Greek life at the Southern Ivies
 

I'm doing some research. Could all of you who know answer my questions on three southern schools: Vanderbilt, University of Virginia, and Duke.

Which one has the largest Greek life (Vanderbilt, University of Virginia, or Duke)?
Which one has the largest percentage of students involved in Greek life?
Which one has the most active (by active I mean Greeks who are involved in student government, homecoming, etc.) Greek life?

/hijack/ Sorry, I have to giggle at the term "Southern Ivies". The schools you reference are not Ivy League, for two reasons: The term "Ivy League" originally referred to a eight private schools in the NCAA athletic conference. More contemporary usage of the term "Ivy League" referrences the group as the country's oldest, academically prestigious universities. (Thank you WIKI). As someone who has lived in the northeast my entire life, I had never heard the term "southern ivies" until about a year ago, and it was here. It just seems like an odd concept to me. /end hijack/

As to your questions - you can look up the answers online; I am sure that there are stats on size/percentage of Greek life, and anecdotal evidence of positions, clubs, participation, etc.

The term "public ivies" is now bandied about to describe academically prestigious universities. In much the same way as "Xerox" is used to describe any copier, or any soft drink in the south is a "Coke", "ivy" is used to describe a school with a good academic reputation.

And yet it's a concept that has been around for at least 50 years or so. In the late 50s/early 60s, Vanderbilt invited four other Southern private schools -- Southern Methodist, Rice, Duke, and Tulane -- to form a new athletic conference: a "Southern Ivy League" (also called the "Magnolia League"). While there was some interest for a while, it never came to pass. SMU and Rice didn't want to lose their share of Cotton Bowl income, and Duke was not willing to forgo its traditional rivalry with the University of North Carolina. Since that time, the term "Southern Ivies" has been used widely in the South, though without an established definition or list of schools, to refer to schools that can be seen as Southern counterparts to the (northern) Ivy League. Sometimes it is used to to refer only to private schools, sometimes public schools like UVa or UNC (both included in Richard Moll's original 1985 list of "public ivies").

Too bad that your lifelong confinement to the northeast has led to ignorance and giggles. :p ;)

Uhm thanks...I guess...I know what Ivy league is and the terms Southern Ivies & Public Ivies is commonly used to describe academically rigourous schools in various locations...perhaps you can look that up....

I can look up stats on Greek Life as well as ask GCers.

Pretentious much?'

edit: And if you're considering UVa, you mind as well consider UNC as well.

Well, given where she said she's from, isn't this question somewhat redundant?

[ducking and covering]

And I agree -- if UVa is to be considered, it makes sense to include UNC as well, although I figured that the OP had her reasons for asking about 3 specific schools.

Ouch.

I was looking at it specifically from a "brand identity" perspective. "Ivy League" has specific connotations, especially in the northeast. I have heard people use the word "Coke" for any kind of soda (in Arkansas), and it still confuses me when I get Pepsi.

I don't feel "confined" geographically, and yes, I have been out of state further than New Jersey. I take offense to the term "ignorant". The term, as you have used it here, implies that I am lacking (all) knowledge, when the issue - which I admitted - is that I had only recently heard of the term "southern ivies". Would it be okay to mock you for not understanding the terms "tonic" or "bubbler"?

How does my unfamiliarity with a phrase make me pretentious? I didn't make any judgments.

What is this animosity to the northeast? I thought the civil war was over. Good grief.

Giggle all you want to -- you're the one who has never heard the term.

This has nothing to do with this thread.... but I love the word bubbler!

I had no idea until I was like 8 that not everyone else called it that...

Bless your heart. Some people can be just a little touchy when other folks are having a bit of fun at their expense, can't they? (And no, it would not be okay for you to mock me for not understanding the terms "tonic" or "bubbler," because I do know what they mean.)

And yes, the War Between the States is over. (Sorry, I usually call it the Civil War, but sometimes it's more fun this way.) Unfortunately, the experience of too many of us is that Yankee arrogance did not end with it. (That's a joke, BTW.)

Seriously, if you're going to come on a forum and "giggle" at "odd concepts" that are quite familiar to lots of people, and if you're then going to treat the OP as if she is ignorant by not knowing what the Ivy League really is, then you really can't be surprised to receive a reply in kind, can you? ;)

She's not the only one who hasn't heard the term.

Yay for tonic and bubbler!

And I didn't know that other people didn't use these terms until I went to college!

Along with "wicked pissah", "packie", and "carriage" (which is what you push around in the grocery store) :p

And yes, to say that someone is ignorant because of this is a little much. Quite frankly, I've never even heard of "Southern Ivies", and the Ivy League schools I know are the ones that are most commonly referred to as such.

Would I automatically assume that someone was wrong because they called these schools Southern Ivies? Probably not. But would I say that everyone from one particular region of the country is pretentious because of a comment that one person made? Definitely not.

Just for the record, I never would have said it she hadn't brought it up first:
and if her post hadn't had the tone of "you obviously don't know what the Ivy League is; let me instruct you." But those two things just bring out the mischievous side of me, I reckon.

ETA: And for the record, the only reason I threw in ignorance was because of what ree-Xi said that I quoted in this post -- that having lived all her life in the northeast, she had never heard the term (and presumably was therefore ignorant of the term, not ignorant of all things) until hearing it here. To paraphrase Sissy Spacek in "Coal Miner's Daughter," being ignorant ain't being stupid. My comment was accompanied by a :p and ;), intended to show that I was not in the least being serious. Sorry if that was lost on anyone.

hijack/
Blubber- that's a Judy Blume book

Doesn't it just mean fat, or am I missing something?

ha ha, I did the same thing when I first looked.

Bubbler - New Englandese for a water fountain/drinking fountain
Blubber - Linda Fischer/subject of JB's book

Whoops, I was seeing Blubber, but I guess it is BUBBLER. But I did love the book!

I understand where you are coming from, but I think Ree-Xi is "upset" because the word ignorant is very harsh, and usually connotes more than what you implied it to be.

Unaware or uninformed might have been better suited to describe the situation.

^^^ Fair enough.

Your willingness to instruct the OP on what a real "Ivy" is, is pretentious. The OP (as well as I) am well aware what an Ivy League school is. Which is why we call it a Southern Ivy.

I was exiled to New Jersey (Cherry Hill and Bridgewater) for 5 hellish years. So, yeah, I know what a "bubbler" and a "tonic" are. And yes, we did indeed lose the War to Suppress Yankee Arrogance. :rolleyes: :)

I was about to say, I've never even been up there but I know that stuff.

I thought bubbler was more of a Wisconsin thing though?

twisting vines...
 

Those of us who grew up among these schools often lovingly--and I do mean lovingly--refer to such group of schools as the Kudzu League. I don't know of a finer education offered than at some of these schools,especially since two close family members went to Vandy and various other friends and family went to other Kudzu schools, but the "Ivy League" was already defined before most of these gained prominence. And with the proliferation of Kudzu in the South...it's just a vine thing!

I did, too! I didn't know it was a Northeastern thing, too.

My original statement was not intended to sound arrogant. As someone who, for more than 3 decades, associated "Ivy League" with a specific small group of Universities in the north east, it made me "giggle", because to me, it would be the equivalent of saying the Big East (basketball, not football) is "The Northern SEC". There is only one SEC, as there is only one Ivy League.

No pretentions, no arrangonce intended.

PS Tonic water = club soda.

When I was in high school, I had a houseparent that called the Civil War/War Between the States the War of Northern Aggression. :eek: :D

According to Wiki Tonic Water is a carbonated beverage flavored with quinine and Club Soda (aka Seltzer, or Carbonated Water) is simply water infused with carbon to make it bubbly (no flavor). . . .

Thanks. I didn't know if it was a funny, old fashioned way of calling cough syrup something else.

No I live in Connecticut, have my whole 21 years and I personally have never heard tonic used to mean club soda. . . I am however very familiar with wicked, jimmies, frappes, and my two personal favorites from high school packy and cocked. . .

Oh boy....I've never been to new england (for real)....and until this post, I've never heard of any of those words (except wicked).

...I never thought I'd say this, but thank goodness for urban dictionary. jimmies = sprinkles? That's hilarious.


U.D. didnt have frappes though. what is that? frappuccino?:o

Frappes = Ice Cream Shake NOT a milk shake (which is simply milk and syrup mixed together) a frappe is milk syrup and ice cream

Packy = Package store and u better make sure you get there before 9. . . Unless you want to have to buy half pints from the bootlegger in Hartford

Cocked = Wasted, Smashed, Hammered, Blitzed

*Frappes and Jimmies are more Massachusetts terms that I picked up from summers on Nantucket*

Weird enough, OR used this word for the little "How to Frat Hard"

I think the line goes "Tell the dean you've been off drugs for six hours and you're so cocked you're not sure if the dean isn't a cougar so could he roar for you. Smile for the cameras."

That's not verbatim, but whatever.

Confession -- that's really what I meant to say, but I ended up typing "War Between the States" instead. I guess subconsciously I just couldn't let myself go that far. ;):D

Well, since Civil War isn't a very accurate name (the CSA did not try to take over the whole country) I never liked using it, and of course I grew up hearing many others:

The Late Unpleasantness
The War
The War for Southern Independence
The War to Supress Northern Aggression
The War to Supress Northern Arrogance
The War Between the States

I believe TWBTS is the most common.

Anyone want a coffee, regular?
 

Reading this thread makes we want to dig out my "Harvard, Emory of the North" t-shirt that I bought in the bookstore when I was a freshman and wear it to a Red Sox game next spring.

According to my Vanderbilt alum friend, they sold the same shirts at her bookstore too.

My grandparents used that one, usually a little tongue-in-cheek. I still love it. :D

My 11-year-old thinks Civil War is an oxymoron.

So to actually answer your original question....
 

...and I can only speak for my beloved Blue Devils, but Greek Life is important but not all-encompassing. Like Penn, Dartmouth, and other academically rigorous schools (NOT trying to start a flame war here folks, just speaking in generalized terms) the students have a good time and use their sorority/fraternity memberships as social outlets, and not as much as the "if I don't get XYZ I'll be a society outcast forever" mentality you may find at other schools where all things revolve around greek life. MANY of the students at these schools see college as a "stepping stone" to graduate school so focus is on academics first, greek life second or third...its not as high a priority as it may be on other campuses.

As for your specific answers, your best bet is to view each campuses greek life section for additional real-time information. In a school like Duke, your Greek involvement in leadership positions may be extremely high, but it's a smaller campus than a UVA or UNC (20,000 at UNC versus 6,000) so take that into consideration. Many of our former student leaders were Greek though.

And to add to the fun, for many years Duke has been called the Harvard of the South...and also the University of New Jersey at Durham. :D

But not by the same people. :p:D

actually, in New England, “tonic” can be used to simply mean soda. It’s generally an older term though. My grandparents still use it. And jimmies and frappes are a general New England thing, not just Massachusetts as Nanners52674 said. I grew up in New Hampshire, and moved to MA, and I heard them used everywhere. Although, in Rhode Island, a frappe is actually called a “cabinet”

I heart New England.

[quote=EEKappa;1729409]"Harvard, Emory of the North" quote]

This reminds me of my high school history teacher. He always jokingly referred to the community college he went to as "The Harvard of the Midwest".