I firmly believe that how people's posts come off the first time is how they were intended. As humans we attempt to come back to correct ourselves so the viewpoints expressed can be in line with our nonprejudiced opinions of ourselves. :)

You said that antidiscriminatory claims for organizations are stupid, which is interesting in and of itself since this discussion wasn't just about denying membership to people who wore Izod versus Ralph Lauren (that stuff was mentioned but it wasn't the context of every post). You then said that an Obama supporter wouldn't fit in with your chapter, which was apparently a race correlation for you because you not-so-randomly inserted your tidbit about whites in BGLOs. And, btw, that was an intentionally broad comparison that you made.

Yeah...that post and the resulting discussion happened exactly as they were meant to happen. No backpedaling.

Right, thats what I meant.

If there won't be a black pledge because it can't happen then that is systematic... and that is racism. I'm not trying to call you out because I believe that organizations should be allowed to take whoever they want, but that doesn't make it anything other than racism when you deny a black guy membership only because hes black.

With all due respect, I take exception with the bolded statement. I happen to know more than a few gentleman of Kappa Alpha Order and I seriously doubt that anyone who has met them would ever consider them racists.

Which chapters are you talking about here?

Naming specific chapters will just get people in - pardon my crassness - some sort of a pissing match. "Shut up." "No, you shut up." So suffice to say that all of the KAs *I* happen to know come from chapters that are located in the South. Including - but not limited to - more than a few Southeastern Conference (SEC) institutions of higher learning. And over different generations as well.

It is quite possible that they happen to be the only members of their chapters that are not racists. However, I find it hard to believe that is the case.

Thank You, 33girl for the correction, but I'm going to add to the distinct differences between:

1) Kappa Alpha Order, whose spiritual (not actual) founder is Robert E. Lee. Almost all of its chapters are in the South and it was founded after

2) Kappa Alpha Society, which only has a few chapters (I think that they are all out east), but it has the distinction of being one of the first fraternities ever founded.
I found out about KA Society by reading Baird's years ago. :)

I am reminded why PhiGam is alright with me. :)

Generally speaking, it may only take a limited number of members to vote "no" to deny a bid to a rushee. In some chapters, it might be just one no vote. And some chapters may require a vote (approval) on each pledge prior to initiation. Again, this number needed to "blackball" (vote no and deny membership) may be low here as well.

That is impressive. I wish I could say the same. I do not have the power to turn them into an "ism", but I do have some prejudices.

Well, Kappa Alpha Order at Maryland definitely does not fit your description. Then again, Maryland is not the South. Of the first 3 KAs I met, one was African-American, one was Asian-American, and one was Jewish. I wonder what going to their convention is like...

That would be uncomfortable.

Because you can read my mind and tell me exactly what I intended. And yes, I have certain prejudices, but race is not one of them. Don't even think about trying to me how I feel about certain things because you do not know me. You do not know how my organization is run. I do not tell you how to run yours, therefore you do not tell me how to run mine. I do not see what my chapter of my organization not taking an Obama supporter has to with race. An Obama supporter can white, black or any other color. And if being an obama supporter makes this race correlated then you would seem to be saying that only black people support obama and all black people support obama. The fact that I do not care for Obama has nothing to do with his race.

I can read what your mind led you to type and deduce, accordingly.

phigam, you must have me confused with someone else cuz I don't know what in the heck you're talking about :) I was asking DST about her post, I haven't ever commented on any of your posts - til now.

My son is in the Kappa Alpha Order and he isn't racist and never has been. He has too many friends that are African American and too many relatives that are hispanic to be so. You are grossly over generalizing and it is not only rude, but also not acting like a gentleman (which you proclaim you are - vehemently).

Didn't your mother teach you that if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all? That is the southern way.