I am not sure that this post will be read since the thread is old as dirt, not sure how/why it got ressurrected but I am goin to speak my mind anyway....

Many have stated that they have a problem with M.I.P. for various reasons be it they want people to get their a$$es kicked, they believe the quality of new members has dropped, it has caused divisiveness, Neos don't know anything about the orgs., etc... So what is being done about it?

I believe there is a difference between pledging and hazing, and NO the Iota's legal bias should not be discredited because if the national orgs disregarded the hazing laws there would no longer be an XYZ fraternity/sorority. Is there not a way that M.I.P. can be molded to ensure that new members know ALL the information they are supposed to, both national and chapter history, traditions, etc?

And I do feel BGLO's sometimes miss out on potential great members due to the hazing reputations that they have. One not wanting to be subjected to humiliation, beatings, and the like is not a form of snobbery but self respect. It is my opinion (and notice I say opinion) any self respecting person would not let themselves get their a$$ beat so they can be "made", nor should any org that strives for the excellence that they claim desire a member that is so quick to sacrifice their integrity.

From reading this entire thread, I think a clarification between pledging and hazing needs to be made. And the reality maybe that there can't be a "standard" process throughout the country due to state, local, and university hazing laws. That is not to say that important information, traditions, songs, etc. cannot be learned, but a new method of delivery may need to be sought out.

And you shouldn't. Signing a name and writing a check - alone - don't go a long way in helping the organization to achieve its long term goals. Then again, neither does taking a beating. Respect should be EARNED by years of intense service-related activities and leadership, perhaps even some non-violent and productive pledging activities along these same lines. Afterall, who could you possibly respect more - inactive members whose only claim to fame is that they withstood some form of 'hazing' or members who helped write civil rights legislation and develop health care education services for the elderly? The YMCA, etc. are great places to commit your time for a time, I agree, but the duties owed to these organizations we are discussing are life long and there is an obligation to do more than just show up - that is a major difference.

goldencorn, no matter where you go and no matter what organization you join - no matter how and no matter at what level, there will be those who talk more than they actually perform. So long as you do the WORK of your organization, carry yourself as your FOUNDERS envisioned, avoid unnecessary drama in your life, and always put GOD first, then what man or woman can stand against you?

Paper
 

I understand that paper greeks are not respected by greeks that were pledged. But, they can't do it on their own. What about the people that allow this to happen. Pledging is not for everyone, but people still want to join a greek organization. So, I give my hats off to them, because they already know that they would be in over their heads.

before i sift through all these posts...

what the hell does MIP mean?

i'm shelterrrrrred....

hellllp....

i wanna know what you're talking about

edit...what's a paper greek?

ok here's my input on the topic. If you wanna join a house that doesnt make you pledge...Fine...its the overall status of the house that will suffer in the end. We all know a check can't replace a solid pledgeship. But that's your decision.

here's what really steams me sorta in relation to this...Colonies that "have it made" when they return to a campus.

IE-
Here at IU, there are fraternities living in houses that are owned by the nationals of other GLO's that got kicked off campus in recent years.

Skulls live in Theta Chi's old house
Phi Sigs live in Phi Delta Theta's old house
DKE lives in Sig Ep's old house.

I'm in Phi Sigs right now. we recolonized in 2001 with NOTHING. 5 guys or so. After LESS THAN 4 YEARS, we are already the largest Phi Sig chapter in the nation, we've won every single national award, we're the 3rd highest GPA on campus, we had more people sign with us this fall than any other house on this HUGE campus and from what many people tell me, we're easily top 5 socially at Indiana. That could ALL come to an end in 2 years. Why? Chapters without houses don't survive on a campus as large as ours.

We dont own a house at IU. SAM got kicked off, we signed a 2 year lease on their house. That lease was up and moved into Delta Chi's old house only before IU yanked it from us and GAVE it to Beta Theta Pi's colony a year later. Luckily for US, phi delt got kicked off last year and we signed a 2 year lease on their house. But they get it back when they recolonize in 2 years.

Everything our chapter has accomplished....has been through hard work and some luck. Our business savy presidents have negotiated deals somehow every year to ensure housing for our 70 or so live-ins. We've had NO help from our nationals. everything we have, we did oursevles. And we're damn proud of it. But at our school, if you dont have a house, you die out as a fraternity.

Theta Chi recolonized this year, and next year they get their old house back. Sending a very successful Skulls fraternity to the streets (and if they dont find housing, to their demise). Same goes with the DKE chapter once Sig Ep returns next year.

The politics of it all REALLY sucks. These Theta Chi's, Phi Delts, and Sig Ep COLONIES that have proven NOTHING in the Greek system but sign a piece of paper at a "recolonization stand" outside their dorms get to move into these houses at the expense of 3 other SUCCESSFUL fraternities that have everything they do because they earned it.

There was a joke going around our house last year that our entire house would sign up for the Phi Delt colony just so we could keep the house. we would all 're-educate' ourselves as Phi Delts, etc, etc. Of course we would never do it because we love and are Phi Sigma Kappa, but i know we all considered it in the back of our minds at one point just so we didnt have to give up everything we've accomplished on campus.

:D

What politics? The houses are owned by them. If they choose not to renew the lease and instead give it back to their chapter, it's their perogative.

Getting a charter is not easy. By the way, read about BMP for SigEp. That is what the SigEp colonies will have to implement. It's not easy at all.

If those groups were SO successful, then why did they get kicked off of campus? They hurt themselves, no one else hurt them.

As for the lease issue, moe.ron has that covered above. Those groups own the house. They're entitled to it. They were doing a FAVOR to those fraternities by letting them lease the house and live there, especially if you said a fraternity can't make it without a house.

It's their house. They and their alumni paid quite a bit of money for it, why should they allow some other group to go on living there?

If houses are such an issue, get together a group of alumni and contact your HQ about building on. Stop sponging off of someone else's house and build your own.

You make it sound like you and the other fraternities are ENTITLED to live in these other houses. You're not. They're not yours. It's like any other lease.

And if you've accomplished so much, how much would it say about the real strength of your group if you let this bring you down?