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It's on Tuesday so tomorrow
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yes... And to the mom's of the IU girls, I am sorry for the emotional rollercoaster your girls are on. It is tough at any school for the most part, but IU is the craziest recruitment out there. What I can't understand is why the two un-housed sororities are not making plans to become housed so that all IU greeks get the same experience. |
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Each sister who is living out is charged a parlor fee that covers meals at the house and use of the house facilities. |
I am envisioning Regina George as that Rho Gamma. Even the initials match .....
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Bitching about IU recruitment on GC will do zero good so why not bitch to the people who are ultimately responsible, the Board of Trustees. You can send an email to all trustees at one time at bdot@indiana.edu and don't tell me they are powerless to change the system.
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KDCat, I am a housing corp board member for my chapter and I was about to say the same things.....all together ladies: Parlor fees. That is exactly what we do with some 20 members; we have a full house and a new member class initiated right now. Yes, we have to manage it and make sure our house is always full and the members understand we must have a full house to have live outs....but this is NOT brain surgery. We can offer many living options for many different member situations. This IU situation is reaching ridiculous levels now..... |
The IU PNMs got a document with 2012-13 PHA Chapter Financial Obligations. All but three of the housed sororities also list "Live-out charges - Dues, fees, parlor fees, etc.", which implies those sororities allow some actives to live out. So now I'm more confused than ever about the bed-quota system if at least 16 housed sororities allow actives to live out. Am I misunderstanding the Financial document?
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Yep. The Purdue chapters allow live outs if the house is full. Usually is because we use the RFM method (or whatever mits called) so most seniors live out. Our Panhel just raised total quota again so 10 houses have to do spring recruitment to pick up a few girls to meet it so we often need girls to live out. |
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A culture change like this has to be a decision that ALL the chapters make together. Either that, or one of the most exclusive chapters has to decide to make the change and show that they still have the close sisterhood. BadCat25 is right, the trustees of the university are the ones who need to change this. That way, the headquarters of the sororities can pretend they're aghast that their rights as independent organizations are being taken away (even though they will all be doing a Myposian Dance Of Joy) and avoid having alumnae or actives yelling at them. The problem is, from what everyone has posted, the university LIKES that the Greek system is such a mess since that keeps it from getting stronger. This is where it comes down to $$$. Parents, do as AXORushAdvisor did, and vote with your checkbook. Too bad it will take a couple thousand of you to make a dent. |
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2nd! And Dtjb, talk to the kids at Alabama. Pretty sure their rush is damn competitive, and they still have a system that functions. |
As I've stated before, this begins with a northern vs southern thing. For the most part, northern schools will have 20 chapters of 100 rather than 10 chapters of 200. IU of course takes it to the extreme.
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I have no clue how this got slanted to house corporations being an issue. If there are 100 beds in the house and 100 members or 300 members, there are ways to insure the house is filled. That argument holds no water.
The problem is that Greek life is very popular these days. So the number of PNMs goes up. Other schools have learned how to accomodate that - note the number of new Greek villages and the explosion of houses at Alabama, etc. Indiana refuses to adapt. That's the bottom line. Their President needs to step in if PH won't do it on their own. |
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I don't think I've seen anyone in this thread advocate for a system where every PNM gets what they want or even just finds a place. What I see is women who are struggling with a system that places a significantly lower percentage of PNMs than others. After days of debate, I still haven't heard a compelling explanation of why a system that works on almost every other campus won't work at IU. Lack of off-campus housing options adds an interesting complication, but the students who don't participate in Greek life (either by choice, because they just aren't a good fit for Greek life or because they were "victims" of IU's low quotas) seem to make it work. |
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Maybe this is the wrong time to bring this up but I've been thinking today about what adding 20-30 more women to my pledge class would have done to my experience. I'm sure it would've been mostly positive - more women to get to know, more diversity, etc. Then I started to think about all the logistics - risk management, planning events, etc. Even silly things like chapter meetings. Where would we put another 70-100 girls (if each pledge class was increased)? Would it be responsible to have our risk management chair and Exec board in charge of another 100 women? Some of the chapters at IU are already some of the largest chapters of their respective GLO - I just wonder if the current infrastructure of our chapters would be able to support a dramatic increase in membership. I guess it would be done over time but I think these are considerations that need to be made. I'd be lying if I didn't acknowledge that a lot of resistance to change at IU is because of the exclusivity factor of recruitment - if you happen to make it through the Games, you consider yourself a survivor and expect the same selection process of future pledge classes.
Like I said before, I know how heartbreaking this process is. It's not fair but I also don't know how much else can be done to expand the current size of chapters under a quota system. |
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So agree, I stated earlier...we have live outs and have had no problem keeping our house filled. The housing corp board has to manage it and make sure all of the numbers add up, etc. but as I said before, it is NOT brain surgery. |
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Why any woman who wants to be Greek would ever consider IU is beyond me. There are SO MANY excellent schools with strong Greek systems... Why in the world would you subject yourself to this? And that Rho Gamma better be reported. I cannot believe she would say something like that. Actually, I can. This is Indiana, a school I have really lost respect for over the past few years. (No offense to the few women on here from IU who recognize the problems at their school, but wow. What a mess.) |
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I...can't think of a single chapter for which that is true. |
It just makes no sense to me. Everyone wants every girl to get a bid? Where does that happen? Second, I'm defending the idea that something that is competitive is not easy and not always unfair. Does everyone get THE job? Does everyone get into pt school, or the graduate program they want? No-it's competitive, selective, and makes something more desire able and something special. If you want to read it as "I don't think your experience was special" then that's your choice. But it is real life. If all that matters is everyone gets a spot then girls have to go somewhere where they just sign up and get assigned a spot. If there are 2,000 girls and 2,000 spaces it still wouldn't happen bc moms are saying their daughters don't want the unhoused chapters bc they're not "good enough" and yet they want a place for everyone. What they are saying is they want every girl to get what they consider to be a "good house". Well, if they think it's a "good house", chances are so do lots of other girls and so it's competitive and harder to get in. If it wasn't would their daughters want to be in it so badly? If every freshman that decided they wanted to be an ABC, could easily just sign up and become one would it be coveted? I just don't get the mentality of "all girls should get in if they want". That's unrealistic and impossible anywhere for anything.
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Are all the Alabama housing costs subsidized by the university, fully supported by national, or do the current members bear the burden of the cost? Specifically questioning about the newly built houses.
Checking back through IU history via the internet and it seems that one of the larger 'housed' sororities didn't meet quota. There seem to be plenty of questions about the IU process. |
Looking in vain for "every girl should get a bid" quote from "everyone" . . .
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IU BOT
Thanks to whomever posted the IU Board of Trustees email address. Here is an excerpt of an email I just sent them.
I am sharing my daughter’s experience with you for one reason. Despite how impressed I’ve been by the KSB and the genuine friendliness and helpfulness of every person I’ve ever spoken with at IU I will share the following message with EVERY prospective young woman I can - DO NOT ENROLL AT IU-Bloomington if you think you MIGHT want to be in a sorority. The process is brutal and a crap shoot. Had I known how limited the number of bids are relative to girls going through recruitment I never would have encouraged my daughter to attend IU. I was not in a sorority but through research I’ve learned that IU’s recruitment process results in far more heartbreak than other other school with comparable PNMs. Is being in a sorority a right for every college girl? Of course not and you can have a wonderful college experience without being a sister (I’m proof of that!). However, what I do expect from a university is that it will implement processes and procedures that are designed to maximize the opportunities. Providing more sorority housing and changing current recruitment processes would be steps in the right direction. But, until I see evidence of this happening I will be a vocal “BEWARE” voice to any prospective female student. It may be too late for my daughter but I will do my best to alert others to the likely misery awaiting them at IU. P.S. And while it's not in my excerpt...my email does mention that my daughter is a TWO-TIME casualty of IU recruitment. Even with high grades, strong campus involvement and friends in sororities the process did not end differently this year. I am incredibly proud of my daughter for her resiliency and strength. She understands this isn't the end of the world and other opportunities are available. It's a shame though since other schools seem to have better processes. |
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Come on down any time and we can show you how logistics works. You don't have one person in charge of putting together events - you have a committee. Then you aren't dependent on just one person who could get sick the day before recruitment. You don't have formal at a tiny hotel or in the student union, you have it at a event center, the Fox Theater, or the country club like a benefit or a fundraiser. We don't drive places, we take a bus. We get it. You like exclusivity, and you like looking down your noses at people. (BTW - Texas A&M, U. Texas, The Ohio State, Penn State, Florida - are all bigger than IUB AND have flourishing Greek life AND they rank higher too.) |
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I am saying that it would be a large adjustment and that the logistics would be harder to overcome for a system that isn't used to such large chapters (I tend to think 150 women is pretty large) I think we already do many of things you just described (event centers, buses, committees, etc.) as well. I'm not saying it can't be done or it shouldn't be done. I'm just pointing out one little reason why suddenly switching to a quota system would be hard. And again, I'm not turning my nose up at anyone. I'm pointing out a popular opinion that has been raised in my time at IU. I do not condone that opinion nor do I claim to hold it. |
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The posts from Hoosierxgirl and Dtjb confirm what we know to be true. You guys at Indiana want it that way because you are elitist. "We survived, we are the chosen, we are going to perpetuate this system." As for large - I don't think any of the Indiana chapters are 200+, and total at Arizona is 220 with many chapters at 250+. We've adjusted quite well. There is nothing special about having chapter meetings at a facility. Trust me. It works very well in an on-campus room with all kinds of electronics/technology at the actives' fingertips. And we've learned how to develop our sisterhood, thank you. You could ask us for tips on how to make it work. When we started growing by leaps and bounds, we reached out - to each other on campus as well as to other chapters across the country (think Arkansas, Ole Miss) who are large and who make it work for them. I am appalled. Shame on you, Indiana actives. Please note I'm not singling out the two who've posted here. Further, it is the Chapter's responsibility to see that the facility is filled. NOT the House Corporation Board's responsibility! The Chapter needs to figure out how they are going to fill the facility and from the sound of it, that won't be a problem. |
"And the Rho Gamma who told her group that they should rank the unhoused chapters last because they have to take everyone should be ashamed of herself and be reported. NOW. As a Rho Gamma you should be impartial, you should not make blanket statements about how to rank, and you should not perpetuate falsehoods that “those chapters have to invite everyone back.” It’s just ridiculous, and NOT TRUE."
Said no Rho gamma ever. Sorry for the length of this-and I have never posted before, but I have a different perspective--as an Indiana grad who went through the system 25 years ago and did not receive a bid, as the mother of twins who went through recruitment two years ago--one received a bid and one went bidless, and as a mother of a current rhogam, (who has been in tears continually for the past week), I am here to tell you that regardless of who you are, what your current status is (PNM, active, rhogam, mom), this process is brutal for everyone. To moms whose hearts are breaking because this has been so difficult; I know how frustrated and angry you are--I lived it. But also know that there is not one current active who finds this anything but agonizing. They, like the PNM's have not eaten, have not slept and are absolutely disgusted by the process. To the poster that said that taking more members makes it less special? That chapters should be exclusive? You are dead wrong--most of these ladies would do anything to be able to make this system more inclusive. Comments such as this serve to only perpetuate the perception of "mean girls". There may indeed be some of those as well, but they do not represent the majority of women in houses. Regarding the unhoused chapters; I have never heard one negative comment from my daughter or any of her sisters, friends, or acquaintances. PNM's may be hearing that these houses are "less than" from each other, but they are NOT hearing it from current actives. In fact the Greek system has welcomed and supported the expansion--it can only strengthen the system. And as far as a rhogam encouraging PNMs to rank unhoused chapters higher because they "take everyone"? I would carefully question the PNM who thinks she may have heard that comment. Based on what my daughter has said, and the absolute commitment of these young women to provide support and counsel to PNM's, it is much more likely that this was a comment generated from assumptions because a rhogam encouraged her group to not rank by perceived reputation. Lastly, IU admissions has no control over the current system, nor does the administration, the board of trustees or the dean of students. Short of removing sororities from campus, their hands are tied. I know this because I am also an IU "employee". Believe me, we are bracing for unhappy students and parents, and are very, very tired of the way things are done. The only people that can change this is panhel, individual nationals and NPC. |
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"It must not be all that special to be in a house in Alabama." Nooo, not everyone gets a bid in Alabama either, but they recognize that even their most coveted houses (by whatever standard you want to use) can, and do, take more women they want by using the same quota that the other chapters do. Is the system at Alabama still exclusive? Yes; we wouldn't have as many threads about southern recruitments, teas, letters of rec., etc... if just anyone could strut into their system. |
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And just because it is different then your experience does not mean it could not be as good or better. |
Hoosierxgirl, I am sorry you have such a parochial view of the world that you haven't a clue how to manage alternate logistics or to even reach out to others who do. It's an amazingly useful life skill.
Tellingly and sadly, the Hoosier rationalizations are just that -- rationalizations -- not compelling reasons. It's very small thinking. |
Rhomom -- you note that the actives are disgusted with the process. The good news is that they are the ones with the power to change it.
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