't want anyone to pledge my son JUST because he was a legacy. We just never dreamed there would be a problem with a guy who is very good looking (if it's any indication, my 16-year-old daughter's friends all say he is "hot"), very athletic (played competitive, travel baseball, was captain of his trap-shooting team, and his job was at a large gym), and is very smart (grades are not perfect, but were good enough to get him a scholarship--even the Army has it's standards, believe it or not), and extremely personable (can not only talk to kids, but adults have commented all his life on how well he talks to even them). So, if anyone on here is thinking that he got cut because he's a loser, believe me (and I know I'm his mother, but I've been Greek, and I KNOW the standards), he's NOT!

I really did start this thread just to find out information on how the legacy thing works now, and I have learned SO much! I appreciate every single person on here and their comments. I appreciate anyone who is still in school and knows the scoop, I appreciate the alumni who know the scoop now and also remember the past, and I appreciate the mothers who know exactly how I feel!

My son is very happy where he is, so I hate to mention the fraternity that he was a legacy of. It is my understanding that they (for some reason) were not aware, so I don't want to worry about it anymore. I'll be honest with you--he wouldn't have wanted to be "kept" just because of the legacy thing anyway...it was just ME (and my ex) who were wondering what happened.

So, thank you, again, for everything...I've really enjoyed all this. I think I'll be hooked for a while, though--just what I need with four other kids and a job! :eek:

As it should be! Again congrats to your son and to the chapter that was fortunate to bid him. I am sure he'll have a great time at Ole Miss.