Then what is the point of having a sisterly bond? If you are willing to throw aside the women you chose to be sisters for ones you now consider to be better, what does that say about your sisterhood? I'd say that's a pretty bad statement.

This whole thread bothers me because I have a sister who was born without her arm from just below the elbow down. It is the LAST thing I think about when I think about her. However it is the FIRST thing new people see when they meet her. Should she be hidden if she could maybe put off some PNMs? Does it matter that she competes and wins beauty pageants? She's gorgeous, but only has one hand. She's a great rusher, but she only has one hand. Some PNMS will NOT be able to get past that.

No way in hell would I shove her in the closet or in the kitchen or whatever just because some PNMs would make stupid judgements because of it.

-And yes being heavy is comparable. Sometimes that's just what size you are-

Another question... if you were the chapter in this situation (competitive Greek school) and you had a National Consultant telling you to "create this image" during recruitment, would you do it? Would you risk hurting the sisters you have to keep your chapter open, or would you take the risks of not and try to find another way to expand your numbers? (Knowing that you might not be successful either way and it could mean the end of your chapter... )

Also - think about weighing the risk of going against what your NO is telling you to do. You are a group of 18 - 22 year old (on average) women who are being told that if you want your chapter to survive, this is what you'll do. How many chapters can look a National Officer in the face and refuse?

If you collected a random group of people you would expect them to cluster around average traits.

Assuming that average is not overweight enough to be "fat," you would expect most groups of girls to not be fat as an aggregate.

Whenever you have a group that significantly deviates from the norm, there is something going on. The larger the deviation the more it makes you wonder. The larger the deviation the more consequences that there are, both good and bad.

If you have a group with a collective GPA of 4.0, you know that people have been selecting for GPA or else some odd social drift has occurred thats resulted in that configuration.

However, after a while that can become self selecting. People with a very high GPA may be attracted to that group out of comfort and people with a lower GPA might feel like the group would be a bad fit for them.

So even though a 4.0 GPA is considered desirable trait, it could actually limit the group's size, because it doesn't reflect the population enough.

The same thing is going to happen if the percentage of girls in the chapter that are overweight enough to be seen as overweight start be out of proportion to the population the chapter is attempting to recruit from.

People are drawn to similarity.

Thats just the way it is.

It's so interesting to talk about stuff like this because you realize how different things are from campus to campus. I'm used to campuses where reputation changes, if they happen at all, take place over a long time. So if you were known as "the fat sorority" hiding the girls during rush wouldn't help.

I'm never going to favor cutting solely on appearance, I don't think (but again, maybe for freak show girl, I'm reserving judgment.), so I can't get behind "better to not give her a bid." But I think one of the reasons why we hear more about this kind of stuff from struggling chapters is that at some chapters the women under discussion never would have gotten bids to begin with.

Does this mean the chapters who cut them have a more authentic sisterhood because they are willing to treat all members the same or a sisterhood more based on appearance because they don't let less attractive people join?

Or are they all the same in attitude but the ones who cut the less beautiful are ultimately more successful at living it out? (which I think is what I most fear.)

Why would having exceptional sisters prevent more sisters from joining the chapter? In my experience, it is only the sisters who are not committed or that do not live up to their expectations that prevent other women from joining, not the sisters who may be carrying a bit of extra weight...:confused:

Uh, no.

What your example is missing is that the groups actively discriminate based on certain traits.

If we were talking about the PNMs self-selecting where they went, we might get your results over time for the reason of comfort in similarity, but not if there's active discrimination. And there is.

The fat girls end up in one group (if they do) not simply because people are drawn to similarity but because they are actively excluded other places.

Please don't blast me for this, but are you saying that your chapter closed?

Do you think it served the sisterhood better not to exist on that campus than it would have to recruited differently?

Ack . . I must not have been clear in my post. I said that after you have built a population profile it become self selecting.

Active selection is discrimination by the group. However, once a group reflects a certain profile it will attract like members and welcome them.

I wouldn't tell anyone who wanted to that they couldn't rush, but I do think weight is a little different in the sense that it gets to be a group identity as the fat group, or so people fear. It seems really unlikely that there'd be a similar fear in your sister's case.

I judge from past posts in different forums.

You are my sister and I should try to be respectful, but since what you said really offended me, I don't care. I am thankful that the women who are on our executive board are of different sizes, shapes, hair color, eye color, etc. They are unique in their own ways when it comes to looks. I would hope that NONE of them share the same opinion you have.

I am SO thankful that my chapter sisters weren't shallow. We've always accepted anyone as long as they were a fit to the chapter. Maybe there were a few here and there who were definately shallow, but for the most part everyone was welcomed.

If someone, skinny or plus size, had an odd personality that turned everyone off (and I mean EVERYONE because I've known at least one person from every sorority I've ever met that has been like this) then I can see finding something in the back for them to do. But don't tell them. There is no need for hurt feelings. These women are your SISTERS. You are supposed to have a bond with them whether you like them or not. And anyone who feels otherwise should be ashamed of themselves.

Yes -- we closed.

Yes -- I think ZTA is better for being off Ole Miss' campus than to be beating our heads against a brick wall trying to change a stereotype we got years before I ever arrived on campus.

We tried several DIFFERENT recruiting methods suggested to us by national consultants. In the end, all of us agreed that the stereotype was so huge that we could never overcome it.

Yes, I think we were better off keeping our sisterhood true than if we had just gotten ANYONE to join. After all, doesn't that defeat the purpose of having our special groups?

Because weird or freak isn't just as much of an "identity?"
A heavy girl no more makes her entire chapter seem heavy than my pledge sister made our chapter all "freaks." (A term I use here with extreme disgust)

I don't think this is exactly it. It's not that authentic a process.

The groups all actually value the same traits in new members for the most part, but there are artificial pressures on the groups like quota and chapter total.

If you apply that thinking, then those same people would think that that was the "armless" peoples' house, just because one sister happened to have a physical disability. Whatever way you look at it, it's the same ignorance and shallow thinking.