It's definitely a college thing in the places I've lived.

Um, you can't sign a legal contract until you are 18. It's unreasonable to think that preschoolers, or elementary school-aged children, are going to buck their parents - especially depending on how it is presented. Kate has shown herself to be very controlling - why would this issue be any different?

I'm just done with the whole thing. I think they are venturing into exploitation of their children, and I don't want to support it. Whatever their secrets regarding their family relations, if they didn't want to explain or be scrutinized they shouldn't have become reality tv stars. And if Jon wants to be able to play beer pong in peace he should ditch the tv gig. If not, I don't want to hear any whining about their privacy being breached. That's the deal, bucko - you become a media darling, you have no "privacy".

I can't remember when it happened (2 seasons ago, maybe? - so they must have been 6 or 7), but I know for a fact that if Mady and Cara don't want to be filmed, they say so. I know Mady's made "No Cameras Allowed" signs for her room before. AFAIK, Jon, Kate, and the crew have been respectful of that. Mady and Cara's room (after the renovation in the old house) did not have the bright filming lights the other rooms had because they often retreated to their room for privacy.

That works - as long as the 6 don't mind being filmed. What happens if 1 of the 6 doesn't like it? Or just 2 of the 6? I find it difficult to believe that Kate would be okay with stopping then. But maybe I'm completely wrong, and they are not exploiting the kids for financial gain, but with the childrens' best interest in mind.

Maybe.

You are right, OTW. The older girls are very good about letting the adults know when they don't want to participate. I think that has been a really great way for Jon and Kate to give the older girls more autonomy and a "say" in what goes on around them. And that is my point regarding the younger ones. For someone to think a 2 year old, or even a four year old, is going to say "no" to a day at the zoo is kind of silly. They are just not able to do that..yet. But I think we will see it more and more.

Just curious...

Say you had 8 kids. You're a nurse and your husband's a computer dude. How would the two of you manage to pay for all 8's college tuition? Food and clothes for the next 10-15 years? Would you rely on government assistance and pray like hell they get scholarships and other free money?

I'm wondering how the McCaugheys did it with their septuplets. While they didn't have a reality show, I remember reading they did have music and book deals.

The same way I do my 4 - um, work? Get help from family and friends? (I have always relied on family and friends for childcare help.) Perhaps write books about it, maybe do a special or two, but I would not have my home become a television production set. As to college, colleges seem to have this thing about scholarships for multiples - I know of several sets who have been given scholarships seemingly because of their "multiple" status. I'm sure they were otherwise qualified, but still.

And let me point to the Duggars, who until recently HAD no television show, and yet they've provided all these years for all of theirs.

The Duggars live debt-free because they have several commercial properties they rent. Do we know if their families are wealthy? Michelle's dad looked like he lived on a sweet piece of property. Maybe the parents gave em a wad of cash to buy property? While they were young when they married, they didn't have all 18 at one time. I just don't buy the fact that Jim Bob and Michelle didn't get a lot of financial help from their family, especially in the early years.

Sure, you work. But would you work so much that you couldn't spend time with your kids? There's only so many hours a day you can work to earn that money. Methinks that still wouldn't be enough.

The show started out with just those first two specials. America became so fascinated with them that the show was created. I don't think J&K are the only ones to blame.

Were your 4 born at the same time? I've heard it a lot that the Gosselins should be able to do it themselves because other people have X number of children and they did it themselves. But these people didn't have 6 kids that were born at the same time, needing the EXACT same things at the EXACT same time.

I don't see what the big deal is, because I'm pretty sure that a lot of us (if presented with an offer like Gosselins) would take it. I know I would, especially if I was in Kate's situation. I can't imagine what life would be like for them if they did not have this TV show. Jon & Kate would not have made enough money to take care of these children. I don't see the problem with the TV show. It allows Jon and Kate to stay home with their children, giving them the time & attention the children might not have otherwise gotten w/o a TV show.

In my opinion, you CAN NOT compare the Duggars to the Gosselins. In fact, I hate comparing, in general. But since you brought up the Duggars let's compare. Within the first 5 years of marriage, the Duggars had 1 kid (Josh), the Gosselins had 8.


If I remember correctly, when I read how Jim Bob & Michelle got together, Jim Bob did mention that Michelle came from a more wealthy family (that and she wasn't religious at all). I do think that, at least at the beginning, Jim Bob & Michelle's family helped out.


According to this article, Jon & Kate parents don't help out because they "disapprove" of and don't want to take part in the show.

NIGHTMARE.

Other famlies of multiples have managed without subjecting their children to the rigors of filming.(I'm thinking of the family here in Houston who also had 6 after having 2 - no television show - HOW DO THEY DO IT????) It can, and has been done. I think it was less intrusive when the children were smaller. Now that they are getting ready to all be in school, I think it's too much. I answered the question I was asked, and I stick by what I said. Whether you have yours all at once, or spread 'em out, you've still got to provide for them, and most families manage without a television show. I really hate the way the Gosselins continue to plead poor, when we know they are doing quite well for themselves. As to the Duggars - let's just point out that once all 6 were potty trained, Kate was done with diapers. Michelle isn't out of them yet. I've long said it would be easier to have a few at the same developmental stage - taking naps at the same time, going to bed at the same time - then to have several at totally different stages. My two sets of two were 24 and 15 months apart - and a newborn and a toddler will eat your lunch!

If you enjoy the show, by all means continue to enjoy it. I just see a future "Child Stars Follow-Up" in the offing, and wish the Gosselins would consider scaling back. They've got two books out - and I think follow-up specials would be appropriate. But those kids need some time to REALLY be just kids, imho. That doesn't happen with a camera pointed at you.

eta - And do you really think Maddy or Cara should have to stay in their room behind a NO FILMING sign? Is that fair to them? Even if they aren't filmed, their lives are affected.

I work with a woman who goes to the first church that Jon and Kate went to. This was the church that helped raise money, solicited donations from local businesses and provided 24-hour help to the family when the 'tups were born. According to her, back then J&K were pretty normal, had a lot of support from both sides of their families. But Mady was a brat.

After the J&K got the contract with TLC, they basically abandoned the first church - turning their backs on the people who helped them in the begining. They moved, joined another congregation, but apparently they were not receiving the attention or freebies that they had gotten at the first church.

They have since returned to the first church, Jon sits on some sort of board and Kate yells at the parishoners for "looking" at her children. My co-worker says most of the kids are sweet and very friendly, but Mady is still a giant brat. She says alot of parishoners have turned their back on J&K because they don't agree with them doing the show and treating the people who did help them (like Jodi- who also goes to the church) like poop.

I think this is, without a doubt, one of those "you can't really know unless you are in their shoes" type of situations.

I tend to agree with SWTXBelle in thinking that if your family is fortunate enough to get a book deal, and some tv specials, by all means cash in, but A) if family relationships are suffering,B) your children are being filmed more often than not, C) your other children are becoming resentful, D) you are the subject of secret beer pong photos and media scoops... then it is time to back off a bit.

IMO - the tail is wagging the dog at this point. Plenty of people have large families. They figure out how to do it. And 6-8 children of varying ages cost just as much, if not more than 6- 8 that are all the same age. I am not blaming J & K for being enterprising and smart - just finding fault with what it and they have turned into.

And actually the Dilley sextuplets were the first set. They had some publicity, but not to the extent of J&K+8.

No, I agree with this.

This makes me relieved to know that Jon isn't completely pussywhipped. Anyone who calls this a "scandal" is someone who also says hideous things like "my children are my life" (umm, what about your husband and other relatives?).

It was easier for the Duggars, simply because of the hand-me-down situation.

But Kate CAN'T shop at Goodwill! How would she be able to dress them all alike that way?!

Don't bite the hand that feeds you.

Kate's a bitch.

You do know that they don't film everyday, right? They have only certain days that are "shooting days" so the kids aren't on camera every single day.


Although there is probably some truth to what this woman says, i'd also take it with a grain of salt. People are always going to spin their story, so unless you you to the church as well, I'd be a little leary.



Mady is a brat, I completely agree. But then again, she's at that age. I know plenty of 8/9 year olds who act like Mady. Kate can be a bitch at times, but I know plenty of women who act like her---even my mom!


People are always going to say things about Jon & Kate, even if they stop filming---I doubt the media will just leave them alone if they see Jon & Kate somewhere. But it isn't hurting the children, they are getting to experience things that they normally wouldn't have. Shoot, they are experiencing things I never did!

Kate's controlling, but I think she has to be to keep a somewhat orderly household. I'm sure that many of us would go to great lengths to be able to do the things that those kids are able to do. How is having them on tv different than having the Olson twins grow up on Full House during their lives?

If I had 8 kids, I would be totally insane, especially if 6 of them were the same age. Shoot, some days, I'm insane and I only have two! I have two great kids who are really good in school, don't get into trouble, teachers always tell me what "nice" kids they are (even my almost 13 year old boy!) but there are still days I want to kill them because they pick at each other constantly. I know it's sibling bickering and it's really not that serious but it drives me absolutely BONKERS! I think a lot of Kate's "controlling" is simply trying to keep some order in a household that could be total chaos. Trying to keep track of that many kids would be tough. It was tough keeping track of two at times, especially when trying to make dinner or take a shower and get ready to go somewhere! I can't imagine 8, I truly can't.

I will admit I've only watched the show a handful of times. I saw the Valentines show and the one where they picked up the puppies. I know everybody says Kate picks on John and maybe I haven't watched enough, but during the Valentine's show, I thought he was kind of a jerk. Oh yeah, I watched the one where she took the girls out and he took the boys out. He reminded me of my ex-husband in that one because his "boys day out" was all about him and hers was focused on the kids. I tend to find myself not liking John. I saw one episode where he took the kids for a walk in the woods. I think I would have been more creative with that one, but then again, I tended to be a creative parent. I got my kids to pick up their toys by making a game out of out. I probably would make a game out of a walk in the woods "Who can see the most birds?" or something like that.

I don't think I'd choose to put my family on TV to make ends meet, but I can't really say if I had that many kids to raise and put through college. I try not to think about how much money I would have if I didn't have kids!

Ok, my wife was watching this while I was working. Can people in their situation seriously sit there and complain about the notoriety that accompanies their show?

I can understand an athlete or even an actor that wants some privacy. It's not their fault that attaining the heights of their profession is equal to completely losing their right to privacy.

Jon and Kate bargained for this, though. They've apparently benefitted in a number of ways, whether it be financially, or in terms of opportunities for their children. The trade-off is that they lose their privacy when they go out in public. They might not like it, but if they hadn't considered that when they started the show, then they were seriously naive.

The Olson twins were actors, playing a part. Their personal lives didn't become fodder for the tabloids until they were teens and sought publicity themselves. I'd also like to point out that many child actors have NOT turned out well - there is a hidden cost to the publicity and attention.

OMG all of the previews for last night's show totally had me convinced Jon and Kate were separating. I'm sure that was their goal, but ahhhh! That's not the case at all, but darn sneaky advertisers!

lol Would you seperate if you had all those kids? I wouldn't - we'd get seperate bedroom first!

Love that show.

I'm watching the repeat of the season 4 finale - Jon mentioned his going out and being followed by people taking pictures! They also mentioned that there may not be a season 5? When did this show, and why haven't we talked about it yet?

This is the most recent ep.

I dunno, I remember that Kate said once that they'd keep doing the show as long as the kids were okay with it. Maybe they're getting annoyed with being filmed and want some time to think over whether they'll keep going?

Kate said she loved it and Jon said he hated it. Eventually, they may make it through season 5 but they'll have to make some serious decisions as to whether or not the show is healthy not only for their kids but their marriage. I think that situation with Jon going out while at his mom's house really weighed heavily on his opinion of doing the show.

Mady/Jon
 

I watch the show frequently and adore the family but I am very troubled by two things. First, I believe Jon and Kate are in denial about Mady. They consider her to be high-strung and dramatic. I can see that she has bi-polar tendencies. She needs to be evaluated and possibly started in therapy and on medication immediately. I watched the other day while she repeatedly kicked her little sister for coming into her room. I also watched her standing at the railing upstairs and had visions of her tossing over one of the "littles" when she is in one of her moods. She actually frightens me. Please, Gosselin's, get her into therapy before someone gets seriously hurt or before she deteriorates to the point where she cannot be helped as easily as she can now.

The other issue I would like to see addressed is the making of a montage of Kate (from all four seasons) interacting with Jon and the kids so she can sit down and watch how she relates to them. Kate is not only obsessive-compulsive but seriously bi-polar, like Mady. Both need immediate evaluation, therapy and medication. Kate doesn't seem to realize how her behavior towards Jon is affecting her kids and the choices they will make as adults.

Jon is a gem but he needs to develop a backbone, get his wife and child into therapy and refuse to be belittled and abused on national television. He is a good husband and father...many women would kill for a husband like him. He does so much for Kate and around the house and never receives his due. I am giving it to him now. Good work, Jon. Help your family.

Paula M.
Sigma Delta Tau
Patrae Multi Spes Una
One Hope of Many People

[quote=paulam;1795311]I watch the show frequently and adore the family but I am very troubled by two things. First, I believe Jon and Kate are in denial about Mady. They consider her to be high-strung and dramatic. I can see that she has bi-polar tendencies. She needs to be evaluated and possibly started in therapy and on medication immediately. I watched the other day while she repeatedly kicked her little sister for coming into her room. I also watched her standing at the railing upstairs and had visions of her tossing over one of the "littles" when she is in one of her moods. She actually frightens me. Please, Gosselin's, get her into therapy before someone gets seriously hurt or before she deteriorates to the point where she cannot be helped as easily as she can now.

The other issue I would like to see addressed is the making of a montage of Kate (from all four seasons) interacting with Jon and the kids so she can sit down and watch how she relates to them. Kate is not only obsessive-compulsive but seriously bi-polar, like Mady. Both need immediate evaluation, therapy and medication. Kate doesn't seem to realize how her behavior towards Jon is affecting her kids and the choices they will make as adults.

Jon is a gem but he needs to develop a backbone, get his wife and child into therapy and refuse to be belittled and abused on national television. He is a good husband and father...many women would kill for a husband like him. He does so much for Kate and around the house and never receives his due. I am giving it to him now. Good work, Jon. Help your family.

Wow! Really, a psych. eval. of ppl based on edited clips of a portion of their lives? Wow! If you were having "visions of her tossing one of the littles" maybe you need the eval and meds. :cool: Its carefully edited to give the perception that TLC wants us to see and sure, if that means the most entertaining bits are the ones where the self titled perfectionest and OCD mom yells at her hubby or her kids have a "meltdown" then that's what they play up.. It's still, loosely scripted, TV...

Mady is what, 7? She's a "normal" child that gets annoyed with her younger siblings. Diagnosing a major affective disorder from a reality tv show is probably not the most valid method.

I don't think Mady NEEDS therapy, however I can see how it might benefit her. She has trouble finding the appropriate way to vent her frustrations- so maybe therapy would help her find better ways to express her frustrations and feel empowered.

So I guess she would be fine if she didn't go, but the right therapist might do wonders for her.

Then again, I am pretty pro-therapy as a way for self improvement.

Mady
 

I hope everyone is right because the consequences of ignoring a developing pattern of destructive behavior can be dire. I spent many years dealing with a step-child with bi-polar disorder which both his parents refused to address. He is now an adult in continous therapy, thank goodness. I always worried about how he treated my children and slept with one eye and ear open all the years he lived with us. My evaluation of the Gosselin's situation is based on years of experience. I hope I am wrong but I can't ignore what I see. It could not hurt to have Mady evaluated and may do her a lot of good. Ignoring her "tantrums" will accomplish nothing.

Paula M.
Sigma Delta Tau
Patrae Multi Spes Una
One Hope of Many People

I don't think Mady is bi-polar. I do think she is very adversely effected by her whole situation with the little kids.

Siblings exhibit this type of behavior often - see KSUVIolets post above - however, as a parent, I think Mady is more than just a little frustrated. She melts down and cannot get control of herself.

I tend to agree that she doesn't require therapy but some helpful intervention that can teach her some techniques to control those emotions could help.

From what I see, Jon and Kate are not really providing that. And if they are, they could serve some other parents well by showing others how they deal with this situation. Heaven knows we get to see how they deal with plenty of others.

Mady has a hard time with calming herself down. She's a typical 7 year old. And again, the show could just be showing her meltdowns and not how she's calming herself down if and when she does it. Saying she's bi-polar is a bit of a stretch, I would say.

<--does not have an advanced psych degree

Thats all I was trying to say... And I do not have an advanced psych. it degree either but I did get my B.S. in psych. (and I have a close relative with this disorder), and bi-polar disorder does not typically present itself as early as in 7 in girls.