Imagine an undergraduate chapter for post-college women. That's basically a GAP chapter. These chapters are highly structured, just like undergrad chapters. And, I said, I know there are opportunities for involvement after graduation! For heaven's sake, I doubt any NPC's national president is an undergrad!! I know it's for life. But, we run things differently. That's all I'm sayin'.

I swear y'all aren't reading what I say: "It seems like, for the most part, IFC/NPC groups offer lifelong networking and fellowship opportunities with a less formal structure than orgs like Theta Nu Xi."

I'm sorry, I guess I was just looking for more specific examples. No big deal though. :)

It sounds like a GAP chapter is the same as an NPC alum group minus the fact that GAP chapter still recruits members whereas an NPC group is not recruiting new graduate members (unless they have AI's in the group). This may be simplifying things a bit though.

Well our alumni groups are nothing like the chapters she's talking about. Ours are mainly guys who have meetings every now and then, just to throw around ideas for how they can help the undergrad chapter. They generally are just groups of professional fraternity brothers who use the "alumni group" to stay connected and set up tee times.

Perhaps...I think a full explanation would require me to describe the way our undergrad and GAP chapters function, what their standards are, etc. That's a WHOLE lotta typing!! Ok, here's a quick explanation - if you have an NPC alum group that mirrors the activities of an undergraduate chapter (as in, you really couldn't tell the difference between the two except that one doesn't do activities on a college campus), that's a fair comparison. I'm sure they're out there, but I'm not personally familiar with them.

Ok, so they are a little bit more different than I thought...... :)
But that's not a bad thing, that's what makes each group different!

So... it's kinda more like a rotary or kiwanis (sp?) type thing that you can join while in college, rather than an actual college fraternity/sorority ?

The Knights of Columbus have chapters affiliated with college chapels, some of which are treated like traditional fraternities rather than old-guy councils. Is it comprable to that?

It is more comparable to the way the NPHC chapters work. Their alums are not just there to support the actives or to meet once a month for lunch (OVER SIMPLIFYING) but have chapter meetings, do service projects, etc. It's like being active but after school.

It's not brain surgery people...

I quoted it right in my first post, but am sorry that I did not in my second. That being said, I don't really see a difference between "not at all interested" and "don't hold any interest for me at all", but maybe that's just me.

I'm not trying to make you a villian. But your posted about knowing Southern, beauty-pagenat type PNMs and then immediately said "they want things in a sorority that don't hold any interest for me at all". I put words in your mouth I guess, and I am sorry for that. But it's not that big of a strech to see why I thought you were trying to cover up an insult.

I know MCGLOs sometimes feel the NPC/NIC/IFC groups think they aren't "real" or what not, but I get a feeling from some of you all that you think you are so much better than us because you don't care about social aspects and are "for life". As a very active alumna of my organization, and after attending our recent Convention with hundreds of others just like me, we get a little sick of the stereotype.

Ahh... I see. I don't think you'll find me to be the type of person to put down another org. There's no need to weaken another organization in an attempt to build up mine. That's as good as weakening the entire Greek system which hurts me as much as you.

I do see a difference in the way our respective groups treat the idea of lifetime membership and I prefer the way we do it. But, you prefer the way you do it, too! That's why we're not of the same type of org.

While it may be changing these days, I don't believe the majority of people join (have joined?) NPC sororities because of the opportunity of lifetime activity...lifetime membership, yes...but not activity. I'm seeing a new breed of NPC woman who really wants to know how she can support her organization for a lifetime. AI is becoming more visible as well. All of this is a testament to women like you who stress the importance of pitching in after graduation.

ETA: On the concern that I think I'm better than you or that my organization is better, I think it's better for me because it offers me things that your sorority can't offer me. That's the beauty of a diverse Greek community. Wouldn't you say the same for yourself? That your org gives you things Theta Nu Xi certainly can't because of the type of organization it is?

I was thinking back on my post in another thread about fraternity men not being interested in community service/philanthropy, but that everything to do with the individual and not the fraternity as a whole. I am disheartened when I see people who only care about themselves and they just use their organizations to help themselves rather than using the tools of the org to help others as well. That's why I think philanthropies are so important. They provide a means to help people who can't help themselves. And NPC orgs are in a position to really make an impact, so I know that the recipients of donations would suffer if not for y'all. What I take away from learning about the different philanthropies of NPC orgs is a sense of thousands and thousands of women saying, "We dedicate this money to help someone other than ourselves."

haysus christo, after 20 plus pages have we come to a consensus?

Yea, I agree with Starang, lol, what a thread.

I personally come from a well-to-do background from the Philadelphia area and am Caucasian. I'm like the classic definition of a WASP. :D

However, I chose not to join a "white" fraternity because of how I was introduced to them. As a freshman, my roommates were rushing those organizations. All they did was party and drink. Nowhere did I see the committment to service and dedication to the ideals of their organizations which bothered me greatly.

I chose to join my organization, an Asian-Interest Cultural Fraternity, because it was created to educate other about culture and the importance of it as well as be a haven for Asian/Asian American men during college and beyond.

I totally agree with those people who say that NPC/NIC orgs are great orgs. I have a bunch of friends who are incredibly involved in the success and development of their organization. However, the majority of the members, in the fraternities at least, don't do the service and only do the partying. Are all organizations like this at every school? Hell no.

NIC/NPC organizations have very similar values save the specific cultural aspects that BGLOs, LGLOs, AGLOs, MCGLOs have. The reality is that there are more white people in this country. White people are at the top of the racial food chain. White people don't have to worry about racial profiling. White people aren't always expected to "speak for the race". These two factors (sheer numbers and the need for a haven for a specific community) is why I feel that a higher percentage of people in BGLOs, LGLOs, AGLOs, MCGLOs are committed to the organizational ideals in an active sense.

I really do not want people to think I have anything against NIC/NPC organizations. I feel the missions are amazing and I concur with all of them because they are very similar to non WGLO organizations. However, on my campus, many many many people in those organizations are not in it for the service or betterment of the community, but are in it for partying, which is against my values.

Are there people in BGLOs, LGLOs, AGLOs, MCGLOs in it just for the partying? Yes, of course, but I'd argue that they are a much smaller percentage (unfortunately) than in NIC/NPC organizations.

What matters to me is committment to the pillars/tenets of your organization on a consistent basis, even after graduation regardless of what "group" their organization serves. If you follow the mission set out by your Founders, then you will promote the ideals of your organization until the day you die.

there will never be a consensus because some people will never understand why people chose to do something different instead of joining their organization or an organization similar to it.

it never ceases to amaze me how many other african americans feel the need to quiz me about my decision to join a multicultural sorority instead of an NPHC organization. it's not that i don't respect those organizations - because i do - but i didn't see where i fit into them, plain and simple. nothing is wrong with that, and i'm sure those sororities are like mine in the fact that they don't want someone trying to be a member because they "think they should." i'm sorry but the NPC organizations on my campus never appealed to me, the three main reasons being the fact that non-freshman interest were not given the same fair shake (i never wanted to join an organization my freshman year, i wanted to look around at all of the groups my freshman year so i could choose the one that was doing something i wanted to be a part of) and for the fact that they came across as party groups much more than any of the cultural based groups on my campus.

either way, the fact is that multicultural groups exist because the NPC, IFC, and NPHC didn't have something we wanted - mainly the fact that we wanted to use our organization to promote cultural awareness and to work inside the community to increase understanding and education of multiple cultures. those are not things that the average group in NPC, IFC, and NPHC do, period. not to say that some of those chapters aren't diverse or have programming occasionally, but they are the exception at this point, not the norm.

as far as being accepted as a minority in an NPC organization, i wasn't worried about that at michigan, there were quite a few minorities that were members of various organizations. my bigger problem were the news articles and information i researched (and found on greek chat) about some of the southern chapters that still have never knowingly accepted a minority. i could NOT be a part of an organization that has that type of history period. i udnerstand that historically white is not something that some people of NPC like to hear and that people definately don't want to hear it called a white sorority, but the fact is that until the ENTIRE organization presents an open and diverse front, people will continue to see them as white organizations. personally, i've seen both and know that yes, you are as diverse as some multicultural sorority chapters at some northern schools, but i also have southern roots and have seen that end of it too. i think as long as those regional differences exist, people will never see NPC organizations as openly multicultural.

When I mentioned one of my reasons for not going NPC being that chapter traditions differ within the same organization, I would say this is the negative side. In my observations, most MCGLOs encourage uniformity and organizational "pride" that I don't see in NPCs. (I see more freedom for individual chapter identities within NPCs which is what A LOT of women enjoy.) When you join a chapter of TNX, you are just joining an arm of the org, not a distinct entity. I also know that, at least within my own org, people who join might not necessarily get along with their chapter sisters (in a natural sense), but they join because they are joining Theta Nu Xi and that overshadows the immediate circumstance. And, then of course once they have entered into the bond, their personal feelings for the other women make way for respect and a drive to see the organization succeed. On top of that, when we look at aspirants, we're focusing on their qualifications more than their personality (although personality matters to an extent).

Funny how you didn't notice that I stopped referencing your post after the bolded pink lettering. I said the remainder of the THREAD, not the post. Thank you for taking my post extremely personally.

Anytime.
I can't find a pilot article about it, but we won the 2006 Volunteer Hampton Roads "Volunteer Organization of the Year" award. I don't even know if it was in the paper, but chan. 3 news came to the house and did something for it. You can also see it here (http://www.volunteerhr.org/AboutUs/i...out/hrvaa.html - 11th picture down) Clearly we, and all other IFC, excuse me, white fraternities, don't give a sh*t about anything but drinking. (A lot of my brothers are gonna be pissed when the find out they're white.)

I'm wondering if this is the case: Do you think some cultures are more open to forgiving than others? I play tennis at a club that I'm PRETTY SURE had a white-only policy. Today, the club has many minority members and they don't seem to care that such a policy might have existed. It's definitely not reflective of the City of Toronto, but it's not as "white" as outsiders make it out to be.

If he'd been introduced to an NIC/IFC fraternity without the drinking, he probably would have liked it, but during rush all he saw was the partying.

People need to stop getting their panties in a twist about one person giving their experience.

To be clear, I never said we don't drink. Had I, it would have been a rather severe lie. Perhaps the people sharing "their experience" had a preordained view of the groups they so quickly found to be not for them and thus never really looked into the people they would be insulting for the next few years.

Also, why is it that you can be so offended by people making "generalizations" that they never actually made, but when I respond to a clear generalization about me and my brothers, I'm "getting my panties in a bunch?" Hipocracy is, in this case, an understatement.

Yeah yeah just turn the attack around on me.

It happens a lot on GC and you're by no means the first. You posting that your brothers did X Y and Z and that they're by no means white doesn't change the fact that what he saw was the partying. You feel the need to defend yourself when there really isn't one.

He posted a very good story about why he joined the fraternity he did. Why can't people accept that and move forward?

You know, you're right. We all should just allow someone to respond without criticism to doubt about their organization with a story about how fraternities are immoral because the RUSHEES he knew did not demonstrate the ideals of the fraternities they DID NOT belong to because the underlying insult is concurrent with yours. I showed evidence of his story not applying and you jumped on my ass. Are you capable of not following your blatent "do as I say, not as I do" mentality?

I'm kind of confused about what you're asking here ... can you clarify this (about the forgiveness thing)?

He never called anyone immoral. You're reading things into it that weren't there.

I don't like that people can't say "this wasn't for me" anymore with out people being offended. I'm sure your fraternity does tons of philanthropy and isn't all white. That doesn't change his story at all.

To me, this statement sums up this whole thread. People are going to join groups, either MCGLO, IFC, NPC, NPHC,etc., that they feel comfortable in. Some people like being around people like themselves (not in a "I'm a card carrying KKK" way) and some people like meeting and being around people of various cultures and diverse backgrounds.

It all boils down to joining a group that you want/wish to belong to and you enjoy and other people respecting/accepting your wish. You may not agree or understand that someone wants to be in a MCGLO, but you respect their decision - just as you want them to respect you.

Co-sign the above!

Sealawering does not remove one from criticism. "I don't have any legitimate reason for saying this, but I view "white" fraternities as immoral and hypocritical. Oh, and I base this belief of the experiences shared with me by RUSHEES of some fraternities. I never actually spoke to any brothers because they're all immoral hypocrites. But hey, I can say all this, I'm a rich white kid from philly."

Remember logic equations? If not P then not Q. If not Q then not R. Therefore if not P then not R. If it's against someone's values and values are the same as morals then the same thing is considered immoral by said person.

I don't care what people do with their time any money. I don't care who other people's friends are. I do care, however, when someone tries to explain their own actions by insulting mine.

I really don't see how you read his statement and get that. I mean, he just plain and simple never said it. In his personal experience at his school at rush, he wasn't impressed with what he saw from IFC groups, although he doesn't have any problem with the people in those chapters and realizes that the groups are different at other chapters and on a national level. He found something else that worked for him and he chose that path. How can you possibly be offended by that? :confused:

lol you just took what he said and ran 3 miles further with it. If you're going to get this upset everytime someone says something about IFC/NIC fraternities.. you're going to have a rough time on GC

/and maybe an ulcer
//can't spell anuerism...

ETA: ok, I can spell it now... but i'm not changing it because it ruins the funny

a-n-e-u-r-i-sm

Hence my twisted panties comment. I wouldn't be upset if someone, not a member of my chapter, said they didn't feel like my chapter was right for them.
They might only see the parties because they live by where the buses pick us up, or they might not see the service projects because they're not around campus much.
It doesn't make my chapter any less because of it.

Brobuzzz-

Not sure if you are saying that my statement is insulting to you or if you think I was backing up someone else who was insulting you.

My statement was meant to take an issue that is getting very divisive (yeah, I probably spelled it wrong) on here and trying to state the plain and simple. One thing that attracted me to Sigma Chi was its creed. My favorite part of the creed says: Friendships among brothers of different temperments and talents is superior to friendships among brothers of the same temperments and talents. Again, people should join groups that they are comfortable with and other people should accept their decision.

Edited: Realized that I misidentified "The Spirit of Sigma Chi" as "The Sigma Chi Creed".

The Spirit of Sigma Chi

Friendship among members, sharing a common belief in an ideal,...

and possessing different temperaments, talents, and convictions,...

is superior to friendship among members having the same temperaments, talents, and convicitons, and that...

Genuine friendship can be maintained without surrendering the principle of individuality or
sacrificing one's personal judgement.

I think a few people here need to take a hockey puck sized chill pill and re-read what was actually said.

Brobuzzz - I'm not sure how you think you're being insulted or attacked. If Drolefille was attacking you, you'd know it, trust me.

you'd be surprised with some of the people on this site.

What I'm asking is whether some cultures are more likely to forgive and forget, therefore more likely to join organizations that once prohibited them from doing so. I'm just asking because many Asians seem to join country and city clubs around here, even though most may have had white-only clauses in the past.

I don't think it is forgiveness as much as the desire to be in a exclusive group. It takes very strong loyalty to not fall into the "if you can't beat them,join them" situation. I think that is just part of human desire to be accepted. Its the same as people who deny their friends to get into a top tier fraternity, abandon their beliefs about social injustice to join the social elite, etc...

”I was introduced to fraternities by rushees.” Nowhere does it say anything about rushing or even speaking to brothers of said fraternities. “The rushees did not uphold the ideals of the fraternity (hypocritical).”
”I am not Asian, but I want to be part of an organization that is dedicated to the advancement of Asians.” This I don’t get, it seems like a rather socialistic view, but hey, whatever floats your boat. Question, if you're group is a haven for asians from white people, and you're white, wouldn't you be violating the very pricipales of your group?
”Most of the members I don’t chill with don’t truly believe in the standards of their fraternity. Most of the members of the fraternity I never pursued do nothing for the fraternity.” First and last sentences, sealawering, that is, attempting to insult someone or their views while at the same time removing all liability for having said what you said. For example, “No offence, but you’re an ass.”
Non-IFC/NPC groups are inferior to specialized, racial ones because they promote the advancemt of all people and all cultures, not just one single culture or group. These organizations are necessary because non-white people should have the choice of not associating with white people, (just like the real world?).
Lots of people in IFC fraternities do not believe in what they say they do and just like to drink. In my opinion, this makes them immoral. (the drinking or the supposed hypocrisy?) Plus more sealawering crap.
My group is guilty of the same things I accuse others of, but there’s fewer of us, so it’s cool.
What really matters to me can be found in IFC fraternities, but I still don’t like them.

I want to learn to read things into statements that aren't there. Do you have a newsletter? Or a class?

Seriously.

As one TINY example: Amazing! For example I read this as: While some non-NPC/IFC groups exist only to party, I believe that that percentage is much smaller than the number of IFC/NPC groups that exist only to party. This is unfortunate.

Will you agree that there are more IFC/NPC groups than Non-IFC/NPC groups like the ones being discussed here?

Yes, and I see where you're going, note the word "percentage"