Interesting you say that... I just see it as a the genetic response to a harsh environmental condition... All albinos do not pass on their trait to their children unless it is homozygous recessive--co-dominant... Many albinos are NOT that--most are compound heterozygotes. Only mice, rats, flies can be MADE to be full homozygous recessive--co-dominant true albinos at this time. It is RARE to find a human being like that, and then you have to wonder about inbreeding. There is only ONE I have seen with red-eyes...

Rarity of the condition does not mean it does not exist.

Now if you're talking about albinism in the way that Iota is talking about, that's a different story. But you aren't. There are a few ways to explain how humans evolved to the form that we are and how we began to categorize ourselves without discussing genetics. That's a big part of the study of racial and ethnic inequality, for instance. But beyond the foundation of how we got here, there's an analysis of how we perceive these differences and the categorizations and value-ridden rankings that were humanly derived from them. The resulting categories and ranks (i.e. prejudices) of good vs bad and lightskin vs darkskin is what this thread's about. :)

Wait... If you do a sequence search from one population vs. another--say Nordic featured Caucasians and Africans from Sub-Sahara, you will find that the African genes are diverse in sequence from Nordic featured Caucasians... And when you compare the African albinos to Nordic featured Caucasians to the main allele, you do find similarities in the actual code...

These are not the same things that make an "African featured" dark-skinned or Asian dark-skinned person... What THE only change is the mutations seen in the albinos are JUST the same or similar as the sequence in Caucasians--NOT ALL--but quite a few populations.

There may be polymorphic markers that different or single nucleotide polymorphisms or translation state arrayed microRNAs--however, the TYR gene spelling is remarkably similar to African type Albinos... Specifically in West African in descent--from Nigeria across to Tanzania give or take a few countries.

That's true. I don't know if I've ever seen a red eyed albino.

We cannot discuss the high-level politics or the ramifications of our history until we are clear of the biological players and how come we developed--from a ecological standpoint at jump...

There was a reason why Africans--dark skinned, Asians--both dark and light skinned, and Caucasians in Europe appear the way they appear in human biological evolution.

Why did humans migrate so far from their food to look so differently? Then develop a how inaccurate ideology based on colorisms? What would be the biological basis for that other than hatred or fear?

Since we are in the AKA Ave on this subject...

Your last post about migration is a basic understanding that is also applied when discussing the origins of cultures, ethnicities, etc. but where does that get us in reference to the discussion of intragroup prejudices? Just trying to understand where you're going with this.

~~~~~~~~~~~

I was talking to my hairdresser about a rollerset that Alicia Keyes had on a magazine cover. Her hair looked very nice and I was considering getting my rollerset looser like hers. My hairdresser said "oh yeah...and Alicia got that reeeeeal NICE hair texture." I'm glad she couldn't see my expression. I mean, there is HEALTHY hair. There's SHINY hair. There's a pretty hair color. But I've never associated "good" with finely textured hair. To me what she was saying was the same as the "good hair" thing--someone let me know if they would've interpreted that differently. Did she possibly mean the hair texture is easily managed?

I remember yeeears ago when one of my acquaintances told me "you got pretty lightskin...too bad your hair is all thick and kinky...you don't have good hurr." I was like ":eek: And God let me roam the earth still?! :eek:"

:p

How about I used to hear (still a little today) "oooh you got some pretty hair to be darkskinned." Uuuuuuuuuum, so what is that supposed to mean??? Is my hair supposed to be bad because I'm dark; I'm not suppose to take care of my hair? Geeeeeesh!

Darker blacks "don't have enough white in them" to have anything other than Brillo pad hair. :rolleyes:

Kenya Moore is a beautiful woman but I remember when she first came out and was celebrated for being chocolate and "having hair."

[QUOTE=DSTCHAOS;1628358 Or someone else can enlighten us as to what your point is beyond the fact that these different shades of humanity came from....somewhere...and caused...noticeable differences that were responded to in particular ways. :) Your last post about migration is a basic understanding that is also applied when discussing the origins of cultures, ethnicities, etc. but where does that get us in reference to the discussion of intragroup prejudices? Just trying to understand where you're going with this.[/QUOTE]



1) Where do you think INTRA-racial prejudice started? What was the basis for its development, maintenance and institutionalized rationalization?

2) Do you think Light-complexion Pale Caucasians made Dark-skinned Africans? And when they did, did they choose to immediately hate darker hued humans to cause so much ignorance, racial hatred and institutionalization based on skin coloration? It just did not "magically" appear on the planet consecutive in all populations without electrical or transmission wiring... And given that the whole of humanity, genetically started in Africa?

3) The reality is, we need to know the biological basis of what humans developed cultural rationalizations. For example, how were Zombies made? It was recently determined how that process occurred and why it developed into the lore it has become. There is also the biological reasons for the effects at the Oracle at Delphi, The Holies of the Holies, the 10th Plague and the Balm of Gilead.

4) All scientific factors play a role in human development, evolution, behavior, agriculture, disease and astrological/meteorological phenomena. We have no discussion if we remain surface values, personal assaults and feelings to really educate people and possibly put an end to this ignorance.

And hey, don't believe what I say, do your own research and prove me wrong... I continually study that literature because it is a hobby of mine...

Who cares if someone is light/dark, polka-dotted or striped? The reality is a whole slew of people PERCEIVE discrepancies, distinctions and discriminations founded by SOMEBODY'S INANE EPISTEMOLOGY!

What I want to know is first, where did it come from, why does it exist and how it evolved to become that way?
I am here to help free people's minds...

LMAO!! Dang, why does it have to be a brillo pad though...lol:D.

I loathe the comparison of "good hair vs bad hair". As if a difference in skin tone didn't cause enough drama, we have to be judgemental about our beautiful hair too :( As long as you're blessed to have hair on your head it's good IMO.

http://www.cafepress.com/content/global/img/spacer.gif

yup I used to get that when I was younger. I also used to get "your hair is so long to be dark skinned" or the ever popular "you are so pretty to be dark skinned."

How about this, I once had a guy tell me that I was really pretty but that he didn't date dark skinned girls and he was dark. I guess he was afraid of ending up with dark skinned kids.:eek:

Actually linking what's bad and good to colors and skin tones is only natural for some because society created such a consciousness as a result of prejudice based on a fear of those (Black/African) who looked different from Europeans.

Take children for example, when they are very young, they will play with anyone, no matter what color they are. It's only when they start to pick up the attitudes and feelings of those around them and the greater society, that they start to associate colors/skin tones and other physical characteristics of people as good or bad. This is not an innate thing, this is a learned thing. As for the dark vs. light, bad vs. good, that exists among other ethnicities like Latinos and Asians, they have also been impacted greatly by this societal consciousness, which has become a world consciousness. This is the same consciousness "color consciousness" that has put European ideals of beauty on a pedestal for all other races to admire and compare themselves to. This is the tragedy.

The nerve of some people! When my hair was long people used to assume FIRST that it wasn't mine. I cut my hair in a short layered bob a couple of months ago but I am going to grow it back out because I miss my "bounce" and I found a good and affordable beautician. Now people want to ask me is my hair a wig...I mean dude...come on.....lol. Why can't it just be pretty because it's pretty...not pretty to be dark skinned.

Girl, I would have asked that man has he looked in the mirror lately or told him I didn't date dark skinned men either...just to see what he would say...lol. Peaple are really a trip!

Girl, that happened when I was in my teens and I was so used to being discriminated against (yes, by Black people both light and dark) that it didn't bother me anymore. For one thing, I knew that I was fine ;) and my family and others always told me how beautiful I was but I admit that I did wrestle with self-esteem as a younger child...kids are cruel ya know. I was also always taught to be proud of being Black, we all were in my family and I have family members of all different shades. That is the only way this kind of thing will stop. We have to teach our children that "Black is Beautiful" no matter what shade it comes in, no matter what texture of hair and you have to teach your kids to be proud of their African American and African heritage while they're young. Knowledge of self can really make the difference and until we get that thru our heads, there will be more of the same.

Well, in that case, there are plenty of extreeeeeeeeemely light and light featured blacks who aren't albino. Moreover, many of these people also have fine features (which albinos don't automatically have nor do extreeeemely light blacks, of course) so they could pass for white. So the same theory of "light bright damn near white" applies without an extensive analysis of albinism. :)

Oh and I was interested by the photos on this website that I'm sure you're already familiar with: http://www.albinism.org/

I agree.

Kids pick that nonsense up from adults and not always their parents, as well as from popular images. My first overt exposure to it was from my elementary school classmates who had gotten it from the adults in their lives. I remember when I was little I wrote a short story about a "pretty lightskinned girl with long hair and an ugly darkskinned girl with very short hair" (:eek::rolleyes::mad:). I had the nerve to read that story to my best friend at the time who was dark skinned with short hair. She thought I made the story about the two of us. She said "so...you're saying I'm ugly?" and she started crying and was depressed the rest of the day. I was so ashamed and my parents definitely gave me a TALKING TO about that. I got in trouble and I should've. That nonsense was fed to me and my parents were trying to dispose of it before it was too late.

It's good to have that support group and that support group's worth is based on the fact that albinism is a condition that spans across race, ethnicity, and culture.

Bald head? Woohoo!!!! :p

When we discuss issues of hair as linked to color, it's usually women discussing it. I have found that men also get into the "good hair" thing. I recall one dude who definitely played up his curly hair and another dude who had been told all of his adulthood that he was "good for breeding" because of his straight hair and light grey eyes.

What's up with wave caps, btw? LOL.

I think more women discuss it because men discuss it, as in "good hair" is what they prefer their women to have. Men are very into the whole "good" hair vs. "bad" hair thing but not for themselves, for women. No one knows more about this than our "happy to be nappy" sistas who went from permed hair to natural and watched many of the men that used to try and holla before, suddenly stop.

I used to wear my hair natural and I got compliments from women all the time who would say, "I wish I could do that" and when I asked them why they felt they couldn't, they would say it was because the men in their lives wouldn't like it or because they didn't think that men would like it.

Yes, humans have almost always sought to distinguish and categorize ourselves. One of the earliest distinctions being gender. We take from these differences a need to place different values, roles, and treatments, for instance. Folks like Charles Tilly (Categorical Inequality) feel like this is the basis for all inequalities.

It is about like-mindedness but usually it is initially about the observable differences between people and then the differences in "mind" come later to justify why "they are so different and we are so better."

And stuff like "you think you're better because you're light" is a self-fulfilling prophecy. The person is obviously light so the difference in "mind" is assumed even if it isn't true. But if that light person is fed enough bullcrap about being better than and being treated like they are "different," they may eventually be more conscious of that.

Separating doesn't have to be negative though. We are separated by our org being historically African American and NPHC but we don't have bad feelings toward non-NPHC orgs or think bad of them.

Also what I meant in my previous post when I said that for some linking color to bad/good is natural, I meant that not everyone learns this consciousness even though they become aware that it exists. Some of us are fortunate enough when we are young to have parents who talk to us and constantly reinforce the idea that we are beautiful and that all skin tones are beautiful.

I don't think there's anything wrong with wave caps or using gels and creams to enhance your waves or curls. Waves and Curls are pretty (not that other textures aren't) and if you have them and want to enhance them, I see nothing wrong with it as long as you don't get caught up in curly/wavy hair being the only textures that are beautiful. My mom used to always say that "good" hair is healthy, maintained hair.

@Iota and rhoyaltempest

I think that this point about language is important. "Good hair," "fine features," "fair-skinned," all of this language reinforces that light/white=good, dark/black=bad dichotomy. So the youth don't even have to necessarily encounter overt categorization to internalize these distinctions.

Oh I agree that there's nothing wrong. My mom also taught me that healthy hair is "good" hair.

I just remember when I was little and dudes who didn't have wavy or curly hair were struggling to make it happen with the wave cap and thick arse grease. Obsessed over it.

Exactly. It wasn't always so easy for me to love myself just the way I am. It was a process, but I was alway taught too that any kind of black is beautiful. My mother, who is originally from Liberia, West Africa, has had the most impact on how I see myself as not only a woman but a woman of color. People ASSume a lot of things about me and my family because I am half African and the things people say:mad:.....wheeeew knowledge certainly is the Torch!! If people could see my mother's side of the family they would be surprised...lol..you will see white people, light people, inbetween people, and everthing else...and its all beautiful.

The part of your quote I bolded...you said that! Yeeeeees mayam you did;)!

I remember when Oprah first began her talkshow and they were talking about colorisms. One thing that got me (and I was young, of course) was when this light skinned black woman with blondish-brown hair stood to talk about how blacks need to stop separating ourselves.

Well, what got me is that she made a point to say "yeah, I get treated a certain way because my skin is light...oh and this is my real hair and my eyes are really blue." And Oprah was nodding her head like "wow, really?" It wasn't like the woman just just stating the obvious--it almost seemed bragadocious. It's just funny to me when people want to say "don't separate...but I want to be on the record as pointing out my features that make me distinct from the average black person I encounter."

Colorism comes from all sides. Even those of us who are conscious about this may find ourselves guilty of it subconsciously, in some regard, if we don't challenge ourselves (and others) to do better.

I like that :)

Kids will pick up on any and everything, especially negative ideals that tend to be passed down. Darker images do tend to coincide with darker colors as was stated earlier, so it's not hard to see why people will willingly accept that darker skin color is associated with ugliness, imperfection, etc. I know many people don't think Grace Jones or Alec Wek are "pretty" but I find both of them to be gorgeous. But then again, beauty is in the eye of the beholder so let the tone wars continue :)

Alec Wek is gorgeous, but Grace Jones is scary (I think that it is the fade).

Alek Wok is beautiful.

Grace Jones is gorgeous. However, that photo gives her the David Bowie/alien vibe. I suddenly thought of her in "Boomerang." LOL.

Neither are "beautiful to be dark" but their skin and hair added to their appeal and impact.

LOL I love that Grace Jones has strong features, I think it makes her that more appealing.

The fade, the cigarette, the "muscular" chest and open padded shouldered suit. They were going for the unisex look. More like an alien invasion.

Exactly. I think that her features are nice, but that picture does make her intimidating, like she will kick your butt in a second, and I have never thought that the fade was a good look for any woman.

That was exactly what I thought of at first too! LOL. She was hilarious. And yes, that fade she was made to sport in the 80s never did her any favors in re: showing off her femininity...