Second Presidential Debate
 

I feel sorry for Tom Brokaw, truly. Other than their complete inability to follow the rules set up by their own people, I've yet to hear anything new or remarkable in this debate. A yawner, really. Perhaps I'm tired but I'm having a hard time even paying attention to this one.

What I found more entertaining was the dopey woman in the blue shirt in the back row of one of the sections. She looked like she had some good stuff before that debate!

AND watching McCain's facial expressions while Obama was talking - he made some good ones. Boyfriend and I decided McCain didn't sit down at all because he didn't want people to see him struggle to get up.

Obama will without a doubt keep his lead.

ETA: the GOP analysts on CNN agree

ETA2: CNN "flash" polls show all of Obama's numbers went up after debate

Actually, McCain standing and moving around while Obama was talking was part of what was distracting me, now that you mention it. I wonder if that was the intended effect?

Probably. Well - that and the septuagenarians have a tendency to move around just to make sure the blood's still flowin' to their feet.

Ok - that's enough of the old jokes for me.

I agree - I thought it was a snooze. Although, points for Tom Brokaw for calling them out on going over time (even though both of them tended to, every. single. question.).

*yawn*
I thought that Tom did as good a job as possible trying to reign in the candidates. and I agree that there wasn't much new material presented and I thought both candidates danced around many of the questions. I was impressed at the quality of some of the audience questions, they demonstrated a good understanding of world politics and economics. I thought that Obama did better than I expected given the format that was said to favor McCain. All in all, I am still not swayed either way just yet but I am beginning to lean...........

Across the blogs the one consistent thing I'm seeing mentioned is the "That One" remark. In fact, I've seen the youtube clip of it about 4 times now. Funny how a little thing like that gets legs.

Maybe that's what most people saw, but I thought McCain might have been a bit excited! I know if that was me, i'd want to be on my feet, ready to answer the next question. I saw that as a positive for McCain... he actually looked a bit younger, staying on his feet.

On the flip side, did anyone notice Obama's stance while he was sitting on the stool? Straight out of a GQ cover shoot! lol.

Agree--Debate was a *yawn* I actually liked when the candidates fought for more follow-up time...finally, something exciting! Overall, I don't think this one will move the numbers either way.

BOOORING.

There was no point in having a town hall if Brokaw was going to talk more than anyone else - including the candidates.

Not much changed in that, neither one answered anything interesting and just repeated talking points over and over.

The only interesting thing to see will be if the media runs with McCain's mortgage bailout plan, it was the only new thing in the debate tonight and if it gets significant press time he wins for grabbing the headlines. If not, tie, which obviously favors Obama now.

That little clip made me laugh b/c I imagined how some morons will take that comment apart and make it out to be a HUGE pitfall and drama.

Yawnnnn. . . . With the exception of one question, when asked first to McCain if health care is a privilege, right or responsibility? McCain responded that it is a responsibility which i completely agree with but he offered no real follow up at to who is responsible. Then Obama answered and right off the bat he said i believe health care is a RIGHT. I'll admit im biased I've liked Obama from the beginning but never really had a negative thing to say about McCain I just liked Obama better. But for McCain tonight to not be able to say that health care is a right is really disappointing to me as a college student who upon graduation will be with out health care unless i get a job that provides it.

DANG IT - my post got deleted somehow. Anyway, the short of it was that I'd like to see these two candidates brawl for real. Obama was soft. McCain made some funky comments (e.g. "that one" and the I-guess-it-was-a-joke-:confused: about Brokaw) that got a little eyebrow raise from me.

It was condescending and icky.

Fox News Text Vote
 

As of 11:30PM...

Who won the debate tonight?
A. McCain - 86%
B. Obama - 12%
C. Undecided - 1%

I didn't think the debate was that clear-cut... but I guess for most Fox News viewers it was.

Drudge and WSJ's online polls are both pretty similar where as CNN is split almost the same numbers but for Obama. I think you're just seeing a growing divide in where American's get their news because after this campaign it's going to take a while for ANY news source to really be seen as neutral again.

LOL. (clearly all the College Republican Clubs were busy texting their little fingers off)

People are also picking apart the comment McCain made to an audience member... "you probably never heard of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac before"... Although that statement stuck out to me, because I wondered who didn't know about Fannie/Freddie, I'm a little over the tid-for-tat in this election...by both the media and the candidates. It's getting old.

I was surprised b/c the Fox News text votes for the Palin/Biden debate were consistent with the results of the other networks.

You said it! It's funny (and a bit annoying) how I have to click back and forth between CNN or MSNBC and Fox News in an attempt to get a more balanced approach to news. Maybe I should just stick to CSPAN, hmmm....BOOORING! :rolleyes:

So you heard what you wanted to hear? I don't mean that to be harsh, either - this just seems like a narrow response.

Why on Earth would a commodity be a right? This isn't an abstraction, like "food" - this is an actual, pay-for-services commodity. There's a reason why doctors make good money, right? Remember - "health care" for the purposes of the question is absolutely not the same as "medical care" - there is a very specific meaning at play here (namely, insurance coverage).

pink another thing that is coming out too (on MSNBC) not only did he say it condescendingly I may add...he was addressing a Black male and also flubbed his name.

some other points

Mcain talked about buying up bad mortgages?

DIDNT THE US GOVT JUST DO THAT LAST WEEK???


another thing

especially since Palin spent the weekend and thru today talkign about it:

McCain had Obama on HIS floor in HIS format that he requested and not ONCE say CRAP about Ayres or Obama's 'questionable' associations?

and one last thing the MSM will pick apart

here is when McCain got unraveled

By the way, my friends, I know you grow a little weary with this back-and-forth. It was an energy bill on the floor of the Senate loaded down with goodies, billions for the oil companies, and it was sponsored by Bush and Cheney.

You know who voted for it? You might never know. That one. You know who voted against it? Me. I have fought time after time against these pork barrel -- these bills that come to the floor and they have all kinds of goodies and all kinds of things in them for everybody and they buy off the votes.



http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...al_debate.html

I think it's been pretty well reported that Palin was tasked with pinning the association stuff on Obama, the goal was to keep McCain from having to do it.

I just thought that McCain's answer to that question summed up his campaign.....it was another missed opportunity to gain an advantage and show the public he gets what middle America is going through right now. McCain's answer totally goes to the perception that he is "out of touch". I don't know how EITHER candidate could miss the opportunity to say that Americans have a RIGHT to health care coverage, even if each candidate differs on HOW and WHO should pay for it? Even if his answer were B.S., I would have at least apprciated it if McCain tried to show he understands that health care coverage is a HUGE problem in this country (and a $5K tax break wouldn't even BEGIN to cover the premiums or co-pays if you got so much as a broken arm). Even when McCain answered health care coverage was a RESPONSIBILITY, I didn't hear WHOSE responsibility he thought it was? (If anyone heard it differently, feel free to respond)

DaemonSeid--I didn't expect McCain to come out and make accusations about Obama-Ayers or attack his character all together. Why would he do such a dirty job and look bitter on primetime? I think that may be more appropriate for a rally.

I saw that it was a black man who asked the question, but honestly, i don't see the link between McCain's answers and the man itself... seems like a stretch to say he was taking down to him. Perhaps a presidential candidate should be better about remembering names, I suck at it, so I can't comment.

Regarding the "bail out for mortgages"... I was confused about this new proposal. I definitely wanted him to clarify.

great send the woman to do the man's job.

nittany...on the real...that was McCains opportunity to slide it in..Palin been doing it all week....that is punkish to talk about a man when he is not there to defend himself but at the moment you have him right in front of you, you remain silent.

But this is how I feel: The American public doesn't want to hear about that

F**k a smear.....fix the economy.

The black kid and his name: Who cares?

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac: He actually said that some of you may not have even heard of them BEFORE THIS CRISIS. See the difference?

Bailout: No, read about the bailout bill if you want an in depth explanation, but the bailout authorized the secretary to buy mortgage backed tradable securities (pseudo-bonds essentially) from banks, not to buy and renegotiate mortgage portfolios.

Ayers: He didn't bring it up because he was never planning to. He's upset that they're having to use negative campaigning and that's why he's having the ads and Palin do it rather than going after those points himself.

"That one": It didn't bother me at all, but I'm sure Obama's campaign will manage to stir plenty of fury about it up from the Obamaniacs. Obama could say the same thing and I wouldn't be bothered then either. "You know which of us voted for that? It wasn't me, it was that one." I don't see the cause for the outrage, who cares? "Which one?" "That one." Seems like a pretty reasonable flow for the comment to me, but I'm not hyper sensitive and whining about "Mean ol' John" like the Obama campaign has made one of their goals of the debate, so maybe I'm missing something.

I see it too...but the way it 'appeared' was just......off

Take it from me....when I ask you a question like that, the last thing I want from a white guy is to treat me like a child because obviously I understood it long enough to ask you about it.

My opinion - not speaking for any political group here, just what I think. Health insurance is only "a right" in the sense that you have a right to have it if you want, you are welcome to get health insurance. It's not a right in the sense that you should just wait for someone to come insure you. We aren't a nanny state, watch out for yourself instead of expecting the government to save the day. It is a responsibility - if you are a responsible person you will take that responsibility and either go get a job with health benefits or make health insurance fit in your budget.

I totally bristled at the "that one" comment (I thought is was rude and disrespectful not to refer to his opponent by name) , couple that with the fact that once again, Sen. McCain did not seem to want to be cordial to Sen Obama after the debate, makes me question whether to believe Senator McCain will actually make the effort to "reach across the aisle" in a bipartisan fashion as President. (I know he may have trouble actually shaking hands, but it seems that McCain avoids eye contact and hand shakes with Obama--- he did it at the last debate, on the Senate floor during the bailout, and tonight)

(CORRECTION) This morning Brokaw said the candidates did shake hands last night-but I still stand by my comments overall, McCain is "prickly" when in attack mode.

Oh "That One" bounced out as soon as it was over while Obama stayed on the floor and talked with voters for 20 mins.....

short version is this: McCain was made to look like a grumpy old man who was desperate and many times appeared angry and contrite even with Brokaw...and Obama looked poised and polished....NO TELEPROMPTER needed.

I believe health care coverage is a right in the sense that all Americans should have the OPPORTUNITY to have health insurance coverage and be able to AFFORD to pay for it and that we are treated FAIRLY when the insurance company has to pay the claims. I'm not expecting anything to be HANDED out to the masses with no personal responsibility to maintain coverage. (Exception: I think all children should have some type of coverage)

CB, this feeds right into the "out of touch with real people's problems" argument. There is so much wrong and uninformed in your statement I don't even know where to begin.

I'm still baffled... who has never heard of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac BEFORE this crisis? If overwhelmingly, people have never heard of such huge American mortgage organizations... that's sad. Just sad. :(

I know there are plenty of "responsible" people who would love a job that offers health insurance, but cannot nail one. If they aren't qualified for those jobs, I'm 99.9% certain they probably can't afford to fit "individual" health insurance into their budget.

Perhaps the health care "right" vs "responsibility" is another one of those issues we can all agree to disagree... Add to the list with abortion, gun control, same sex marriage and capitol punishment.

If Obama had said it, I would have said it was condescending. There's no reason not to use someone's name unless you're trying to make a point or a jab.

I don't agree with fixed pricing, I'm a big free market economics fan and just don't see a way to do it. You can either socialize it (ick) or put a cap on prices, but if you cap prices than you will just see a benefit cut because in a speculative industry like insurance you have to make enough money to be able to pay out a lot of policies at once if need be. It's further complicated by the fact that insurance companies are themselves insured and if you cap their pricing than you may keep them from being able to afford to be reinsured.

But I agree that we should see some changes in pay out structures, people are treated unfairly by their insurance companies.

I thought this format was a real disadvantage to McCain. Maybe he likes town halls when it's a Republican audience, but these weren't his peeps in the audience tonight. No one to laugh at his awkward "jokes" or ask the questions he's planted. I also thought he looked really OLD shuffling around the stage the way he did, and the more I listen to him, the older and shakier he sounds to me.

I watched after-debate coverage on CNN and MSNBC, and they made a few points over and over: the "that one" reference was disrespectful; that Obama looked/sounded like the future and McCain looked/sounded like the past; that McCain is out of touch with the generations younger than him that are watching the debate (all his nostalgia for Reagan); and that Obama seized the opportunity to talk to the debate attendees afterward whereas McCain took off.

BTW, MSNBC, CNN and CBS polls all are showing numbers overwhelmingly in Obama's favor tonight, not just in terms of who won the debate but also who is strongest on economy and who expresses their ideas more clearly.

here is the quote:

"But you know, one of the real catalysts, really the match that lit this fire was Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. I'll bet you, you may never even have heard of them before this crisis."

and from the way it appeared...he was addressing HIM when he said it....


again...it looked all kinds of wrong and condescending.


and can someone explain to me McCain wanting to plan another buy out?

'I would order the secretary of the treasury to immediately buy up the bad home loan mortgages in America and renegotiate at the new value of those homes -- at the diminished value of those homes and let people be able to make those -- be able to make those payments and stay in their homes.'


uhhh then what just happened last week?

McCain reminds me so much of my late grandfather. I kinda want him to tuck me in and read me a bedtime story. I really like him as a person and I have been disgusted by jokes about his arms (among other things) that were the result of the sacrifice he made in Vietnam.

It's a pick yourself up by your bootstraps attitude. I guarantee you that most people buy things that they could do without if they had to pick between that and health care. I agree, health care is important, important enough that you do what it takes to get insurance. Now I understand that there are going to be some emergency situations where people can't make ends meet on health insurance for a short time. If you have a medical crisis during that time then most private hospitals have a charity fund that is used to treat such emergency situations and there are lots of other charities that do the same. And for non-emergency medical care in those times of crisis, I know in my area there are a number of low-income and free clinics that are run by some of the big doctors offices in the area and staffed by either volunteers from amongst their employees or employees who are paid to do a certain number of hours a month at the clinic. You rely on the goodness of people, not the goodness of the government. That's the role for charity to play in my opinion.

And I do support the government facilitating the creation of risk pools so that small businesses can group together to improve their bargaining position with insurance companies and make it a better assumption of risk for the company by having a larger coverage pool to pay in. That alone would allow a lot of additional businesses to provide health care. I think more businesses should be providing health insurance because it's in their best interest to have a healthy workforce and where it's possible to help them provide insurance without undermining the market system we should do so.

If ever there was a system where by McCain's standards we would get $5000 to buy insurance you can guarantee 2 things

1. Not everyone will be eligible to get 5000 or even part of that money

2. It would be taxed....I don't think anyone want that money taxed on their healthcare...can you see trying to pay for meds you can barely afford and have to pay taxes on it too?

CrackerBarrel (love your rocking chairs, btw), what do you pay each month for health insurance?

I don't get why we attach health insurance in this country to employers. The two have nothing to do with each other.