It's because so few of us do think any of those women are anything other than completely attractive that makes the campaign amusing to me.

They are obviously beautiful. So Real Beauty is obvious beauty.

I didn't want to belabor this point this much really. It was just an off the cuff remark about advertising.

Unfortunately, today that is considered hazing and is strictly prohibited.

That is not hazing if sisters decide TOGETHER to work out, and do it for their well-being. It's when a woman tells another woman in her sorority that she is too fat to recruit and to stay away from the house during recruitment, or to stay away from a mixer, or to not go to formal, that would be a serious issue. My sisters and I went on numerous occasions to the gym. What we didn't do, however, was tell other sisters not to come to recruitment because they had packed on a few pounds. That is what we were talking about here.

Obviously beautiful? Do these women look like the ones you usually see in advertisements? They don't look like the ones I normally see in magazines or on television every night. The point is that they ARE still beautiful, regardless of what popular culture says.

Medically, I think one or two of them might qualify...but medically, you can only be 110 and 5'2'' and +10 lbs for ever inch to not be "overweight".

Unfortunately? Seriously???

I don't get the funnies either.

And no, they don't look like the girls I see when I open my Cosmo. Not at all.

The ones I usually see in advertisements look like 13 year old Latvian orphans who haven't eaten in a month. They're pretty gross looking, if you ask me.

They sure are, and so would a house full of super model-esque women, who all looked the same during recruitment. That is just too Stepford Wives for me. But hey, that's just me. ;)

My University had a campus wide wellness program where individuals and organizations (usually all of the greek ones) would compete for awards. You would earn points for doing things like donating blood, going to certain speakers, going to church/synagoge/temple, and for working out at the student health center. We had chapter-wide points goals that we had to meet every quarter-so in a way we did require members to work out in some way- even if it was just going bowling or ice skating.

That's a really good idea. :)

About the Dove thing:

Yes, I agree with AGDSquirrelGirl that companies are still in the business to make money so they can't depart from what's expected too much.

I'd be completely behind the campaign as a progressive idea had they in a low key way started to use these women in campaigns. The departure from Cosmo and typical advertisement IS commendable.

The amusing/absurd part to me is that they've wrapped themselves in a rhetoric of liberation that doesn't really match the scale of what they've done or even what some of their product line is all about.

But again, I'm not anti-Dove particularly. I don't consider this campaign to be worse than traditional campaigns using the clinically underweight. I just question how much it's really progressive considering that a company who sells cellulite diminishing lotion can't really afford for you to believe that you don't need it.

The article with the stats was Recruitment Redefined and Redesigned by Christine Barnacki of Chi Omega for the NPC.

I don't think they're point is that we're all absolute models of perfection at all times. I think it is much more of a "love your body" message. I strongly believe that it should be OK for women to be confident in themselves. I DON'T believe that that attitude and wearing make up or using self tanner or cellulite lotion are mutually exclusive. Men work out, tan, get hair plugs, and buy red cars that make lots of noise because it boosts their ego. Women wear make up and sexy or flattering clothes for the same reason. The problem is that today when I babysit a twelve year old girl, she is giving me a constant barrage of questions about dieting, getting skinny, make up, what boys like, how to make her boobs look bigger...etc. And it's not so she can boost her ego, or because she wants to be nice healthy. It's so that really cute guy in homeroom will like her better than her friend. She's twelve. That's too early. She will probably be stuck in this rut for years. She'll be miserable, because she will base her self worth on the pictures in magazines, skinny models, and tiny teen stars. Beauty is health and confidence. To me that is their message. No one is perfect. Personalities and minds can always use a tune up. So can a body. Humans aren't plastic...we change. But one person's beauty doesn't apply to the next. That's what I get out of their campaign...beauty is health and confidence.

They're certainly making that message a critical part of their campaign more than, what was it 33Girl said, the Latvian waifs?

And I think a lot of people are more favorably disposed to their products because of it.

In the context of this thread, what was the point again?

One of the lines from the Alpha Gamma Delta Purpose is:

So, any chapter that was completely living up to our Purpose would place some sort of priority on health and fitness, just as our Founders intended.

(Note - this doesn't mean that our Founders would have advocated "hiding the fat chicks," just that they felt we should aim to take care of our bodies.) :)

Here you are, it's the eleventh post down:

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...=88145&page=23

A healthy body and healthy mind are equally important. If you lose the first, well...the second doesn't do you much good, does it?

On the other hand, not all "fat chicks" are unhealthy. Some people are just built bigger, just as some are just built smaller. An obese person isn't healthy. But the size 10 or 12 girl who works out for 30 minutes a day three times a week, tries to drink water, and eat as well as a college student can is healthier than the skinny chick who won't eat and exercises too much.

Yes, unfortunately. But not unfortunately in the sense that I advocate forced calisthenics for new members or actives, or something like that. I don't necessarily see anything wrong with making "work-out hours" just like many groups have study hours.

It'll never happen, of course, but it's not neccesarily a sin.

Help me out here; I still don't see the link to recruitment or how my feeling about Dove's ad figures in. I know I didn't bring it up.

ETA: was I supposed to look at KDs involvement with the Real Beauty campaign as having implications for improving situations in recruitment where people rely on image to make judgments?

Ok do you see where KD begins talking about it? It started there. Read it. Then go to the next one. Read it. Then repeat until you get it.

Would this include Nerds?:confused:

Probably.

I like "nerds". They can actually hold an intelligent conversation...and most of them are nice enough to adjust the level of conversation for the person they're talking to:D

I think health is part of a lot of groups' values, and fitness in this regard could totally be part of a group's programming.

But, as you note, it would seem REALLY wrong to evaluate potential or current members based on weight to see if they were living up to that part of purpose and exclude those who seemed to weigh too much.

Tom, I'm not sure how this factors into the equation, but yes, NERDS ROCK. Plus, if you want to be superficial, they keep the chapter's GPA up, which makes them look "good." buahaha

So, "some others" do not?

Well Jugdish?

I now name this Barbieism thread!;)

O, Tom. I am not sure what you are saying here, but I am telling ya right here that I was kidding around. ;) And, yes, "some others" don't make the organization look good, because they have skewed the meaning of the creed and history to their own liking, primarily to get better looking pledges.

Tried it. No luck. It seems strictly a rambling aside to me.

From it, I apparently can draw the following conclusions:

Most people don't look like fashion models.
Fashion models may or may not be beautiful depending on your feelings about Latvian orphans.
People who don't look like fashion models can be beautiful.
People who don't look like fashion models but are still beautiful are progressive when they sell us cellulite cream.

Am I also supposed to conclude that now image doesn't matter in recruitment?

KathyKD, will you tell me more explicitly what I didn't get?
(I know it's my fault for leading us off course, but now I can't see my way back.)

AlphaGam, I have explained on numerous occasions what I was talking about and how it related to this thread. I am sorry if you don't understand. I don't see another way of explaining it to you. We just don't agree--let's leave it at that. :)

You have your own sort of logic that has nothing to do with the fact that 2+2=4 and the earth goes around the sun, don't you?

No, not really--my logic is not that far off, since several people have been able to understand it. And there is no need to personally attack my logic, thanks. :)

The weird part is I think I agree with you about standards of beauty and that things don't have to be cookie-cutter to be beautiful. I don't even think cookie-cutter is desirable in recruitment.

But that doesn't really help an individual or a group who is classified rightly or wrongly as "not-beautiful" at an image based recruitment.

ETA: unless you can take me back through it, seriously. I'm not making fun.

oh my gosh die thread DIE

Just for the sheer fun of it--
Live, thread, live!

Just sad, just sad for the hipocrates who posts on this!:eek:

Tom, care to be specific regarding to whom you are referring? I don't understand what you are attempting to convey.

You don't have to work out. Just get your body fat tested, then look up optimum body fat percentage, compare, and then move more and eat less until you get to that range.

Easy:)

Which side are hypocrites?

That's what I don't really understand. :confused:

First: Hold an emergency meeting with the chapter to discuss low return rates and what we, together, can do to improve those rates.

Second: Contact National Headquarters to see if they could have a Chapter Development Consultant come help with recruitment and attend recruitment itself.

Third: Meet with the other chapters of Panhellenic Council and discuss the issue of image "problems," and ask them to be supportive.

Overcoming a negative stereotype is a serious issue, but alienating your fellow group members to do so defeats the purpose of sisterhood and brotherhood. :)

I totally agree with this part, but I think what you may not realize is that every chapter we'd be talking about needing to worry about image is likely already doing those three things.

Officially, first round a lot of places is all about the benefits of going Greek generally. Within the official panhellenic circle, everyone wants to see each group take quota. But that doesn't have any effect about what people hear at parties or what fraternity boys or sorority girls say when telling their little biological sisters which groups they should try to join which then gets repeated to all her friends. We'd love for them to simply say "join the group that makes you happy" and leave it at that, but they don't always.

And you could see Tippiechicks post about chapter consultants and advice from nations for more about that.

As far as the talking as a chapter and resolving as a chapter to make certain efforts, I think it varies in it's implementation. I think the officers always put out the official word, but that at the big chapters, you may sometime run into people who disagree with the official word and kind of have their own recruitment plans.

I don't mean this in a condescending way at all (although I've been schooled in PM about disclaimers like that): but it's honestly sweet to me how idealistic you are. I'd really prefer to live in the world of your Greek Life.

SECDomination: I think I'm somewhat on the same page with you about the realities of image in recruitment. I don't think you ever insult your current members, but you have to think about marketing the chapter's strengths. You know those guys are good brothers and they know you value them. If they get asked to move tables or do food, they may not see it as a big insult. They probably don't feel as confident about chatting up the rushees as the guys you want to see do it anyway. But at the point you've got a guy that you would tell to stay home or really believe you'd be better off if he stayed home, it's a whole different issue.